[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Almost every commercial load on the road network is secured by straps to the manufacturers anchor points. HGV, flatbeds  etc. From huge steel bars and tubes to washing machines and milk- how do you think this transport industry secure their goods in transit? Our local farms have 40ft trailers piled high with tonnes of straw bales secured only by straps fixed to anchor points. Our council has a 1000ltr IBC strapped to the back of a transit flatbed which they go round watering flower beds with in summer.
Oh, but hang on, I want to secure a load in a purpose made vehicle, using purpose made anchor points via purpose made straps, all within the purpose made size and weight capacities of the purpose made vehicle and suddenly it becomes a un-insurable death trap?🤣

[CleanClear]

van bulkheads are not that strong.

Yes they are. They're every bit as strong as four bolts.

[Simon Trapani]

Almost every commercial load on the road network is secured by straps to the manufacturers anchor points. HGV, flatbeds  etc. From huge steel bars and tubes to washing machines and milk- how do you think this transport industry secure their goods in transit? Our local farms have 40ft trailers piled high with tonnes of straw bales secured only by straps fixed to anchor points. Our council has a 1000ltr IBC strapped to the back of a transit flatbed which they go round watering flower beds with in summer.
Oh, but hang on, I want to secure a load in a purpose made vehicle, using purpose made anchor points via purpose made straps, all within the purpose made size and weight capacities of the purpose made vehicle and suddenly it becomes a un-insurable death trap?🤣

I'm with Alexander Swan.  I agree totally that we get ripped off with modified van insurance & there is limited choice but I'm not going to chance it. You have a great case but if it went all the way to court a judge may not agree. Just not worth taking the risk for an extra couple of hundred quid a year. It's not your opinion that matters, it's the police, insurance company & the courts.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Almost every commercial load on the road network is secured by straps to the manufacturers anchor points. HGV, flatbeds  etc. From huge steel bars and tubes to washing machines and milk- how do you think this transport industry secure their goods in transit? Our local farms have 40ft trailers piled high with tonnes of straw bales secured only by straps fixed to anchor points. Our council has a 1000ltr IBC strapped to the back of a transit flatbed which they go round watering flower beds with in summer.
Oh, but hang on, I want to secure a load in a purpose made vehicle, using purpose made anchor points via purpose made straps, all within the purpose made size and weight capacities of the purpose made vehicle and suddenly it becomes a un-insurable death trap?🤣

I'm with Alexander Swan.  I agree totally that we get ripped off with modified van insurance & there is limited choice but I'm not going to chance it. You have a great case but if it went all the way to court a judge may not agree. Just not worth taking the risk for an extra couple of hundred quid a year. It's not your opinion that matters, it's the police, insurance company & the courts.

That's the point, you don't have any choice (without risk) as you have chosen to modify your vehicle and not use what is supplied  by the manufacturer. You have something that has to be declared as you have chosen something that is out with the  standard, purpose made system that the manufacturer has designed, tested and supplied- which, is the "standard" that all insurance underwriters use and rely on. This is why the question is asked- "has your vehicle been modified in any way" . Yours has but mine hasn't. Thus.... unless specifically requested or contained within a "list of assumptions" the vehicle is fully insured- it cannot be anything other. There is nothing to declare and nothing held back that has been requested therefore there is nothing to be "tested"?

[Simon Trapani]

But what if you're wrong & they don't see it that way? Is it worth taking the chance?

I agree it's a con though. Both of ours are Pure Freedom supply only delivery systems bolted in by local garage. Stainless steel cages.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

But what if you're wrong & they don't see it that way? Is it worth taking the chance?

I agree it's a con though. Both of ours are Pure Freedom supply only delivery systems bolted in by local garage. Stainless steel cages.

If they don't see what, which way?
Unless there is a requirement to inform the insurance company of every load that you intend to carry?

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

IMO you are more risk of the insurance company having issue with a local garage bolting your tank in.... come claim time. Can't really argue with the standard, manufacturer designed, tested and supplied system.... but your local garage?

Standard specification Vs local garage  untested, modified vehicle? It's more plausible they could argue against the expertise, competence, design, test and suitability of both the supplier and installer IMO. That's the bigger "get out" opportunity.

[Don Kee]

How do HGV’s get away with carrying a load of full IBC’s?
I assume they’re not bolted to the chassis of the container when being carted half way across Europe?


Tank cage bolted to floor of van = modification = declare to insurance (this is what I have)

Tank rachet strapped to loading points = no modification = no need to declare.

The issue of which is safest is another debate.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

How do HGV’s get away with carrying a load of full IBC’s?
I assume they’re not bolted to the chassis of the container when being carted half way across Europe?


Tank cage bolted to floor of van = modification = declare to insurance (this is what I have)

Tank rachet strapped to loading points = no modification = no need to declare.

The issue of which is safest is another debate.

