[dustee]

Interesting stuff form the pair of you

[Ned Kelly]

Ned  ,  the orange X looks good  , i would use that if i used cleansmart products  ...       orange X  and some active X mixed in hot water you'v got a potent prespray  ,  i wouldnt bother adding  the microsplitter as activex already had a builder included , sodium carbonate .
Good to have f90 in the tank also ... but could be added to the above prespray mix too .

The chemspec equivilant to orange X would be ' heavy duty soil lifter '  and the active X would be ' energizer '   
you cant go wrong with either , the cleansmart version looks lower cost/better value ... as long as they are diluting it at a similar ratio .

Thanks for the tips John. I absolutely love Orange-X and Active-X and virtually add them to everything (their like a comfort blanket lol). Didn't realise Active-X had sodium carbonate builder in it but that's down to my rudimentary knowledge of carpet cleaning chemistry lol. Regarding the microsplitter (insert brand), would I still achieve, in your opinion, using F90, Orange-X, Active-X (bearing in mind F90 is predominately an extraction product) as a combo, a better result on a dirty polyprop carpet than any microsplitter (insert brand) using the same boosters?

[john martin]

Hi  the main role of active X is to add an oxidizer ( in the form of sodium percarbonate )  .. but they seem to include sodium carbonate to add an extra cleaning factor ,  the role of sodium carbonate would be similar to the role of phosphate in a detergent mix .

would your orangeX ,  active X and F90 be better than just ' microsplitter '  yes .. by a million times

would your orange x , active X +  f90 be better than orangeX, active X + ' microsplitter  ...      not much in the difference   , the f90 would be a more complex powder , but the orange X /active X would make up the difference mostly .

[Ned Kelly]

Cheers John 👍

[RPCCS]

I cleaned coach seats yesterday with F90 as a pre spray, and an acid rinse in the tank. Seats came up brilliant.

[Cleanevangelist]

removed

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I’m a F90 pre ‘sprayer’ what I like about it is that it’s an encap as well so as Mike has stated that you can’t guarantee full removal of a solution from the carpet fibres so the next best thing is that what is left crystallises and gets vacuumed away so isn’t dirt attracting.

[Ned Kelly]

Hi Ned

have a look at this wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant

scroll down to "Classification" part

have a look at the image

then look at the types of surfactants.

next look at the labels on your products. make sure you have a selection of the types of surfactants on your van and you will be able to remove any type of dirt.

now your ready to pick your method depending on soil levels.

https://sites.google.com/site/cleanavangelist/home/carpet-cleaning/different-methods-of-carpet-cleaning
Hope This Helps

Ian Harper

Very interesting Ian. I've not had a chance to fully digest all the info in the link but will try my upmost in the next few days. You, like Mike and John seem to have lots of knowledge regarding the chemistry behind carpet cleaning. In your opinion, would a "microsplitter" (insert brand) be a better option than F90 as a prespray on a medium soiled carpet and if the answer is yes then what are the active ingredients which would make it so?  Mike ( who exclusively uses microsplitters for prespraying, encap ) also seemed to allude that there is a difference between a "prespray" and a "detergent," if this is correct then which chemical ingredients would make this the case? When it comes to" microsplitters" I'm starting to think of the famous Scottish comedy show " Chewing the Fat" in which one of the actors makes the statement: " I smell poope" !!!  Shaun, you also seem to be a man of vast experience in the industry, can I ask you if you ever use "microsplitters" and if not why not? Thanks in advance guys

[Mike Halliday]

You are getting  hung up on the word ‘microsplitter’ Because it’s a Meaningless word and as such thinking it’s not to be taken seriously,  I drive a Lexus,  guess what??.... the word Lexus Is a made up word,  it means nothing,  should I stop driving my car?

But to be honest I don’t actually use a microslitter, I use this.... (see photo below) which actually doesn’t mention the word microsplitter.

I also think you are getting hung up on the pre-spray where it’s only part of getting the carpet clean, what do you use to aggatate? And how do you rinse?  What psi & flow rate? how hot?

