[nathankaye]

I for one think hot water has its place in our line of work.   Without Hot water, ones have mentioned how chemicals can assist in certain cleaning scenarios.

However, im still not understanding how cold and hot water with the same tds can dry with one leaving spots whilst the other doesnt.  Let the debate without petty name calling begin .

What are your views for or against Hot or cold etc

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Let's talk about something that's been less discussed in the past.  How about Brexit?

[Stoots]

This one has been done hasn't it.

I've never used hot water all day.

Ive used an immersion over night to stop things freezing.

I have no problems with cold but I can't say hand on heart hot isn't better because I've never tried it.

That being said there's no way a diesel heater makes economical sense.

£15 a week in diesel plus the cost of maintaining and servicing not to mention buying can't be worth it.

It's not something I'm interested in.

I mean electric reels and extreme poles make a difference but they are 600 quid not 6 grand.

[Jonny 87]

My one and only post on this thread, as I just want to take the conversation away from P@fs heater thread,

From my experience of using warm water, cold water, hot water by every different method out there.......

I find hot water gives me less issues. Of course hot water with the same tds as cold water will dry the exact same, but it’s in the cleaning.

I can now clean extremely quickly with near perfect results. Before, if I cleaned this quick, I would have the odd spot or two.

My reasoning on this is that hot water dissolves the dirt quicker and rinses off the glass quicker, ie it flushes the dirt away faster than cold water, meaning I can also work Faster.

Hot water also has the added benefit of drying quicker. Even In winter the windows I clean are dry by the time I’ve wrote my payment cards up. That means less time for pollutants to stick to the wet droplets in breezy days.

Can cold water get the same results as hot? Of course it can. The benefit of hot for me is the speed that i can clean at, the hoses being much more manageable, the heat radiating through the hose and pole keeping my hands warm, and the selling point. When you tell Customers or even show them the system they are all very impressed. Would that mean they will Gladly accept a few £ increase next year because their window cleaner uses a fancy hot system? You decide.

I had money that I was happy to invest back into the business, and now this heater will last me years and years at the cost of about £5 per day.

Again, this is all my personal Experience, for anyone looking into a heater like the 9kw Grippatank setup that I’ve got.

Ta ta for now. 

[AuRavelling79]

For me it's not either/or. it's "as and when."

When a dishwasher washes dishes the water is heated for cleaning efficiency.
When you wash up by hand you use hot water that you can put your hands in.
When you wash your clothes 40 degrees is the economical cycle bearing in mind you don't want to "boil the colour out" or mis-shape clothes..

Intuitively, with windows it is similar. You don't want it so hot you crack glass, remove paint/putty over time - you want it hotter on first cleans and birds' muck soiled windows. You want it less hot for repeat cleans.

So I believe that Hot water with a variable temperature is a wise choice to have for those that clean a lot of first cleans, soiled gutters and soffits and conny roofs. I believe that even general repeat 8 weekly clean will derive some benefit from it.

For me - I only do first cleans with a new customer. I do a couple of schools which are like first cleans too. So for me I use an immersion heater and when I have these jobs I heat water higher, when on repeats and general working I have it at about 40 degrees in the tank at the start of the day.

I don't use it in the warmth of summer but from October until April it is usually on overnight.
Supple hoses are a bonus.

[nathankaye]

My one and only post on this thread, as I just want to take the conversation away from P@fs heater

Ta ta for now. 

Hence why I started this thread, to take the "heat" away from further spoiling P&F's thread

[M & C Window Cleaning]

There is no doubt im my mind that for some of us it does a better job than cold.
However, I believe that depends on our work.
I work inland away from the coast. The windows I clean never get covered in the kind of grime that needs it and I physically couldnt work faster than I do with cold water without knocking myself out anyway.
Yes I prefer working with it on the coldest days and it keeps my kit working on the few days a year when it stays just below freezing all day. I can also feel the difference on the glass, But quicker? and a better finish? Not for me.

[dazmond]

i agree with jonny...hot water gets the job done to a high standard faster with less problems,not that you cant get the same results with cold water but itll take longer....and of course its nicer to work with,better flow in the colder months,no freezing issues and warm more manageable hose......

