[jo5hm4n]

So for the first time in 6 years today a customer has phoned me and has says he has noticed a large scratch on the outside kitchen window.  We cleaned the windows on 25th March, and he noticed the scratch today.

Now these windows are fairly old, not new and he is a customer we have cleaned for 3 years.  Too be honest i've never liked the guy, he is always rude and speaks down to you.  He has sent over a photo and there is several scratches most of them 6-8 inches long

All i want to do is protect myself legally.  There is no way we could of caused a set of scratches 6-8 inches long with the WFP Gardiner Brushes.  I am not admitting liability, and i am not paying for a new window or going through my insurance company.

I have spoken to Gardiners and they have told me its near impossible to scratch a window with WFP even with grit at the end of the bristles, if there is any long parallel scratches this would disprove it being done by WFP due to grit moving away from the bristles as you move the brush over the glass.  They also said its really difficult for the client to prove it was caused by us.  He would first have to prove that the scratches were not present before we turned up to clean the windows on 25th March, and even then he would have to prove that we are using equipment that caused the scratch which they said is even more difficult to prove as we use specifically designed brushes made for window cleaning that do not scratch glass.  This is part of what gardiners told me to send in an email to my client.  Only including a snippet.

"First of all I would like to assure you that the methods we use and have used on your property, along with the specialist brushes selected for your windows, are chosen so that it is not possible to scratch glass of any sort, whether new glass or skylights.

The brushes are made by a specialist company who have been supplying them to the WFP window cleaning industry for over a decade now and are made using PBT polyester bristles and nylon stocks. Both materials are not hard enough to scratch glass in use. They are also designed not to hold on to grit or stones in cleaning."


So guys, what i want to know is how have any of you personally approached this if you have been accused of scratching glass on a domestic monthly clean for a long standing customer.

All i care is about is not being sued or having a claim against me that i lose.  Not interested in anything else, customer is already dumped as far as i am concerned.

How can i approach this via email in a way that sort of adds to my legal defence.  I am not going to the customers property.  Its a 45 minute drive and as far as i am concerned there is no way it could of been caused by us so i am not wasting any of my time and money.  I want to send an email to the customer, and its up to him what he does after that if he wants to sue me.

Can anybody advise what to say exactly or share a template of what you have sent to customers?

You can email me @ info@quantumshine.co.uk

Really appreciate any advice from those who have been accused of scratching glass.

First time for me 

[easy clean]

Have you changed your brush head on your goose neck?

[dazmond]

i was accused once(2 scratches on upper windows)....i told him "heres my brush,just try and see if you can scratch 2 panes of glass with it"

....he declined....and i still clean his windows to this day....

he d had some new windows fitted a few months before and figured out that it must of been one of the installers.....

[Smudger]

If you want my honest opinion - here it is.....

why would the customer 'make it up' - you cleaned it 3 days ago - and they noticed it today thats a reasonable time to report back to you
as you said you don't like the guy so your already very defensive - yet you have cleaned there for 3 years

Yes you can scratch glass with water fed pole - I've done it once and one of our guys have done it - both occasions where bird strike was on the glass - mine I just heard something go along the glass the other was an upper window and he used the corner of the stock

a lot depends of the position of the glass - upper window then its unlikely to be anything else than the window cleaner - downstairs on a window thats direct onto the public footpath then could be anyone

you need to weigh up these things and also generally the customer - yes by the letter he can't prove you did it and likewise you can't prove it - judgement may come down to probability - so yes refuse flat out - that will lead to bad feeling esp. if the customer is genuine - at best you'll lose them and in every eventuallity get them posting on Facebook etc..

or you take the bigger approach and accept the possibility send round a glazier get a new window fitted for £50 - their happy - you praised for great service and keep the customer

did you clean it or was it a staff member ??

Darran

[KS Cleaning]

Looking at the scratches, I don’t think they are consistent with water fed pole use....unless you have a hammer thrower or Stevie Wonder on the end of the pole!

