[P @ F]

If I just flog them at a fair price with a bit for me on top the big boys won’t bother ripping it off surely !

[Slacky]

If I just flog them at a fair price with a bit for me on top the big boys won’t bother ripping it off surely !

They will, there's plenty of peeps out there that dont use CIU.

[p1w1]

If I just flog them at a fair price with a bit for me on top the big boys won’t bother ripping it off surely !

I wouldn't think so, they only way they would do it is if they could get them made a lot cheaper then you. If your not going to put a big mark up on them then they will probably be a lot cheaper then what they would want to sell them for, I doubt they'd bother trying to compete on something they cant make good money on.
However it doesn't stop another person in their garage knocking them out for a few quid in their pocket.

For instance when i was looking at the current hot systems available (Webasto units) it actually wouldn't have been that much cheaper to buy the heater unit myself and all the bits and try and organise fitting myself then to just get the Grippa system installed as they will get them cheaper then i could, as they are probably buying dozens at a time direct from the manufacturer.

[nathankaye]

If I just flog them at a fair price with a bit for me on top the big boys won’t bother ripping it off surely !

I wouldn't think so, they only way they would do it is if they could get them made a lot cheaper then you. If your not going to put a big mark up on them then they will probably be a lot cheaper then what they would want to sell them for, I doubt they'd bother trying to compete on something they cant make good money on.
However it doesn't stop another person in their garage knocking them out for a few quid in their pocket.

Dont be fooled by such thinking.
Large companies can strike deals as they will buyb in bulk and hence reduce their costs.  They can subsidise the cost through the rest of the companies products n services and importantly they will probably mass produce n distribute through various networks and still make a good profit on them.

Dont take any chances and patent the whole thing.

[dazmond]

i think everyones jumping the gun a bit here........

theres no prove yet that this chinese heater will work reliably day in/day out.....time will tell......if its breaking down every few weeks or nearly setting on fire or needing constant tweaking then its not ready.....it needs a good year being used every day to get a better idea of reliability and safety....

[p1w1]

If I just flog them at a fair price with a bit for me on top the big boys won’t bother ripping it off surely !

I wouldn't think so, they only way they would do it is if they could get them made a lot cheaper then you. If your not going to put a big mark up on them then they will probably be a lot cheaper then what they would want to sell them for, I doubt they'd bother trying to compete on something they cant make good money on.
However it doesn't stop another person in their garage knocking them out for a few quid in their pocket.

Dont be fooled by such thinking.
Large companies can strike deals as they will buyb in bulk and hence reduce their costs.  They can subsidise the cost through the rest of the companies products n services and importantly they will probably mass produce n distribute through various networks and still make a good profit on them.

Dont take any chances and patent the whole thing.

Did you not see that bit in red..What can he patent on it then, What is unique about it?
Were talking about something that is not tried and tested, unsure if its even legal to sell commercially etc. I bet the Chinese heater itself is a copy of something already out there 
Like i said its brilliant & clever what P&F has done but probably far away  from some mass marketed diesel heater. If anyone is going to copy it, it will be the Chinese anyway 

[Plankton]

Has the supplier been asked if they can produce it?

[dazmond]

If I just flog them at a fair price with a bit for me on top the big boys won’t bother ripping it off surely !

I wouldn't think so, they only way they would do it is if they could get them made a lot cheaper then you. If your not going to put a big mark up on them then they will probably be a lot cheaper then what they would want to sell them for, I doubt they'd bother trying to compete on something they cant make good money on.
However it doesn't stop another person in their garage knocking them out for a few quid in their pocket.

For instance when i was looking at the current hot systems available (Webasto units) it actually wouldn't have been that much cheaper to buy the heater unit myself and all the bits and try and organise fitting myself then to just get the Grippa system installed as they will get them cheaper then i could, as they are probably buying dozens at a time direct from the manufacturer.

exactly.....some window cleaners think the likes of grippatank are ripping people off with these hot systems,their NOT!obviously their a business too and have to make a fairly good mark up for the hassle of buying and fitting them but its not as much as people think....

out of the £4.5k i paid for mine,£750 was VAT,so that takes it down to £3750 straight away,as well as the webasto heater unit i also got 2 105ah starter/leisure numax batteries,smart split charge relay,upright cabinet,liquid logic controller,frost stat and fitting.......

[P @ F]

i think everyones jumping the gun a bit here........

theres no prove yet that this chinese heater will work reliably day in/day out.....time will tell......if its breaking down every few weeks or nearly setting on fire or needing constant tweaking then its not ready.....it needs a good year being used every day to get a better idea of reliability and safety....

Come January Daz mine will have been used for a year day in day out , all I have replaced is a glow plug which I wrecked whilst messing with settings , max power should be 5Hz , I ramped it up to 8 Hz to see what would happen , I soon found out 

[robbo333]

I don't much about this but:

I used to work in marketing and advertising, so we would get a new product to try and market and sell, (it may be still in the design stage or under manufacture) and we would have to sign a 'confidentiality agreement', quite simply we couldn't divulge any information about it.
So the first thing I would say is: anyone working on this project (and I mean anyone) should sign a confidentiality agreement. I've always been happy to sign one and (money is money).