[Ned Kelly]

Thanks for the reply Mike. The chemistry we use as carpet cleaners is a fundamental building block when it comes to getting the best results to clean carpets and I want to make sure I'm getting the best. So we can all agree that the word "microsplitter" is made up and all it really is a great marketing gimmick and is no better than F90 as a prespray and if so what CHEMICAL INGREDIENTS ( no need to shout Ned lol) make it better than F90?

[Mike Halliday]

Who is the ‘all agreeing’ when you say ‘all can agree ‘ ?

I can see John agreeing so that’s only one person but we on CIU Are a very small section of the carpet cleaning world and amt4ch sell a lot these chemicals and have done for years,  if it was no good it wouldn’t sell

And I know some very experienced & well known  carpet cleaners who use them.

For your other question.... You need to do some research on what chemicals are used in prespray but not used in detergents. An example Is delemonine (spelling?).  which is a derivative of citrus oil and is often used in prespray that have a citrusy name but it is incredibly prone to cause re-soiling  so is not used in detergents  as it is very sticky. Also enzymes often are used in prespray but rarely used  in detergents .

So to use a detergent as your pre-spray limits the full potential

[john martin]

You are getting  hung up on the word ‘microsplitter’ Because it’s a Meaningless word and as such thinking it’s not to be taken seriously,  I drive a Lexus,  guess what??.... the word Lexus Is a made up word,  it means nothing,  should I stop driving my car?

But to be honest I don’t actually use a microslitter, I use this.... (see photo below) which actually doesn’t mention the word microsplitter.

I also think you are getting hung up on the pre-spray where it’s only part of getting the carpet clean, what do you use to aggatate? And how do you rinse?  What psi & flow rate? how hot?

Mike , thats a fail        its got  ' microsplitter technology ' on the bottom left corner  ...   
Next to that its got ' non toxic ' with a fish symbol ( but phosphate causes eutrophication in rivers )
Next to that ist got ' totally natural '   ... is sodium metasilicate totally natural ?  not sure it occurs in nature

Amtech extreme is 5-8% phosphate
1% sodium metasiciliate
The rest is a big can of water  ...   its a ripoff  .

[Ned Kelly]

Who is the ‘all agreeing’ when you say ‘all can agree ‘ ?

I can see John agreeing so that’s only one person but we on CIU Are a very small section of the carpet cleaning world and amt4ch sell a lot these chemicals and have done for years,  if it was no good it wouldn’t sell

And I know some very experienced & well known  carpet cleaners who use them.



For your other question.... You need to do some research on what chemicals are used in prespray but not used in detergents. An example Is delemonine (spelling?).  which is a derivative of citrus oil and is often used in prespray that have a citrusy name but it is incredibly prone to cause re-soiling  so is not used in detergents  as it is very sticky. Also enzymes often are used in prespray but rarely used  in detergents .

So to use a detergent as your pre-spray limits the full potential

As I said before Mike I mixed the F90 with Cleansmarts Orange-X and Active-X then extracted with F90. The question I asked initially(if I can remember that far back lol) is would a microsplitter (like the one you use) do any better than that combo(or another brands )? And if so what are the chemical ingredients which would make it better?
Thanks in advance

[Mike Halliday]

You are getting  hung up on the word ‘microsplitter’ Because it’s a Meaningless word and as such thinking it’s not to be taken seriously,  I drive a Lexus,  guess what??.... the word Lexus Is a made up word,  it means nothing,  should I stop driving my car?

But to be honest I don’t actually use a microslitter, I use this.... (see photo below) which actually doesn’t mention the word microsplitter.

I also think you are getting hung up on the pre-spray where it’s only part of getting the carpet clean, what do you use to aggatate? And how do you rinse?  What psi & flow rate? how hot?

Mike , thats a fail        its got  ' microsplitter technology ' on the bottom left corner  ...   
Next to that its got ' non toxic ' with a fish symbol ( but phosphate causes eutrophication in rivers )
Next to that ist got ' totally natural '   ... is sodium metasilicate totally natural ?  not sure it occurs in nature

Amtech extreme is 5-8% phosphate
1% sodium metasiciliate
The rest is a big can of water  ...   its a ripoff  .

