[windows_chepstow]

stood on apex's of porches like a 'tight-rope-walker'

  .  .  whats that got to do with ladders?             


JohnL

JohnL,

How do you think they get up to the apex in the first place?  Jump?  Float?  Use a ladder maybe?

I think we're talking about 'working at height' in a dodgy manner.

[windows_chepstow]

This forum's turning into a bunch of fairies. :

Rog,

In any 'dangerous' occupation, the idea is to reduce the possibility of getting killed or injured.  Obviously in many dangerous occupations, you can't reduce this chance to zero; but using some intelligence and common-sense; you can reduce the risk overall.

In the British army, a 'gung ho' attitude is strongly frowned upon, bayonets ALWAYS are a last resort, but they're still used when the occasion demands it; when all other possibilities are exhausted.

I can see a comparison between the army's way of managing risk and with the Working at Height Regulations.

All the 'rules' basically say is that working at height should be a last resort, you should use your intelligence and common sense to avoid it, but should there be no other method; then ladders are allowed; using a Ladder Stabilisation Device and tied off, or with some other similar device!  (Rog, some 'feet' on your ladders may help.)

Anyway, Window cleaner's shouldn't have to risk their lives, 'Fairy' or not, and if you do risk yourself on a regular basis, just think what the effect a bad fall from a ladder would affect your life and family!





 

[Ian_Giles]

AS others have said, it looks a lot worse than it is. I would feel safe enough doing that. That ladders going nowhere.
Not often I take issue with Ian but do take care when there are overhead cables.
They are supposed to be insulated, but I have a hole burned into the side of my angle adapter that proves that not all of them are. I was lucky to be waring thick rubber gloves at the time. That cable was no more than 18ft up and I was using my unger pole. I could well have been killed. Dai

Dai,
Point taken, but the point I was really making was that; Aluminium pole - Aluminium ladder, both can come into contact with overhead cables, overhead cables are a risk to either ladders or poles, but a pretty low risk...even if you were nearly BBQ'd to a crispy frazzle

Ian

[jeff1]

BT are also doing away with there carbon fiber poles for the  same reason. and this is HSE making them do it.

[Ian_Giles]

BT are also doing away with there carbon fiber poles for the  same reason. and this is HSE making them do it.

Er...what do BT use poles for?? I really hoe I'm not sounding dense here

I know they have overhead cables mounted on poles, but I presume you don't mean that.

Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

Er...what do BT use poles for?? I really hoe I'm not sounding dense here

Only when you spell "hope" hoe......

[Paul Coleman]

Hi,

Sorry all the anti-ladder brigade but i think you have this one wrong.

The ladder is a triple and its evenly balanced, perhaps its me got it wrong, but any part of his ladder is not on the last rung, if you visualise the rung lengths (12 i think) then he looks to me to have quite alot of overlap on each section.

As for the car, well i'd rather be footed by a car than a person any day of the week, as long as the handbrake was on !

Not sure about resting on the pitched roof gutter though - with that weight it could take a chunk out !

Carl   

Well I would leave it in gear too in case the handbrake cable failed.

[Paul Coleman]

Wish I could see the pics you guys are on about.

I can't see anything appart from a small red cross int the top left of where the pic should be?

And when I click on the jpeg number at the bottom of the pic & click open, It says "no preview available"

Is it just me???

Clear Vision

Just a guess but if you are using Internet Explorer do TOOLS > INTERNET OPTIONS, click the ADVANCED tab.  Scroll down and put a tick mark in the SHOW PICTURES box (it's in the MULTIMEDIA section).  You must click the APPLY button for this change to register.  If that's not the problem then I don't know what else to say.

[C Senor]

Hello,

I cant help but think that this is all relative to what each individual feels is 'safe' for them.

Personally i would be quite comfortable working with my ladder at that angle and 'footed' by a car, it really wouldnt be a problem for me - i use my own judgement to test the ladder before going up it, and if i feel its a bit dodgy, then i dont go up - simple as that.

However, i used to be a Pro decorator and i used to work in the construction industry so i experienced the 'full blast' of the Health and Safety dept !

My own, and everyone i have ever knowns opinion of the H&S is that they are just a complete bunch of idiots who have absolutely no practical sense whatsoever !

I was a decorator and on some jobs step ladders were eventually banned.     lol, not only for decorators but for all trades.

Try and imagine this : decorators, electricians, plasterers, air conditioning ducters/fitters, carpenters, networkers all working in one banking hall, there must have been 25/30 blokes on the job at one given time.

