[RPCCS]

Got a jar of this yesterday at theChemspec workhop, its a cleaning agent to put in the tank, but how do you use it? The tank is supposed to contain the rinse agent . Do you put it in the pre spray or not?  How do you apply it if its in the tank?

[Robin Ray]

F90 is a extraction detergent it is designed to to be added to the water you rinse the carpet with. It is not designed to replace a prespray. It is designed to rinse a prespray from the carpet or be used as a stand alone solution. As it is a higher ph it can only be used on non ph sensitive fabrics ie, not wool, linen, or other natural fibers, it is also not suitable for stain protected carpets as the higher ph will strip off the protector. F90 has excellent cleaning power and is a good choice for very dirty synthetic carpets, restaurants, commercials etc..
It is advisable to leave natural fibers in a ph neutral state that is where acid rinses come in. They are acidic to neutralize the alkalinity of the prespray. Alkalinity cleans better though and will leave less residue than acid rinse products.

If you are unfamiliar with how extraction detergents work I would recommend getting on a basic carpet cleaning course. What you learn on a course will both make you money and save you money too. It will also give you quite a bit of extra confidence when dealing with customers questions.

[RPCCS]

Thanks Robin, I have done two carpet cleaning courses already, I was just a bit confused as to the use of it.
I thought ALL carpets needed to be left in ph neutral state? Can this be used as a cleaning detergent too then? Ie pre spray, then rinse and extract with an acid rinse?

[Robin Ray]

Yes, just use it  in the place of the acid rinse.

There are loads of great extraction products out there, but they fell out of fashion a while ago when microsplitters came along. I would much rather clean with a prespray and a good extraction detergent than just an acid rinse. Don't get me wrong  acid rinsing does have its place though. Some companies who provide training will not talk much about extraction detergents as their whole ethos is based around only using a prespray to clean and an acid rinse to neutralize. Extraction solutions are perfectly safe though and when used at the correct ratios they will not cause resoiling. Give F90 a go on some trashed carpet with a good presray and you will never go back, it really is an amazing product.

As a side note there is also a Liquid F90, which is an entirely different product. It can be used at various dilutions depending on the carpet type and soil conditions. At it lowest dilution ratio liquid F90 is woolsafe!

[RPCCS]

Thanks for that, I nicked a roll of carpet out of a skip yesterday to practice on. Been cleaning carpets since.  August but not had a lot of jobs, also still learning, so its good for me to discuss matters like this with old hands like you and Mike Halliday. Not insinuating that either of you ate old though 😆 I was aware of th f90 liquid too

[Robin Ray]

I can be slow this time of the year especially if you are just starting out, as the spring gets going though it will get busier.  Have fun with the F90 its good stuff!

[RPCCS]

Robin, I spoke to one of the workshop hosts and he said it’s a cleaning agent, rather than a rinse agent. If the carpet is not too badly soiled, it doesn’t need a ore spray, just use f90 in the clean tank like a rinse and extract  procedure, but can it be used as a rinse agent too? Would the pre spray need to be acidic rather than alkaline, if using f90 as a rinse, or does the neutral phi procedure just apply to natural fibre carpets?

[DB]

I was planning to wash my hair later...good to know I can rinse it with Formula 90

[Robin Ray]

I was planning to wash my hair later...good to know I can rinse it with Formula 90

Hair is a natural fiber Dereck you would be better off with chemspec optimal rinse.

[RPCCS]

I was planning to wash my hair later...good to know I can rinse it with Formula 90

Hair is a natural fiber Dereck you would be better off with chemspec optimal rinse.

Doesn't answer my question though.

[john martin]

If you rub some chemspec dye gone into your fringe first you could get summer surfer look going .
A lot of people since with f90 and ultimate master and the like .don't worry too much about pH , unless u apply a a very high pH prespray on certain carpets .

[Robin Ray]

If you rub some chemspec dye gone into your fringe first you could get summer surfer look going .
A lot of people since with f90 and ultimate master and the like .don't worry too much about pH , unless u apply a a very high pH prespray on certain carpets .

Extracting wool with with a high ph extraction detergent isn't a good idea though?? Regardless of what ph prespray you use if you leave wool at that ph you are running a high risk of browning. Ultimate master is ok though as it self neutralizes but powdered F90 is almost ph11.

[Robin Ray]

Robin, I spoke to one of the workshop hosts and he said it’s a cleaning agent, rather than a rinse agent. If the carpet is not too badly soiled, it doesn’t need a ore spray, just use f90 in the clean tank like a rinse and extract  procedure, but can it be used as a rinse agent too? Would the pre spray need to be acidic rather than alkaline, if using f90 as a rinse, or does the neutral phi procedure just apply to natural fibre carpets?