😎😎😎 you got me on that! I looked at that label for ages and didn’t see it😊

[Mike Halliday]

Who is the ‘all agreeing’ when you say ‘all can agree ‘ ?

I can see John agreeing so that’s only one person but we on CIU Are a very small section of the carpet cleaning world and amt4ch sell a lot these chemicals and have done for years,  if it was no good it wouldn’t sell

And I know some very experienced & well known  carpet cleaners who use them.



For your other question.... You need to do some research on what chemicals are used in prespray but not used in detergents. An example Is delemonine (spelling?).  which is a derivative of citrus oil and is often used in prespray that have a citrusy name but it is incredibly prone to cause re-soiling  so is not used in detergents  as it is very sticky. Also enzymes often are used in prespray but rarely used  in detergents .

So to use a detergent as your pre-spray limits the full potential

As I said before Mike I mixed the F90 with Cleansmarts Orange-X and Active-X then extracted with F90. The question I asked initially(if I can remember that far back lol) is would a microsplitter (like the one you use) do any better than that combo(or another brands )? And if so what are the chemical ingredients which would make it better?
Thanks in advance

ned the combination you suggest would I think make cleaning easier than just using  A ‘microsplitter’  whether  it would do a Better job is debatable,  so what are you trying to do make the job better or easier?   

[Ned Kelly]

Who is the ‘all agreeing’ when you say ‘all can agree ‘ ?

I can see John agreeing so that’s only one person but we on CIU Are a very small section of the carpet cleaning world and amt4ch sell a lot these chemicals and have done for years,  if it was no good it wouldn’t sell

And I know some very experienced & well known  carpet cleaners who use them.



For your other question.... You need to do some research on what chemicals are used in prespray but not used in detergents. An example Is delemonine (spelling?).  which is a derivative of citrus oil and is often used in prespray that have a citrusy name but it is incredibly prone to cause re-soiling  so is not used in detergents  as it is very sticky. Also enzymes often are used in prespray but rarely used  in detergents .

So to use a detergent as your pre-spray limits the full potential

As I said before Mike I mixed the F90 with Cleansmarts Orange-X and Active-X then extracted with F90. The question I asked initially(if I can remember that far back lol) is would a microsplitter (like the one you use) do any better than that combo(or another brands )? And if so what are the chemical ingredients which would make it better?
Thanks in advance

ned the combination you suggest would I think make cleaning easier than just using  A ‘microsplitter’  whether  it would do a Better job is debatable,  so what are you trying to do make the job better or easier?

Mike, in regards to the chemistry in my combo and your "microsplitting technology", which in your opinion would make a "better job" on a medium soiled polyprop carpet?

[dustee]

Can F90 be used as a pre-spray for dry compound or recommend a. n. other

Just in case anyones wanting to know agitation is via E40

[Mike Halliday]

[/quote
Mike, in regards to the chemistry in my combo and your "microsplitting technology", which in your opinion would make a "better job" on a medium soiled polyprop carpet?
[/quote]

I would do a ‘better’  job if we consider that better means gets the carpet cleaner , I would get it clean and leave it with zero residue.

But why would you use  F90 with Cleansmarts Orange-X and Active-X then extracted with F90  On a medium soiled poly’ carpet.

But again I think you are getting too hung up on the chemical part of the process, I think a good scrub with a rotary has more to do with getting the carpet clean than what you have pre-sprayed with.

The extreme I use might not be the best pre-spray in the world but once I’ve gone through the cleaning process it gives equal results to any other chemical in the market. If all I was interested in was making the carpet look clean as quick & easy as possible with no thought to the care  of the carpet or what I left behind then I would mix sod’-metasilicate  with Stardrops and prespray with that.

I clean with a 30-1 mix of ‘microsplitter’  i Also have a spray bottle of 10-1 on my belt which as I scrub if anything is a bit stubborn I give it a shot of the 10-1.