[Shrek]

I was accused in January, been cleaning the windows a while and she said her niece came round at Christmas and noticed them and now she notices them all the time and they weren’t there before! 
I told her that I buy specially made brushes for window cleaning so it’s not possible 
I also said il take her off my round and she can find someone else as I don’t want to be accused again. She said there isn’t anyone else so she doesn’t want me to dump her.
So I carry on 👍

[Smudger]

"First of all I would like to assure you that the methods we use and have used on your property, along with the specialist brushes selected for your windows, are chosen so that it is not possible to scratch glass of any sort, whether new glass or skylights.

The brushes are made by a specialist company who have been supplying them to the WFP window cleaning industry for over a decade now and are made using PBT polyester bristles and nylon stocks. Both materials are not hard enough to scratch glass in use. They are also designed not to hold on to grit or stones in cleaning."

just to give you a reply from the other side - its stated that its not possible to scratch glass - this is assuming that the equipment is in good condition and used in the correct way - please supply photo's of the equipment you use and the training documents and certificates to prove you know how to use the equipment

can you show your equipment was in tip top condition - the bristles are held in with staples and when the stock wears they become visable - do you have a training matrix ? have you and staff been signed off to prove you use the equipment correctly

IM NOT SAYING YOU NOT - but there are counter arguments that can be brought to bear and Gardiners would clarify that you couldn't scratch the glass if used correctly and in good condition

Darran

[nathankaye]

You may recall last year or year b4,  i posted very similar, that a chap had claimed that i had scratched a pane of glass. This led ne to do a video on my channel as well, where i rubbed my brush along a gravel patch in the car park and proceed to clean carelessly some glass.

The chap supposedly went to the window cleaning federation who also kinda agreed that it may be possible for wfp to do so. I say supposedly as it doesnt add up what they supposedly said. But if you do a search for it, im surd the thread will come up.
I went to my insurance company for advice and basically theybsaid if the customer is adament then its hard to disprove and basically they dont fight it and pay out. So that was a waste of time.
Basically i said it was highly unlikely and i will do all in my power to fight against him in such a claim and I havent heard anything since.

Looking at the photo youve posted, the scratch seems to be curved compared to up n down or side to side. So its also to me, unlikely and include in your response gardiners reply as well. Especially if you are 100 per cent sure it was not caused by you. If it was that easy then we would all have scratch glass claims against us. But then if you have staff who use the plastic of the brush to clean bird poop off, then your screwed 😂😂

[Stoots]

Delete and block number. Remove from round.

Job done

[AuRavelling79]

Basically if you think you didn't do it and you don't want to keep the customer then use the Gardiner paragraphs and a paragraph such as...

We do not believe we have caused this scratch due to the high quality tools and standards we use.

However we have found that sometimes scratches have been caused by other work done nearby or general house or garden maintenance and then not noticed for many months or even longer until a bright day when the sun strikes it from a certain angle. Because imperfections may be imperceptible in dull conditions and the window is often dirty due to weather this might go unnoticed until a sunny day after the windows have been cleaned.

[Dave Willis]

Go round and have a look, could be grease or even on the inside.

[easy clean]

This happend to me, one of my staff took it upon himself to buy a new Gardiners brush but when he screwed it onto the quick lok goose neck he screwed the Phillips screws too far through and the tips very slightly penetrated through the plastic block of the brush where the bristles start, could just feel it with fingers, the damage was exactly the same as your images

[Arnold Palmer]

Ah, Spring. Low sun, customers see scratches that have been there for years and blame the shiner.

What fun.

Good luck.

[jo5hm4n]

Have you changed your brush head on your goose neck?

Yes about 10 days ago, not had any problems at all with it so far though on either poles that we changed the brush heads on.

[easy clean]

That’s your problem there mate 99%. Bet the tips of screws have done it, seems a bit coincidental. You probably pushed harder on the glass in that area and caused the damage! Like someone suggested get a glazier to sort it for about £50 and forget about it.