....but having water TOO hot(like NWH)has his then its just crazy.......he has even cracked glass in the summer and another pane the other day... ....

[Richard Groves]

My one and only post on this thread, as I just want to take the conversation away from P@fs heater thread,

From my experience of using warm water, cold water, hot water by every different method out there.......

I find hot water gives me less issues. Of course hot water with the same tds as cold water will dry the exact same, but it’s in the cleaning.

I can now clean extremely quickly with near perfect results. Before, if I cleaned this quick, I would have the odd spot or two.

My reasoning on this is that hot water dissolves the dirt quicker and rinses off the glass quicker, ie it flushes the dirt away faster than cold water, meaning I can also work Faster.

Hot water also has the added benefit of drying quicker. Even In winter the windows I clean are dry by the time I’ve wrote my payment cards up. That means less time for pollutants to stick to the wet droplets in breezy days.

Can cold water get the same results as hot? Of course it can. The benefit of hot for me is the speed that i can clean at, the hoses being much more manageable, the heat radiating through the hose and pole keeping my hands warm, and the selling point. When you tell Customers or even show them the system they are all very impressed. Would that mean they will Gladly accept a few £ increase next year because their window cleaner uses a fancy hot system? You decide.

I had money that I was happy to invest back into the business, and now this heater will last me years and years at the cost of about £5 per day.

Again, this is all my personal Experience, for anyone looking into a heater like the 9kw Grippatank setup that I’ve got.

Ta ta for now. 

I'm not a hot water user at present. But this is the best reply I've read on this subject. I'm doubtful I'd ever be prepared to invest in a diesel one but I don't think anyone can dispute that hot water has advantages.  In my next van and set up I may consider an immersion though.

[Dry Clean]

My one and only post on this thread, as I just want to take the conversation away from P@fs heater thread,

From my experience of using warm water, cold water, hot water by every different method out there.......

I find hot water gives me less issues. Of course hot water with the same tds as cold water will dry the exact same, but it’s in the cleaning.

I can now clean extremely quickly with near perfect results. Before, if I cleaned this quick, I would have the odd spot or two.

My reasoning on this is that hot water dissolves the dirt quicker and rinses off the glass quicker, ie it flushes the dirt away faster than cold water, meaning I can also work Faster.

Hot water also has the added benefit of drying quicker. Even In winter the windows I clean are dry by the time I’ve wrote my payment cards up. That means less time for pollutants to stick to the wet droplets in breezy days.

Can cold water get the same results as hot? Of course it can. The benefit of hot for me is the speed that i can clean at, the hoses being much more manageable, the heat radiating through the hose and pole keeping my hands warm, and the selling point. When you tell Customers or even show them the system they are all very impressed. Would that mean they will Gladly accept a few £ increase next year because their window cleaner uses a fancy hot system? You decide.

I had money that I was happy to invest back into the business, and now this heater will last me years and years at the cost of about £5 per day.

Again, this is all my personal Experience, for anyone looking into a heater like the 9kw Grippatank setup that I’ve got.

Ta ta for now. 

I'm not a hot water user at present. But this is the best reply I've read on this subject. I'm doubtful I'd ever be prepared to invest in a diesel one but I don't think anyone can dispute that hot water has advantages.  In my next van and set up I may consider an immersion though.
[/quote
He said the exact about Vision and if a PPB machine was cheap enough it would be next to get the same review, anybody can wibbled on about speed when they don't need to prove it.

[NWH]

If and when you use hot water the cost after the purchase is minimal,any extra diesel cost will soon fade into insignificance because of the benefits you’ll get.
The best test is to clean a very dirty roof or plastic-wooden cladding with it then decide,the cleaning of windows side of it is only 1 bonus.

[NWH]

As for work by the sea it’s must imo.

[Richard iSparkle]

im very interested in this discussion.

we had a hot water LPG system when we started and it was nothing but hassle. always running low on LPG.. only certain garages sold it. and it just not working at times

we didn't notice any improvement in cleaning with it and we ended up just not using it ever

but anything that will reduce the amount of call backs we get has to be a good thing.. so i am interested to see what people are saying..

 especially the big players with staff...