At least someone understands!!😄👍

[Splash & dash]

Almost every commercial load on the road network is secured by straps to the manufacturers anchor points. HGV, flatbeds  etc. From huge steel bars and tubes to washing machines and milk- how do you think this transport industry secure their goods in transit? Our local farms have 40ft trailers piled high with tonnes of straw bales secured only by straps fixed to anchor points. Our council has a 1000ltr IBC strapped to the back of a transit flatbed which they go round watering flower beds with in summer.
Oh, but hang on, I want to secure a load in a purpose made vehicle, using purpose made anchor points via purpose made straps, all within the purpose made size and weight capacities of the purpose made vehicle and suddenly it becomes a un-insurable death trap?🤣

I'm with Alexander Swan.  I agree totally that we get ripped off with modified van insurance & there is limited choice but I'm not going to chance it. You have a great case but if it went all the way to court a judge may not agree. Just not worth taking the risk for an extra couple of hundred quid a year. It's not your opinion that matters, it's the police, insurance company & the courts.

That's the point, you don't have any choice (without risk) as you have chosen to modify your vehicle and not use what is supplied  by the manufacturer. You have something that has to be declared as you have chosen something that is out with the  standard, purpose made system that the manufacturer has designed, tested and supplied- which, is the "standard" that all insurance underwriters use and rely on. This is why the question is asked- "has your vehicle been modified in any way" . Yours has but mine hasn't. Thus.... unless specifically requested or contained within a "list of assumptions" the vehicle is fully insured- it cannot be anything other. There is nothing to declare and nothing held back that has been requested therefore there is nothing to be "tested"?

If what you are saying is right why will some insurance companies refuse to insure a vehicle with a tank held in with ratchet straps???  Simple answer is that the points in the van are not load rated , this is why most insurance company’s used to ask for an engineers report as to the fixing of the tank , there were very few companies that would insure you when I started wfp  evan with the report , I think it’s a lot easier now , but there was that lad who was killed a couple of years ago who had a small tank strapped into the van he was involved in a low speed crash the tank mounting points gave way and he was crushed to death , if you doubt this google it it’s there for all to read , or at least it was at the time , if you have a 400 ltr tank in a van involved in a head on accidental 30 mph  do you know how many tones force that equates to ??  Again try looking it up and then tell me that your ratchet strapped tank will be fine

[Slacky]

HGV and farm trailer fixings are many times stronger and more robust than tin hooks on a transit van.

[Splash & dash]

How do HGV’s get away with carrying a load of full IBC’s?
I assume they’re not bolted to the chassis of the container when being carted half way across Europe?


Tank cage bolted to floor of van = modification = declare to insurance (this is what I have)

Tank rachet strapped to loading points = no modification = no need to declare.

The issue of which is safest is another debate.

At least someone understands!!😄👍

It’s not quite that simple , should you be involved in an accident and someone it seriously injured or killed you will find yourself in court being prosecuted by the police and vosa for driving a vehicle with an insecure load  , Ime in the Fireservice and had to go to court to give evidence in a case where a guy was killed in a van due to an insecure load moving that was ratchet strapped in it wasn’t a water tank but a steel rsj  the insurance company never did pay out for his death due to the fact that vosa declared  it  unsafe , they did however lay out to the 3 rd party he hit . The fixings in van floors arnt designed for the loading of a water tank in an accident , they are there to stop things moving about during transit .

[Don Kee]

HGV and farm trailer fixings are many times stronger and more robust than tin hooks on a transit van.

Ok but at the risk of repeating what has been said numerous times but which seems to be hard to grasp for some...

The question of safety isn’t what’s being argued here but rather whether you are covered by your insurance.
I used to example of a HGV so show that you can be covered without having to “bolt” stuff down, I wasn’t comparing the strength of fixings and which is safer.

To use a ‘Toshism’, you’re arguing a Strawman mate.


Edit - just to add, my tank is bolted down to the floor. I employ and I believe it’s safer and it’s not worth the risk. I also pay extra for it.

[Slacky]

Call it what you want, who cares.

[Don Kee]

Call it what you want, who cares.

You felt compelled to post about it, so I could probably assume you do maybe?

[Slacky]

What I meant was, I don't care whats it called. A Toshism, a straw man, whatever...

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

HGV and farm trailer fixings are many times stronger and more robust than tin hooks on a transit van.

Ok but at the risk of repeating what has been said numerous times but which seems to be hard to grasp for some...

The question of safety isn’t what’s being argued here but rather whether you are covered by your insurance.
I used to example of a HGV so show that you can be covered without having to “bolt” stuff down, I wasn’t comparing the strength of fixings and which is safer.

To use a ‘Toshism’, you’re arguing a Strawman mate.


Edit - just to add, my tank is bolted down to the floor. I employ and I believe it’s safer and it’s not worth the risk. I also pay extra for it.

Do you think if I say the same thing a few more times the penny might drop?😄

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

HGV and farm trailer fixings are many times stronger and more robust than tin hooks on a transit van.

That's because they both have MUCH higher payload ratings than berlingos and transits.

[Slacky]

Im getting the feeling there's definitely a 'cabin fever' element for you lot that have holed up with your drinks cabinet the last few days.

[NWH]

You are not carrying something like a pallet of bricks you are fixing the water tank into the van for  use every day of the week,I’ve had this explained to me by insurance companies.
If you are transporting something heavy within the weight capacity of the van happy days,you have a daily fixture in your van if it went to court you’d lose.
The ratchet strap points are for securing a load whilst for example you move heavy equipment to a site or a pallet of bricks,if you strap a tank down for everyday use it’s a modification or classed as one or would be if as said goes to court.