I have 1 van out full time with 2 people. They normally do £495.00 + VAT per day. £110.00 each in wages, £200 for me leaves £75.00 per day for everything else and the rest stays in the bank.
If render cleaning some flats or some big building that figure can go up. Some render cleaning days you can do £800.00 per day.
We only do gutter and render cleans and some pressure washing, min charge £84.00 + VAT.
I used to have 4 vans, 3 on a domestic window round and the other doing gutters and render. Plus office staff and yard etc.
The window cleaning vans used to do around £380.00 per day while the gutter van done over £500.00.
I got rid of everyone, plus yard and kept two vans. One is out full time and other I use to do quotes. I get paid more now then I did before and semi retired at 32.
I thought having a big business with lots of staff was the goal, but when I got it I realised it wasn't what I wanted, it's what society thinks you should do.
I read all the 'self help' books by Napoleon Hill, Brain Tracey, Dale Carnegie and so on. At one point I was just like Lee Pryors, thinking that 'my / his' way was the right and only way and that anyone can do it if they put their minds to it. But it's a load of rubbish, it's what society has 'sold' to you and your a mug if you follow it.
Now I work 2-3 hours in the morning and paint / draw in the afternoons. I chose that, not society.
One book I still follow is the 4 Hour work week. Without this I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing.
Really informative. The biggest problem clearly is passing the VAT to the domestic customer and not pricing yourself out. If we have a substantial VAT threshold drop I think this could change. As all self-employed people basically need to start charging VAT.
This is what keeps your profits really low yes each van you get you are making more money but it's nowhere near as much as you did with your first van. Hypothetically if your vans were making £380 per day plus VAT that would be 460 per day would leave you 270.00 per day. It's a big difference. And when the penny drops with multiple vans and you're making basically £100 per van getting behind with work and having all the responsibilities associated staff everything. You basically realised why am I doing this...
I think the main reason is purely that you would enjoy the challenge and probably get a kick out the numbers. But when it's all said and done because the actual profit after all expenses and VAT is high no director would really pay themselves more than a sole operator.
When it comes to wanting to expand even though I have broken the above down the only thing that would interest me ongoing is purely the challenge but breaking the numbers down it is a bit disheartening and you sometimes have to wonder why people get really really big it isn't about money it's can't be some of them have been expanding for 10 years solid and never have paid themselves as substantial amount in one tax year
On and off I have also for that period of time..
10 years is a long time of your life.
I think it's purely just the challenge. However with the amount of time money stress with the psychology of this business with messers and people not knowing they want it regular until they see you next time. then being hit with a huge VAT bill that you cannot pass to the customer heavy labour costs and running costs . And all that time and effort how much more money profit do you think you could make investing in a different sort of business completely.?
If it's domestic window cleaning possibly 2 to 3 vans could be enough it's enough to pay you a handsome salary and your partner something maybe..and probably just work part time in the week physically. But to keep going from that point to continue to pay yourself the same wage because you want to keep reinvesting to get bigger and bigger.. with very very little return really currently it's like this but this will change though at some point especially when the government lower the VAT threshold so these numbers could really change.. Lee is sort of an exception done so well but For example if lee was to charge plus VAT on all his prices he really would be raking it in then..Likewise anyone else towards his level.
I think coming to terms with this currently is a bit difficult because it's something we have done most our lives, and it's not inspiring to hear how unrewarding it could be when you get really big given the work ratio investment and so much time and everything else.
Rather stubbornly I think I am one to challenge myself it's purely just down to wanting the challenge wanting to try and go forward because staying still isn't really for everyone as well..I do think 2 to 3 vans running full time is a good place to be so that's a good goal at that point though you would need to focus on profit any new work really needs to take that VAT into account.
