[TomCrowther]

I do a large block of flats for a Management Company. Been doing them for eight/nine years.
The original agreement was that I would clean all the windows that are reachable from the ground. They have penthouse type apartments with set back velux windows on one side {four floors} and French doors with tiny outside space on the other side. Plus other velux windows on other parts of the site which are two and three floors high, These have never been part of the deal but on occasion, I have cleaned a few of them from the inside which is a time consuming pain but like a lot of people, I try and keep everyone happy {ish}.
The company I deal with was taken over 18 months ago. Since then there has been what I would call "specification creep" as well as a general slowness in paying.
The last few cleans I have been also cleaning the velux windows which is a nightmare. 55 foot pole with Gardiner extended goose neck. The highest ones are done blind. Have to keep stopping, put the pole down, walk back and check etc. The others aren't too bad but still awkward. Broke a section a few month back on this job.
Last Friday when I last cleaned them, one of the owners came out and asked why I hadn't cleaned his windows. I had done them literally five minutes before. He was the lowest energy individual I have ever met. I'm working away and he is talking so slowly, asking where the cherry picker was. I explained how I had cleaned them, showed him the pole etc. He said " but you can't see them" I said I could, I am 6 foot four.five and can see them fine which is the case. The dope goes away only to reappear ten minutes later saying there were bits of dirt on the windows still. "Ok, I will do them again" "why haven't you brought the cherry picker"?
Jeez. Firstly. I don't have one and secondly, the job isn't priced for one. Things get slightly heated after I told him for the third time I would clean them again.
Another owner is going to the cinema. She normally lets me in to clean her French doors as set behind balcony. I don't mind as she is very pleasant and it takes only a few mins. This time she also complains. I said but your going out, it's not that I am unwilling to do them? You know when your blood starts to pump that bit faster? I am waiting for the next thing but the job ends with no more hassle.
Jump forward to today and I get a complaint from the management company, Turns out dopey is one of the Directors.
The complaint say's velux windows missed or not done properly, One whole section needs re-doing as windows all dirty {not possible} and to redo dopey's windows.
I am not happy as you can tell. Always gone out of my way to do the best job  {as agreed} possible plus some extras from time to time at no additional cost. No Price increase ever,
How would you proceed ? {assuming you are so sad, you have read the entire post}
T

[dd]

I have just decided to start reading War and Peace.

Advantage of this job is you don't have to work for people that hack you off.

[dazmond]

if its causing you that much hassle cant you just dump it?how much is the job worth over the course of a year?

it sounds like a "grudge clean" to me ......job taking longer than it used to (with hassle as well) and the hourly rates not great and late payments.......

i priced up a management company block of flats once...luckily i was too expensive......6 months later they went bankrupt.....personally i dont want big jobs like that on my books......no thanks....i much prefer £40 and £50 domestic jobs

[KS Cleaning]

Unless it’s a very well paid job I would drop it.  I assume it maybe used to be a good earner but probably isn’t now due to there being no price increase along with the fact the workload has been increasing. There’s plenty work out there that would be a lot less faff, doesn’t require a 50’ pole, doesn’t require cleaning velux windows blind, doesn’t require cleaning windows from the inside of the property......it’s a no brainer.

[capn sparkle]

Hi Tom
It would all depend on how much I wanted the job. Are you still full if you dump this one / renegotiate price for the extras?

If it's steadily becoming more and more of a PITA and payment is getting slower and slower then I would revisit the original T's and C's and stick to them. Also, I would imagine the 'Director' will be welded to your a@@ each time you clean in the future checking everything and waiting for a reason to exercise his 'power' over you.

Only you can really decide whether it's worth continuing in the future but I get inference from your post that you've already decided.

Good luck whatever decide

CIU sack 'em replace with two more 

[david mark]

I had a building like that in Lytham windows set back in the roof 5 a 6 story some you had to get access via there apartment dealing with owners complaints as not getting to some windows as can't see.
I gave it up as it was getting me down plus broken pole sections
This was 10 years ago The management company have other 12 different companies clean the nightmare building

[Smudger]

well paid or not there appears to be no defined rules on what you are cleaning - unless you have a document stating the exact windows to be cleaned - while doing various owners a favour this only leads them to actually expecting that as part of the service.

personally I would re visit the price by quoting for all windows and doors - with a cherry picker and give them the new price

other than that I'd walk away purely as 'dopey' will always be on your case

Darran

[deeege]

Couldn’t be arsed with that personally, unless it was priced very well, but I doubt it is if it was priced nearly 10 years ago.

[Simon Trapani]

I read the first few paragraphs - DUMP!

[Splash & dash]

If it’s not on the contract it’s not cleaned simple as that , if they want extras doing then it’s added to the contract and the price increases , I have no idear how much this job pays but in my books I would be having a serious discussion with the management company and putting my case forward and increasing the price considerably or dumping the job . I am more than happy to do the odd extra foc for people but you cannot dk that every time fir no more money

[windowswashed]

Personally I would remind them of what you agreed to clean initially when you took on the job. Alll the extras and inconvenience isn't worth the hassle and you never agreed to the extras and never renegotiated a new price either.
You could explain that you are happy to continue cleaning what you originally took on but not all the extras and leave it for them to decide. For all the extra and mostly INCONVENIENT jobs I would walk away from the extras as there are easier jobs without the hassle or grief.

[TomCrowther]

Cheers Guys. I appreciate the advice . This one is going the way of all flesh. Dopey ain't getting me down.

[windowswashed]

Cheers Guys. I appreciate the advice . This one is going the way of all flesh. Dopey ain't getting me down.

