[mac74]

Hello all,
My 40" axeon R O unit, when new was making water, @ 12ppm from a boosted 70psi  (400 tds in). And 2 years on its now pumping out 25ppm @ the same 70psi. As resin is close to £100 a sack now, im thinking of just changing the R O @ £250inc ish again. Or has anyone cleaned one, to get another year out of one? By just putting them in a soak cleaner for 24hrs or something? or anything?

[andyM]

If you read your own previous post you will see that someone has gone to the trouble of posting a link by Chris Turner of how he did it.

[NWH]

I know someone that has had a 40x40 for 10 years or so and they flush it maybe 4-5 times a year have 2 pre filters they change about every 3 months,it still gives them 3-6 PPM in there tank.
As soon as he changes the pre filters it goes back down to 2-3 PPM and stays like that for ages.

[mac74]

If you read your own previous post you will see that someone has gone to the trouble of posting a link by Chris Turner of how he did it.

I missed that, thanks

[Richard Groves]

I've not had time to try it myself yet as got a busy week and don't want to faff with my 4040 whilst it's working adequately. I will post whether it worked for me using the stuff Chris recommended later but for a fiver as he says, it's worth a try.

[mac74]

I've not had time to try it myself yet as got a busy week and don't want to faff with my 4040 whilst it's working adequately. I will post whether it worked for me using the stuff Chris recommended later but for a fiver as he says, it's worth a try.

Nice one, i will keep a eye on this. thanks m

[chris turner]

Hi mac, I can confirm cleaning does work.
My membrane had risen into the 20s, after a 24 hour soak in a descaling solution mixed into pure water, followed by a 40 min flush, tds dropped back down to 13.
That was a couple of weeks ago and tds is still 13...

[Lee GLS]

Hi mac, I can confirm cleaning does work.
My membrane had risen into the 20s, after a 24 hour soak in a descaling solution mixed into pure water, followed by a 40 min flush, tds dropped back down to 13.
That was a couple of weeks ago and tds is still 13...

What descaling solution did you use and what ratio to water did you make it to.

[mac74]

Hi mac, I can confirm cleaning does work.
My membrane had risen into the 20s, after a 24 hour soak in a descaling solution mixed into pure water, followed by a 40 min flush, tds dropped back down to 13.
That was a couple of weeks ago and tds is still 13...

Thanks chris, as above what ratio of water/cleaner? and was it HG descaler 100ml solution u used? OR maybe a viakal 500ml could be used instead as ive already got this? Im going to call gaps water 2moro to see what they suggest. Ive got nothing to lose really as its at 25ppm anyway. cheers m

[chris turner]

I used hg quick descaler. Its actually designed for hot water appliances such washing machines, kettles etc but worked very well for me.
I poured a full bottle into one of the pots below,  filled with pure, dropped in the membrane and left for 24 hours..
https://www.diy.com/departments/florus-rectangular-black-bell-trough-h-200mm-l-890mm/1886637_BQ.prd

P.s this isn't the exact pot I used, you need something longer for 4040 membranes, this is just an example.
Something like "really useful storage boxes" would work well, look them up..

[mac74]

I used hg quick descaler. Its actually designed for hot water appliances such washing machines, kettles etc but worked very well for me.
I poured a full bottle into one of the pots below,  filled with pure, dropped in the membrane and left for 24 hours..
https://www.diy.com/departments/florus-rectangular-black-bell-trough-h-200mm-l-890mm/1886637_BQ.prd

P.s this isn't the exact pot I used, you need something longer for 4040 membranes, this is just an example.
Something like "really useful storage boxes" would work well, look them up..

Thanks mate, i dont think the long plant thing would do, as it would need to be about 1100mm / 43.5 inchs to submerge it completely, because the base of these planters are smaller than the top. But i will look into this 2moro anyway. Cheers m.

[Richard Groves]

I used hg quick descaler. Its actually designed for hot water appliances such washing machines, kettles etc but worked very well for me.
I poured a full bottle into one of the pots below,  filled with pure, dropped in the membrane and left for 24 hours..
https://www.diy.com/departments/florus-rectangular-black-bell-trough-h-200mm-l-890mm/1886637_BQ.prd

P.s this isn't the exact pot I used, you need something longer for 4040 membranes, this is just an example.
Something like "really useful storage boxes" would work well, look them up..

Thanks mate, i dont think the long plant thing would do, as it would need to be about 1100mm / 43.5 inchs to submerge it completely, because the base of these planters are smaller than the top. But i will look into this 2moro anyway. Cheers m.

I made a container for mine. All available from screw fix etc. for £10
1 meter soil pipe
1  x  soil  pipe  blanking cap for the base
It fits a 4040 membrane very well, not dissimilar to its housing meaning you won't need a huge volume to submerge it. 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-sp8b-soil-pipe-single-socket-black-110mm-x-1m/79994

https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-sp296-socket-plug-black/46863

[mac74]

I spoke to gaps water 2day and june said i could try this:  empty the pre filters, put some cleaner in and turn the water on so it flushes right through. But after thinking about it im going to try this maybe? Part fill the base of a 220L drum i have with cleaner and water.  Leave the R.O in its case. Then put in a submersible pump in and connect it to the R.O inlet, with the waste and to tank outlets back into the barrel so it will cycle in a loop. Maybe let it run for 30 mins, then let it rest for a few hours with the cleaner/water mix still inside, then flush it? If i f**k it, then im going to give the Hydranautics ESPA4-LD 4040 membrane a try, as it supposedly rejects a little better than a Axeon.  Plus it has some anti fouling tech or something (probably boll*cks).