No step ladders allowed.   

Everyone had to supply scaffold, it was complete chaos !

Most of the work you needed steps for was just above head height, so you'd spend half an hour looking for you scaffold in the huge pile, then put it up to reach an extra couple of feet. Everyone was doing this so in the tight corners only one trade could work at a time.

The job went over by months. I heard that in the end, it was a nightmare having cost the constuction company a fortune in delay penalties.

The lads and even the site managers went through everything to try and work out why the H&S dept banned step ladders and it was always the same reason it boiled down to.

Insurance Claims.

There was a huge survey in the construction industry to find out how individuals were having accidents - falling from step ladders was right up at the top.

Fall off, claim an accident - Insurance has to cough up compensation. How do they solve this ? the only way the insurance people know how to - ' right, you can't use step ladders anymore !!'

Complete disaster.

It didnt last long, everyone soon got round to using ladders again, it just wasnt practical - either physically or financially.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit, if behind the Health & Safety was a government department backed and funded by a huge consortium of Insurance Companies.

Carl.

[Sir Squeaky]

Well I would leave it in gear too in case the handbrake cable failed.

Because of course a ladder can push a car....

I go up to a window at that angle every month, but it's only an upstairs on an average semi.
It's because there's no access to the side of the house, so I do it from an adjacent alleyway.

The other day I put it as usual against the wall behind (or so I thought).
But when I got down I'd put it an inch from the wall.

Guess what? It hadn't moved that inch back to the wall at all.....and the ladder was pretty flat like that picture.

Takes a lot to get a ladder to slip.

[Ian_Giles]

oh no it doesn't Rog,
They can slip when you least expect it, you should never tempt fate or even give the impression that the ladder is as safe as houses when at an acute angle...it isn't...



Ian

[Jeff Brimble]

To reduce the chance of contact with powerlines the featherlight poles I use now come with a height adjustable insulated sections.
But anyone got actual details of any electrical accidents when using poles for window cleaning ?

[Paul Coleman]

Well I would leave it in gear too in case the handbrake cable failed.

Because of course a ladder can push a car....

I go up to a window at that angle every month, but it's only an upstairs on an average semi.
It's because there's no access to the side of the house, so I do it from an adjacent alleyway.

The other day I put it as usual against the wall behind (or so I thought).
But when I got down I'd put it an inch from the wall.

Guess what? It hadn't moved that inch back to the wall at all.....and the ladder was pretty flat like that picture.

Takes a lot to get a ladder to slip.

Roger.  I have had a ladder slip even when at a normal angle (1 in 4).  It depends what it's standing on but sometimes it can be inconsistent.  At least get yourself a long non water fed pole to put your hand tools on eh?

[poleman]

Jeff, Not one in the UK, in 9 years from when WFP first became available and only one in the USA in 20 odd years.

Andy

[Jeff Brimble]

Ahh, thanks, USA have only two overhead wires horizontally and unearthed. Ours are insulated and the one your most likely to hit with a pole or ladder is the earth.

[jeff1]

To reduce the chance of contact with powerlines the featherlight poles I use now come with a height adjustable insulated sections.
But anyone got actual details of any electrical accidents when using poles for window cleaning ?

Hi Jeff

No details, but I do know BT are in talks with HSE on the issue
of carbon poles

[ecowasher]

i would love to see the mark that the feet leave on the house with the amount of bounce he would have got from a set of triples at that angle!

[windows_chepstow]

oh no it doesn't Rog,
They can slip when you least expect it, you should never tempt fate or even give the impression that the ladder is as safe as houses when at an acute angle...it isn't...



Ian

I've had a ladder slip from under me at an approximately a 1 in 5 ratio; I was gaining access to a window above a sloping porch roof; but I thought I was safe because my ladder-feet were in good nick and I'd stamped them into grass.

Without warning they slipped back and luckily enough the porch roof slowed my descent to the ground a tadge.

My finger-tips were bleeding from sliding down the porch roof on my way to earth; but I can't remember doing it.

Luckily enough, apart from a few bruises and sore fingers, I was fine (I'm a Geordie you see).

The thing is, I could've had a 1 in 4 ratio by placing the top of my ladders above the window; but it was a hot day; I was feeling tired and I made a mistake.

[ronaldo]

To reduce the chance of contact with powerlines the featherlight poles I use now come with a height adjustable insulated sections.
But anyone got actual details of any electrical accidents when using poles for window cleaning ?

Never heard of any Jeff but there has been a few accidents involving fishermen and their roach poles touching cables!!