Unless the job is an extremely well priced job ask yourself if it's really worth all the grief, if it's not do something to change your situation you are in, best of luck. Sounds like you need to renegotiate a deal or lose it

[NWH]

Lol I did a job like this for about 10 years and in the end I sacked it off,they had balconies I used to have climb over etc pull the ladder up to the first balcony then lift it up and use it to go up another floor.
I said to them I can’t do the balconies like this anymore it will have to be re quoted even though if done it like this for years,it ended up me having to go into about 6-8 flats to do them,after doing this a couple of times I just said to them they’ll have to get someone else. Jobs like this look good when you pull up and first look at them but they end up creating more little can you just extras into the job for nothing,used to take about 3 and a half hours to do,when I look back I’m glad the jobs gone I get more cleaning houses and these people will get shot of you without blinking,my choice to go but very often block management is all about squeezing you on price you’ll get more doing well priced domestics.

[Richard iSparkle]

I agree with smudger. I’d arrange a meeting with the owners to discuss their service as you want to offer them the service that they want. Say that it’s become clear that they have different needs to the previous and you want to meet them to understand it going forward. Then sit down with them and ask what they want doing. Explain initially it was quoted for the previous owner who wanted all ground level windows only so that’s the price for that. Then offer them a new quote on the lines of what they would like doing now.

I did this exact thing last year on a job we’d been doing for £180 for over 4 years. It’s now a £430 job and a pleasure to do. We have over 4 hrs allocated to the job so we aren’t under pressure, and we are giving them a service they want. They would have ditched us I am sure. When I sat down with the owner he said he was pleased I’d emailed in because the service wasn’t working for then recently, but they wanted to use us still if we could get it right. I said we could but the price needed to go up considerably. All he wanted was the job done right. It was eye opening. Now we look forward to the job

[NWH]

If you have lots of these jobs and you are relying on them fair enough but if it’s the odd job I wouldn’t be to worried it,I have found these people to be flaky one minute you are great next thing you know it’s out of the mangers control and it’s gone out to tender.
1 thing with these jobs don’t ever think it’s down to the mangers in the site it’s not,every monetary decision is made from head office or by regional managers they decide if you go or not.

[Pete Thompson]

I had a similar situation this year. A block of nice, expensive apartments in an exclusive area managed by a local estate agents.

An easyish job, needing only a 35ft pole. Plenty of parking. Well priced.

The block had a top floor of dormer windows which were not reachable by pole (of any length). The agents specifically told us to exclude these from the quote.

So, did the job perfectly happily for 2 years. Agents always paid on time.

Then one of the owners happened to be there while we were there and asked about getting the dormers done. I told her we were told to exclude them, probably as they can’t be reached without a cherry picker. She pulled a face and whinged.

Next thing, the agent emails asking if we could do them somehow from the inside (which wouldn’t be possible as they are sash windows) and arrange a time with each apartment owner.

Straight away I decided I wasn’t even going to entertain this stupidity and emailed back saying that I’d looked at them many times over the years, and the only way to clean them would be a cherry picker, and I wasn’t going to do that so it would be best to get someone else.

A few months later the agent emailed us again saying they’d had a few other companies come along to look and all had said it could only be done with cherry picker, which they didn’t want to pay for. So please could we just resume as before.

Moral of the story, don’t stand for any carry on, just drop as soon as it becomes any trouble.

[zesty]

As Darran has said, you need to phone the management company and manage their expectations.

Just ask them what they are expecting, then explain what you’re able to do and not do.

I do a similar job, but it’s worth £519 for a days work, so I’m not in a hurry to a lose it.

What I’ve done is spoken to the residents who’s windows I can’t access from the ground, and I’ve told them if they want me to come inside to do there’,  I can. Only 2 have taken me up on that offer. I made sure to factor that into the price.

It works out quite well for me, as the penthouse likes to have their inside windows done, so I charge £40 for that which makes it worth while going up there.

I find the key is contact with the management company, keep them in the loop, and set out what can and can’t be done, perhaps you can increase the price based on doing more windows?

If it’s not priced well, then maybe time to drop it...

[Spruce]

well paid or not there appears to be no defined rules on what you are cleaning - unless you have a document stating the exact windows to be cleaned - while doing various owners a favour this only leads them to actually expecting that as part of the service.

personally I would re visit the price by quoting for all windows and doors - with a cherry picker and give them the new price

other than that I'd walk away purely as 'dopey' will always be on your case

Darran

You've hit the nail on the head Darran.

Tom's situation is typical of what can happen when a verbal agreement isn't put in writing confirming exactly what is involved and what isn't involved.

I agree that the only way to salvage this is to have a heart to heart with all those involved to try to get some perspective going forward.

Unfortunately from the indication and other's comments this job sounds like an under priced grudge job, so I don't hold out much hope of salvaging the job. The gap between the customer's new expectations and Tom's has suddenly grown into a chasm.

Sadly, it will probably mean that Tom won't get paid for the last job he did that they have complained about.

Personally, I would write a letter to the management company specifying what was originally agreed as try to get your money based on that. They have thrown a curved ball into the mix by stating that the front hasn't been cleaned satisfactorily as well. This was done to ensure Tom won't get paid for the last clean as they have in effect told him that.

Even if Tom went back and re-cleaned them, I see this as throwing good money (or time in this instance) after bad.  I personally believe he has lost the customer already.

[p1w1]

As said everything should be set in writing from the start. Problem is with management companies is they generally have never seen the properties they want you to clean so have no idea of what can be done and what cant.