[NWH]

The thing is it’s so easy with cold water that’s why you’ll get the sceptics all you need is a tank of water a pump-reel and pole away you go,there’s more to getting a hot setup cost etc but you get more benefits.
I found you can get away with cold on a lot of jobs but as I’ve said before check from inside especially this time of the year on a nice bright day around lunchtime.

[Dry Clean]

I'v been WFP for over 13 years and I can remember hearing this very same rubbish from traditional guys back when I started, if you're getting spotting, dirty runs or anything else left on the glass then you're doing something wrong ,  like Iv said before the only thing its possible for hot to improve on is your speed and believe me if it was possible to prove that it was quicker you would have more than one video on youtube showing it.
With the exception of poor old NWH ( god help him ) this is nothing more than guys  inventing problems so that they can have an excuse to buy the latest gadget, the constant harping on about it being a game changer is just to kid themselves that they haven't been foolish.

[Slacky]

the constant harping on about it being a game changer is just to kid themselves that they haven't been foolish.

Which, coincidentally, or perhaps ironically, is exactly what you do.

You're the biggest and most frequent naysayer and whiner on this side of the forum.

[Smudger]

I'v been WFP for over 13 years and I can remember hearing this very same rubbish from traditional guys back when I started, if you're getting spotting, dirty runs or anything else left on the glass then you're doing something wrong ,  like Iv said before the only thing its possible for hot to improve on is your speed and believe me if it was possible to prove that it was quicker you would have more than one video on youtube showing it.
With the exception of poor old NWH ( god help him ) this is nothing more than guys  inventing problems so that they can have an excuse to buy the latest gadget, the constant harping on about it being a game changer is just to kid themselves that they haven't been foolish.

not a game changer - a working environment improver, this is where the divide starts......

If,  and a big if we get snow in Jan and the roads have 3 or 4 inches of snow on them will little ole' Nigel still be out cleaning - travelling down dangerous roads of ice - leaving hot wet steaming puddles of water  on customers doorsteps slowly turning into a slip hazard ?

everything has its pro's and cons

Darran

[Smudger]

also.....

I wonder what the customer would prefer in Nigels book,    the odd bit of spotting or shattered glass window ?

Darran

[Splash & dash]

im very interested in this discussion.

we had a hot water LPG system when we started and it was nothing but hassle. always running low on LPG.. only certain garages sold it. and it just not working at times

we didn't notice any improvement in cleaning with it and we ended up just not using it ever

but anything that will reduce the amount of call backs we get has to be a good thing.. so i am interested to see what people are saying..

 especially the big players with staff...

If you are getting call backs with cold you will get call backs with hot that’s down to bad workmanship , but hot will clean quicker especially at this time of year when cold water is only just above freezing , I have 3 vans two are hot and the 3 rd will be later next year , I certainly wouldn’t be spending that amount of money if it didn’t give significantly better and quicker results , we do however do a lot of costal salty stuff , but evan on inland stuff it’s still quicker evan on 4 weekly , I know certain people will poo poo what I have said but I don’t  care it’s a fact and benefits by buisness and we earn more due to using it that we ever did with cold , if you are a decent operation 4:5 k isn’t a lot of money all the ones on hear that say it’s no good are probably driving 10+ year old rust buckets and charging £5 per job , there views arnt of any interest they just spout rubbish with no experience of using hot , that’s my ten pence worth

[P @ F]

This one has been done hasn't it.

I've never used hot water all day.

Ive used an immersion over night to stop things freezing.

I have no problems with cold but I can't say hand on heart hot isn't better because I've never tried it.

That being said there's no way a diesel heater makes economical sense.

£15 a week in diesel plus the cost of maintaining and servicing not to mention buying can't be worth it.

It's not something I'm interested in.

I mean electric reels and extreme poles make a difference but they are 600 quid not 6 grand.

You would get far better flow from your new 6mm with hot  (HINT)