[jo5hm4n]

If you want my honest opinion - here it is.....

why would the customer 'make it up' - you cleaned it 3 days ago - and they noticed it today thats a reasonable time to report back to you
as you said you don't like the guy so your already very defensive - yet you have cleaned there for 3 years

Yes you can scratch glass with water fed pole - I've done it once and one of our guys have done it - both occasions where bird strike was on the glass - mine I just heard something go along the glass the other was an upper window and he used the corner of the stock

a lot depends of the position of the glass - upper window then its unlikely to be anything else than the window cleaner - downstairs on a window thats direct onto the public footpath then could be anyone

you need to weigh up these things and also generally the customer - yes by the letter he can't prove you did it and likewise you can't prove it - judgement may come down to probability - so yes refuse flat out - that will lead to bad feeling esp. if the customer is genuine - at best you'll lose them and in every eventuallity get them posting on Facebook etc..

or you take the bigger approach and accept the possibility send round a glazier get a new window fitted for £50 - their happy - you praised for great service and keep the customer

did you clean it or was it a staff member ??

Darran

The window in question was a downstairs kitchen window.  It was a member of staff, who i've spoken to today, he said it was cleaned as normal, no plastic scrapers used/bronze wool, nothing out of the ordinary.  As it's a downstairs window surely that makes it even harder to scratch without realising it if nothing else, because you are not at an awkward angle etc..

Once again, i do not like the customer, never have done he just always talks down to you.  Nearly every time you go there he accuses us of missing the side window, even though not once in 3 years have we ever missed it.....

I am more than happy to dump him as a customer have been thinking that for some time in any case.  Worst case i get a bad review on facebook or somehow he wins a claim against me, but i can't see that happening based on what everybody has said on here.  It would be too difficult for him to prove it.  At the end of the day he is a Bi Monthly customer at £11.  If i pay out myself minimum £50 for the replacement window that will take me a minimum of a year to earn that back off the customer if i cleaned myself and not staff.  All for taking the moral ground and replacing just because he is a customer and nobody can prove otherwise who actually caused the scratches.

Bottom line is, unless he can prove we did it, i am not admitting liability.  Just like Nathan has said on here already, i have also tried to personally scratch glass in the past intentionally just to see if it could be done, and even then going at a window like a mad hatter with a brush caked in grit i still could not scratch it at all.

If you can scratch glass so easily cleaning bird mess off, then why aren't all us window cleaners constantly scratching glass each day with the amount of windows we clean?

[jo5hm4n]

That’s your problem there mate 99%. Bet the tips of screws have done it, seems a bit coincidental. You probably pushed harder on the glass in that area and caused the damage! Like someone suggested get a glazier to sort it for about £50 and forget about it.

Just had a look now at the pole and brush in question, the screws are not coming through at all, ive looked up close and felt with my fingers.  I just can't see that being the issue.  We have cleaned well over 100 properties with this new brush and i've personally cleaned all day with it today and looked at dry windows from the sun, no scratches anywhere to be seen.

[jo5hm4n]

Delete and block number. Remove from round.

Job done

Im tempted to send him an email and block his phone number just to avoid any angry calls i may get off him! 

[jo5hm4n]

Basically if you think you didn't do it and you don't want to keep the customer then use the Gardiner paragraphs and a paragraph such as...

We do not believe we have caused this scratch due to the high quality tools and standards we use.

However we have found that sometimes scratches have been caused by other work done nearby or general house or garden maintenance and then not noticed for many months or even longer until a bright day when the sun strikes it from a certain angle. Because imperfections may be imperceptible in dull conditions and the window is often dirty due to weather this might go unnoticed until a sunny day after the windows have been cleaned.

This is perfect, just what i was looking for.  Will put all this into an email tomorrow and send it off.  Thankyou. 

[jo5hm4n]

Go round and have a look, could be grease or even on the inside.

Not driving 45 minutes just to take a look.  Would rather replace for £50 than waste 90 minute round trip plus time wasted inspecting, just to realise that like on the photo it probably is a scratch and still can't be proved one way or another who actually caused it