If you are going to patent the product then something needs to be unique about it and i'm guessing it's expensive and time consuming to do. Personally if I spent the time patenting the product, then why bother having the hassle and expense of manufacturing it. I would sell the patent under licence, let everyone else have the hassle of producing it and cream a percentage off the top.

If you don't want to patent it, then another company will simply purchase one (change it a bit) which means 'paint it orange' offer the full backup and service of a quality company and sell it 'as their own'.

Also I am guessing that it will need to be CE approved. Good luck with that one!

But the most important question is: do you do next day delivery?

I quite fancy one.

[P @ F]

All I am trying to do is give people the chance to go hot without the big price tag.
I could have been punting these out since February with my original design , but it wasn’t ready with regard to a tiny amount of fume escape and inferior quality metals , that being a mild steel exhaust chamber.
None of that will be an issue now though as my fabricator is a custom build stainless exhaust company .

The owner used to be head engineer for one of the teams that race them wicked powerboats that come to Plymouth, so I like to think that he knows his arse from his elbow!

[P @ F]

I don't much about this but:

I used to work in marketing and advertising, so we would get a new product to try and market and sell, (it may be still in the design stage or under manufacture) and we would have to sign a 'confidentiality agreement', quite simply we couldn't divulge any information about it.
So the first thing I would say is: anyone working on this project (and I mean anyone) should sign a confidentiality agreement. I've always been happy to sign one and (money is money).

If you are going to patent the product then something needs to be unique about it and i'm guessing it's expensive and time consuming to do. Personally if I spent the time patenting the product, then why bother having the hassle and expense of manufacturing it. I would sell the patent under licence, let everyone else have the hassle of producing it and cream a percentage off the top.

If you don't want to patent it, then another company will simply purchase one (change it a bit) which means 'paint it orange' offer the full backup and service of a quality company and sell it 'as their own'.

Also I am guessing that it will need to be CE approved. Good luck with that one!

But the most important question is: do you do next day delivery?

I quite fancy one.

I have considered all that you just said myself , and the CE mark is the grey area , don’t actually know if the heater in it’s original state is !
I can easily find out from the UK distributer that I will be using .

[P @ F]

If you guys want top pay through the nose quality then I can do exactly the same with an Eberspacher D2 heater I reckon , but the warranty will be void the moment we cut the heat exchanger off 

[P @ F]

And you will be paying £75 for a glow plug instead of £10.99. 

[P @ F]

How much diesel are you expecting it has Rich? For say 6 hours use a day?

Don’t have the formula close to hand , the specs say 400ml per hour on full chat , so 6 hours will set you back 2.4L for the day .
I often find myself turning it down as the day goes on due to the remaining tank water getting hotter with the recirculating going on , I would guess for my 5 hour days I’m looking at £2/£2.50

[p1w1]

All I am trying to do is give people the chance to go hot without the big price tag.
I could have been punting these out since February with my original design , but it wasn’t ready with regard to a tiny amount of fume escape and inferior quality metals , that being a mild steel exhaust chamber.
None of that will be an issue now though as my fabricator is a custom build stainless exhaust company .

The owner used to be head engineer for one of the teams that race them wicked powerboats that come to Plymouth, so I like to think that he knows his arse from his elbow!

All you can do is try and see how it goes..

[robbo333]

Rich

I wish you the best of luck, I really do, (and stick me down for one) but what I don't want to happen is:
You find a way of selling them and in 3 month's time, one of them goes 'BANG'. Maybe a van gets damaged or someone gets hurt!
It will come back on you (in a big way), you need to consider this.  You're doing a good deed, but you need to cover your arse if something goes wrong!

[Splash & dash]

i think everyones jumping the gun a bit here........

theres no prove yet that this chinese heater will work reliably day in/day out.....time will tell......if its breaking down every few weeks or nearly setting on fire or needing constant tweaking then its not ready.....it needs a good year being used every day to get a better idea of reliability and safety....

My Grippatank 9kw is now 5 years old and run for over 10,000 hours and never been serviced or missed a beat , I think that’s very good reliability.

[Splash & dash]

How much diesel are you expecting it has Rich? For say 6 hours use a day?

Don’t have the formula close to hand , the specs say 400ml per hour on full chat , so 6 hours will set you back 2.4L for the day .
I often find myself turning it down as the day goes on due to the remaining tank water getting hotter with the recirculating going on , I would guess for my 5 hour days I’m looking at £2/£2.50

If those figures are accurate that’s very good probably the cheapest option available for hot water well done with all your hard work 

[zesty]

On reliability of Chinese engines etc.

I don’t think there’s is any good reason to worry, the Chinese have been making knock off Honda engines and the like for years and years with very good reliability results.

Take the Loncin engines, I’ve had two pressure washers, both Loncin, and currently own one with a  Loncin engine. All of them have been flawless with long hard use. The Loncin has never missed a beat. And I’ve never serviced any of them.

Sounds like it could all be a winner Rich!

I’m here if you need a tester 👍🏼 I’ll pay for the privilege.