[Richard Groves]

I spoke to gaps water 2day and june said i could try this:  empty the pre filters, put some cleaner in and turn the water on so it flushes right through. But after thinking about it im going to try this maybe? Part fill the base of a 220L drum i have with cleaner and water.  Leave the R.O in its case. Then put in a submersible pump in and connect it to the R.O inlet, with the waste and to tank outlets back into the barrel so it will cycle in a loop. Maybe let it run for 30 mins, then let it rest for a few hours with the cleaner/water mix still inside, then flush it? If i f**k it, then im going to give the Hydranautics ESPA4-LD 4040 membrane a try, as it supposedly rejects a little better than a Axeon.  Plus it has some anti fouling tech or something (probably boll*cks).

I suppose any of the 3 ways will work. Will one work better than the others ?... I don't know.
I'm going with Chris's way, for one thing it gives you the chance to check the membrane over for damage ( check the other post about the damaged pentair membranes ). I'm wondering if you are over thinking it, you can't get simpler than dumping it in a bucket of descaler overnight.

[mac74]

Yes it would be easier, but i was thinking if the solution would reach all parts of the membrane without pumping it through? Its tightly packed together in there, but water will get to everywhere if left long enough i guess. Also have a look at this:    https://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/sroinstall.pdf        I wonder what the correct cleaning solution ratio is?

[CleanClear]

I done a bit of reading and research over this and there's allsorts of info out there. But i suppose a lot of it is "suck it and see".. I was tempted to try Citric Acid as a membrane descaler, seemed to tick all the boxes. Can't remember why i didn't try it, but it will be my next method to try. I did clean a membrane out with caustic soda. I disconnected the 40 40 membrane, tipped it on its side and filled it with caustic solution from a bucket. Half hour later i opened the tap and let all the fluid out..........it came out looking like a pint of Guiness . Definatley cleaned it, but the TDS went worse !! I.e it didn't do the membrane any good, so i bought a new membrane. When i let the fluid out, it spilt onto my leg, 18 months later i still have a big scar.

I would totally disagee with Spruce when he says along the lines of..." as the membrane gets older the pores get bigger and let more stuff through" (not verbatim) , i think that as they get older they get fouled and clogged with bacteria etc... so more goes to waste that way and less gets through.

So caustic soda is a big no no , or so i've experienced. Be good to see if anyone else would be willing to give a shot to trying summat  else before they bin their membrane ?

[CleanClear]

Should also go without saying , but i'll say it anyway as i don't trust window cleaners for scientific accuracy....... do NOT put any form of bleach or hypo near your membrane. That will definatley kill it.

[Richard Groves]

Yep, suck it and see ( not literally though )
HG descaler seems a safe bet though from the post by Chris.
I've a membrane given to me that was producing at 25 ppm currently submerged in pure in a soil pipe, when I get some descaler in the next couple of days I shall soak it for atleast 24 hrs before swapping my one out for it. If it drops by 12 or more ( mine when new was 7 ppm and same membrane but now at about 20 ) that would be pretty conclusive.

[chris turner]

I done a bit of reading and research over this and there's allsorts of info out there. But i suppose a lot of it is "suck it and see".. I was tempted to try Citric Acid as a membrane descaler, seemed to tick all the boxes. Can't remember why i didn't try it, but it will be my next method to try. I did clean a membrane out with caustic soda. I disconnected the 40 40 membrane, tipped it on its side and filled it with caustic solution from a bucket. Half hour later i opened the tap and let all the fluid out..........it came out looking like a pint of Guiness . Definatley cleaned it, but the TDS went worse !! I.e it didn't do the membrane any good, so i bought a new membrane. When i let the fluid out, it spilt onto my leg, 18 months later i still have a big scar.

I would totally disagee with Spruce when he says along the lines of..." as the membrane gets older the pores get bigger and let more stuff through" (not verbatim) , i think that as they get older they get fouled and clogged with bacteria etc... so more goes to waste that way and less gets through.

So caustic soda is a big no no , or so i've experienced. Be good to see if anyone else would be willing to give a shot to trying summat  else before they bin their membrane ?

As I already said, soaking in a decent limescale remover works a treat. In fact it seems to be still working, my tds has now dropped down to 11, a couple of weeks after treatment where it dropped from 25 down to 13.
Aa for bleach, using it to clean the inside of the housing is fine, as well as the outside of the membrane itself.  Definitely don't run it through the membrane though..

[chris turner]

Yep, suck it and see ( not literally though )
HG descaler seems a safe bet though from the post by Chris.
I've a membrane given to me that was producing at 25 ppm currently submerged in pure in a soil pipe, when I get some descaler in the next couple of days I shall soak it for atleast 24 hrs before swapping my one out for it. If it drops by 12 or more ( mine when new was 7 ppm and same membrane ) that would be pretty conclusive.

Soak it for 24 hours then flush for at least 30 mins with booster pump off, then switch on booster for 10 mins of flushing.  I think the higher pressure flush at the end helps clear contaminants.