[Jon Linley]

Hi. I'm looking into starting up my own round. I've been looking at buying or a franchise. Has anyone had any experience with a franchise? What are the pro's and con's?
I've enquired about a couple of rounds that were for sale, but they couldn't prove their turnover due to interesting accounting.
Any tips or advice would be gratefully accepted.

[Spruce]

Hi. I'm looking into starting up my own round. I've been looking at buying or a franchise. Has anyone had any experience with a franchise? What are the pro's and con's?
I've enquired about a couple of rounds that were for sale, but they couldn't prove their turnover due to interesting accounting.
Any tips or advice would be gratefully accepted.

Franchising is all about the credibility of the franchisor.  If they are genuine then this could be a good route to consider for some.
You also need to look very carefully at the terms of the franchisor. He might insist you fill up at his depot and he will charge you per liter for the water you use or you might have to setup you own filtration system at home.

The franchisor supplies you with work for a given lump sum upfront payment. The round is his and even if you add customers to the round they could still be part of his round if these are his terms and conditions. He may also supply a fully equiped van which is part of that lump sum. You will be required to drive around in a lettered van with his name all over it that will be yours. He might also stipulate the make and the model of van which you may have little say in.
 
The franchisor will also take a %  of each clean you do. In our neck of the woods I see that Friday evenings are debt collection evenings so the franchisee is responsible to collect outstanding monies. You also need to find out what the franchisor is pricing work at. Can you earn a reasonable wage on his pricing structure after he has taken his cut?

What will you loose if you decide window cleaning isn't for you.  This happened with a franchisee locally about a year ago. He ended up trying to sell a new Vivaro/Trafic van with a fully fitted system in the back.

If you pull out of the franchise what are your restrictions with regard to continuing to window clean?

[cleaniac]

I would say the best way to get started is to go out and canvass some work.

Good luck with that however, its saturated with newcomers and Brexit is stopping people from making commitment. New enquiries are down across the board at the moment, this time last year I already had 30 enquires from walk ups etc, this year iv'e had around 10.

I was going to buy a new van this year, but I have decided to hold off for a while until things settle with whats going on, i don't owe any finance on vehicles at the moment  so prefer to keep it that way for the time being.

In my experience most people selling rounds will claim that it brings in this and that, and when you ask for proof..its a different matter like you..

[Spruce]

I would say the best way to get started is to go out and canvass some work.

Good luck with that however, its saturated with newcomers and Brexit is stopping people from making commitment. New enquiries are down across the board at the moment, this time last year I already had 30 enquires from walk ups etc, this year iv'e had around 10.

I was going to buy a new van this year, but I have decided to hold off for a while until things settle with whats going on, i don't owe any finance on vehicles at the moment  so prefer to keep it that way for the time being.

In my experience most people selling rounds will claim that it brings in this and that, and when you ask for proof..its a different matter like you..

This is good advise. Some however, will find it easier to move into a fully furnished new property rather than building it from scratch themselves. Purchasing into a franchise comes at a cost.

[jonboywalton75]

I've sold and bought rounds . The way ive proved earnings is by working the round with either the buyer/seller and showing/seeing for myself how much the round generates.
Always works for me.
Ive sold about 6 different rounds and bought 4.

[Spruce]

Hi. I'm looking into starting up my own round. I've been looking at buying or a franchise. Has anyone had any experience with a franchise? What are the pro's and con's?
I've enquired about a couple of rounds that were for sale, but they couldn't prove their turnover due to interesting accounting.
Any tips or advice would be gratefully accepted.

It would be interesting to know more about this statement.

Its not difficult to work out what a round brings in. If the seller has 100 houses at £10 a house on an 8 week cycle then the round brings in £1000 every 8 weeks or £500 every 4 weeks.

Where things get interesting is what business buyers refer to as goodwill. It one time the going rate for buying a window cleaning round in our area was twice its 4 weekly value. I've seen sellers trying to get up to 10x for what they term as a well established round.

When I worked for Reg Vardy Peter Vardy would only buy a struggling dealership for the value of its assets, land, buildings etc. He would not buy the sellers perceived value with regard to potential future customer trade - goodwill.

Remember, buying an actual round isn't tax deductible as the Receiver doesn't see it as a business expense.

I've sold and bought rounds . The way ive proved earnings is by working the round with either the buyer/seller and showing/seeing for myself how much the round generates.
Always works for me.
Ive sold about 6 different rounds and bought 4.

It does help dealing with an honest seller. We have heard of many cases where selling a window cleaning round was a scam and the buyer lost out.
We purchased a round in the early days. He was a genuine seller but his work was well underpriced.

[nathankaye]

I've sold and bought rounds . The way ive proved earnings is by working the round with either the buyer/seller and showing/seeing for myself how much the round generates.
Always works for me.
Ive sold about 6 different rounds and bought 4.

Apologies up front for slighy hi-jacking the thread.  Ive only bought a round of a friend who I used to work the round with and only because he moved away into  "building" and same when Ive sold a section of work, its been to people I know well and we trust each other.
However Im wanting to sell a small section to a chap who works in the same area. I have worked this section for over ten yrs and can show my books for such years. Not that i will go that far back. Theybare good payers and loyal (well to me over the many years) and are now on wfp and many pay online or d/d, so was selling for 4x's.
At what point do you take someone around the round is it before they have paid or just b4. As they have the potential to say no and then go round afterwards and try n undercut or whatever to try n get the work from underneath me and without paying? So unsure what the proceedure is for ones selling?  As can see, i dont really trust anyone i dont know

[jonboywalton75]

Trusting the person is a very important factor.
I've gone on gut instinct which isn't always reliable of course
I was on the point of buying a round that was 100% Commercial, i rang one of the clients who said that when the guy i was buying from was retiring they would be employing someone else, so i would have been sacked immediately without cleaning once, needless to say i pulled out.