F90 can be used as both a stand alone cleaning solution and a rinse in fact essentially they are one and the same thing.  As F90 has a higher ph and detergency it has the ability to clean which acid rinses do not. All  acid rinses do is flush away the soils which have been released by the prespray and neutralize the alkalinity of the prespray.

 You do not need to use a lower ph level of the prespray with F90 or any other extraction detergent. What you need to do is select the correct prespray and extraction detergent for the carpet type and soiling. As an example if you are cleaning "cleaninsh" polypropylene carpet F90 in the tank and extracting with no prespray is a way you can use that solution. If cleaning a dirty polypropylene carpet in a commercial environment a prespray with a high ph prespray along with a high ph extraction detergent like F90 is a excellent choice. If cleaning something like a stain resistant nylon carpet a prespray of about 9.5 and an extraction detergent of no moor than ph 9.5 is appropriate. If you are cleaning a wool carpet a prespray of about between 8 and 9.5 is appropriate with an acid rinse to with  neutralize. Not all carpets need to be left in a neutral state. They need to be left at the appropriate ph level. The purpose of leaving a wool carpet in a neutral state is to prevent browning. All extraction detergents can be used in the same way as F90 they just need to be appropriate to the type of fiber you are cleaning.

I am shocked that in two training courses no one has explained what an extraction detergent is and how it works to you. 

[DB]

Wool does NOT cause cellulosic browning!

Stain resist Nylon is a  4th generation nylon fibre with mill treated protector. added... You have already stated that high alkaline products will strip a protector in a previous post

My comment about rinsing my hair with Formula 90 was twofold  and with tongue firmly in my cheek... I certainly wouldn't like to leave any of it (or any other chemical) in my hair after shampooing... that's why I always rinse
The final phase of a washing machine cycle is the 'Rinse'

Chemspec Formula90 is an excellent product and I used it as a pretreatment  successfully for years followed by an acidic rinse

[DB]

Robin

You are absolutely correct, there are several products on the market that are sold as rinse cleaning agents but I prefer to always rinse ...
All courses that I have been on over the years have drawn attention to the importance of rinsing

Carpet when they leave the factory will be on the acid side due to acid dyes used during manufacture.., a clean carpet should be left slightly acid to neutral.

A cleaned carpet that you may wish to add a protection to should always be finished with an acid rinse prior to treatment...this provides the ideal surface to allow the protective treatment to bond correctly.

If you are happy cleaning as you that's fine... I will do it my way (with apologies to Frank Sinatra)

[Robin Ray]

Wool does NOT cause cellulosic browning!

Stain resist Nylon is a  4th generation nylon fibre with mill treated protector. added... You have already stated that high alkaline products will strip a protector in a previous post

My comment about rinsing my hair with Formula 90 was twofold  and with tongue firmly in my cheek... I certainly wouldn't like to leave any of it (or any other chemical) in my hair after shampooing... that's why I always rinse
The final phase of a washing machine cycle is the 'Rinse'

Chemspec Formula90 is an excellent product and I used it as a pretreatment  successfully for years followed by an acidic rinse

I would agree wool does NOT cause browning. However cleaning wool with high ph products CAN cause browning on wool.

F90 was designed as an extraction detergent

[Mike Halliday]

washing your hair, washing pots  in hot water  or putting your clothes in a washing machine ( and all the other over simplified  arguments  used to try and prove a point) are not a valid comparison to using detergent to clean carpets.

Firstly look at the amount of chemical left in the carpet after it is correctly diluted ( Upto 600-1)  them how much is  extracted from  the carpet, you are left with about a teaspoonful  of detergent over the full carpet and remember that this chemical has been designed to be be safe to leave on the carpet ( if it’s not designed to return to a powder and be vacuumed from the carpet).

Use detergent as per the instructions with correct testing  and you will be ok it is a valid method of cleaning a carpet

[RPCCS]

Tjanks for the replies everyone. I have been trained the pre spray , agitate ,dwell time, rinse and extract method, so I will stick with that, and keep f90 as a rinse agent. Unless cleaning a wool carpet, in which case I have a woolsafe acid rinse to use.

[Robin Ray]

Tjanks for the replies everyone. I have been trained the pre spray , agitate ,dwell time, rinse and extract method, so I will stick with that, and keep f90 as a rinse agent. Unless cleaning a wool carpet, in which case I have a woolsafe acid rinse to use.

Try it out on that scrap of carpet you have, Put some tape down the center, clean one half with your normal method and the other using F90 as the rinse rather than an acid or just plain water. Let us know how you get on.

[RPCCS]

Ok will do