[cleaniac]

I've sold and bought rounds . The way ive proved earnings is by working the round with either the buyer/seller and showing/seeing for myself how much the round generates.
Always works for me.
Ive sold about 6 different rounds and bought 4.

Apologies up front for slighy hi-jacking the thread.  Ive only bought a round of a friend who I used to work the round with and only because he moved away into  "building" and same when Ive sold a section of work, its been to people I know well and we trust each other.
However Im wanting to sell a small section to a chap who works in the same area. I have worked this section for over ten yrs and can show my books for such years. Not that i will go that far back. Theybare good payers and loyal (well to me over the many years) and are now on wfp and many pay online or d/d, so was selling for 4x's.
At what point do you take someone around the round is it before they have paid or just b4. As they have the potential to say no and then go round afterwards and try n undercut or whatever to try n get the work from underneath me and without paying? So unsure what the proceedure is for ones selling?  As can see, i dont really trust anyone i dont know

IMO and this is just it, my opinion.

Selling for 4x the monthly isn't really an accurate way of valuing that round.

I have also bought and sold rounds, and i stipulate a contract of engagement to be signed, with half the payment upfront to get the full information and the balance due on signover. Once the monies are paid the letters are sent notifying new owners etc.

For selling off small rounds I have always worked back what that round makes in a year, divide that by 12 and times it by the multiple of its year establishment per customer.

(Just an example)

20 customers £20k a year.

5 that are 10 years old
Yearly turnover £5000/12*10 asking price £4166
5 that are 7 years old £5000/12*7 asking price £ 2,916
5 that are 3 years old £5000/12*3 asking price £ 1,250
5 that are 2 years old £5000/12*2 asking price £ 833.00

Asking price for this 20k example £9165

Deposit  for commitment £4582.50
Balance due on transfer £4582.50

I have done it like this a few times and it always seems fair for both parties.

[nathankaye]

I've sold and bought rounds . The way ive proved earnings is by working the round with either the buyer/seller and showing/seeing for myself how much the round generates.
Always works for me.
Ive sold about 6 different rounds and bought 4.

Apologies up front for slighy hi-jacking the thread.  Ive only bought a round of a friend who I used to work the round with and only because he moved away into  "building" and same when Ive sold a section of work, its been to people I know well and we trust each other.
However Im wanting to sell a small section to a chap who works in the same area. I have worked this section for over ten yrs and can show my books for such years. Not that i will go that far back. Theybare good payers and loyal (well to me over the many years) and are now on wfp and many pay online or d/d, so was selling for 4x's.
At what point do you take someone around the round is it before they have paid or just b4. As they have the potential to say no and then go round afterwards and try n undercut or whatever to try n get the work from underneath me and without paying? So unsure what the proceedure is for ones selling?  As can see, i dont really trust anyone i dont know

IMO and this is just it, my opinion.

Selling for 4x the monthly isn't really an accurate way of valuing that round.

I have also bought and sold rounds, and i stipulate a contract of engagement to be signed, with half the payment upfront to get the full information and the balance due on signover. Once the monies are paid the letters are sent notifying new owners etc.

For selling off small rounds I have always worked back what that round makes in a year, divide that by 12 and times it by the multiple of its year establishment per customer.

(Just an example)

20 customers £20k a year.

5 that are 10 years old
Yearly turnover £5000/12*10 asking price £4166
5 that are 7 years old £5000/12*7 asking price £ 2,916
5 that are 3 years old £5000/12*3 asking price £ 1,250
5 that are 2 years old £5000/12*2 asking price £ 833.00

Asking price for this 20k example £9165

Deposit  for commitment £4582.50
Balance due on transfer £4582.50

I have done it like this a few times and it always seems fair for both parties.

Cheers.

[Michael Peterson]

isn't there a guy on here whos an expert on franchieses?

[Jon Linley]

Hi. I'm looking into starting up my own round. I've been looking at buying or a franchise. Has anyone had any experience with a franchise? What are the pro's and con's?
I've enquired about a couple of rounds that were for sale, but they couldn't prove their turnover due to interesting accounting.
Any tips or advice would be gratefully accepted.

It would be interesting to know more about this statement.

Its not difficult to work out what a round brings in. If the seller has 100 houses at £10 a house on an 8 week cycle then the round brings in £1000 every 8 weeks or £500 every 4 weeks.

Where things get interesting is what business buyers refer to as goodwill. It one time the going rate for buying a window cleaning round in our area was twice its 4 weekly value. I've seen sellers trying to get up to 10x for what they term as a well established round.

When I worked for Reg Vardy Peter Vardy would only buy a struggling dealership for the value of its assets, land, buildings etc. He would not buy the sellers perceived value with regard to potential future customer trade - goodwill.

Remember, buying an actual round isn't tax deductible as the Receiver doesn't see it as a business expense.

I've sold and bought rounds . The way ive proved earnings is by working the round with either the buyer/seller and showing/seeing for myself how much the round generates.
Always works for me.
Ive sold about 6 different rounds and bought 4.

It does help dealing with an honest seller. We have heard of many cases where selling a window cleaning round was a scam and the buyer lost out.
We purchased a round in the early days. He was a genuine seller but his work was well underpriced.

One round I looked into he said it was turningover £87000 and he'd been working the round for 10 years. But he could only show me the accounts for the previous year and only part of the year before that. Plus he was only declaring £16000 to HMRC. Needless to say I walked away from it.

[TomCrowther]

Ian Lancaster is the franchise chap.