[Stoots]

if the average is 25k a year and mines 45k a year then over 5 years thats £100,000 more than the average windy (and working short hours too)....even with paying more tax/higher expenses ive still got plenty left over for a diesel heater........

i still dont get how some one man bands claim to earn £60k+ a year on their own working similar hours to me........yet scrimp and scrape,drive old vans and DIY everything......something doesnt add up........

Yeh but is the 25k a year turnover or after tax?

60k a year and having less costs equals more profit than 45k and having more costs.

[james peters]

10 years ago, I was earning more than I am now. I have been a window cleaner for 27 years.
however I earn far more per hour now , but I work less hours.
I am far better off now than I have ever been.
10 years ago , I had a wife (that didn't work) and 3 children . I had credit cards and loans and needed to work really hard to get by
5 years ago, my wife left... I basically had the children 70% of the time, but had to pay maintenance to ex wife just to keep her happy and maintain peace for my kids sake
it was very hard, but I got through it, and it taught me to live within my means.

2 years ago my partner moved in ... she earns the same as me....we have no loans or credit cards.  we have a brand new car paid with cash... I have a newish van all paid for. and we have plenty of surplus.
our kids apart from my son are now adults.
my daughter works for me.

its all about circumstances. because I have been pennyless and struggling when I had young children and a wife that was useless, it has taught me to appreciate money , and use it wisely

balance is the key

[Dave Willis]

You have to remember Daz, you are not normal. Most people your age have families and property, maybe kids starting Uni. Not many live the selfish life that you do. Hence we don’t feel the need to brag our earnings or outgoings all over an internet forum. Bit harsh I know but but you live in a world most of us grew out of in our twenties. What you don’t know is what many of us spend our money on and unfortunately a heater, new van, drumkit, and a hairdressers car are not top priority to many. 

[Simon Trapani]

Say it as it is Dave

[NWH]

You sound like you’re living a life like me then Daz 😂

[NWH]

It maybe not a selfish life some people have kids and bills and think it’s a way of life,it’s not it’s a choice. I know people that have kids and all they do is moan about how much they cost and never have and spare money,they have one then another then maybe another it’s a choice they make.

[Dave Willis]

  yes but by and large most are married, have kids etc. A cleaner on 60k a year may well have different priorities.  Years ago you’d look at someone’s car and you knew if they earned a good wage or not. These days you look at their car and it doesn’t show you their wealth, it just shows you what they owe.

[dazmond]

You have to remember Daz, you are not normal. Most people your age have families and property, maybe kids starting Uni. Not many live the selfish life that you do. Hence we don’t feel the need to brag our earnings or outgoings all over an internet forum. Bit harsh I know but but you live in a world most of us grew out of in our twenties. What you don’t know is what many of us spend our money on and unfortunately a heater, new van, drumkit, and a hairdressers car are not top priority to many. 

I know!most of my band mates are married with kids and mortgages etc,it's never appealed to me tbh.....

I do have a partner and 2 grown up stepkids(19 yr daughter,26 yr old son)and a dog though.....I just don't live with them full time mate!

I hope I never 'grow out of my twenties'as u put it! .......I'll be playing drums until the day I die!

[p1w1]

You have to remember Daz, you are not normal. Most people your age have families and property, maybe kids starting Uni. Not many live the selfish life that you do. Hence we don’t feel the need to brag our earnings or outgoings all over an internet forum. Bit harsh I know but but you live in a world most of us grew out of in our twenties. What you don’t know is what many of us spend our money on and unfortunately a heater, new van, drumkit, and a hairdressers car are not top priority to many. 

I know!most of my band mates are married with kids and mortgages etc,it's never appealed to me tbh.....

I do have a partner and 2 grown up stepkids(19 yr daughter,26 yr old son)and a dog though.....I just don't live with them full time mate!

I hope I never 'grow out of my twenties'as u put it! .......I'll be playing drums until the day I die!

I think what Dave is trying to say is nobody gives a sh i t about your earnings or savings in reality with your cars and vans your in Debt although being in your twenty's is certainly a blast  . My brother is a bit like you no kids or mortgage etc and its a good break when i stay at his but must admit i do like coming home to the kids afterwards they are a complete pain in the ass but wouldn't change it for anything.

[dazmond]

I haven't got 3 women on the go like I did in my twenties though....I don't think I'd have the energy these days!haha

[p1w1]

I haven't got 3 women on the go like I did in my twenties though....I don't think I'd have the energy these days!haha

Thats the downside of getting older 

[NWH]

They all say I like going home to my kids lol,all I’ve heard is if I had my time again I wouldn’t have bothered 😂 each to there own I suppose.
I know a lot of people with kids I also know a lot of kids that talk and treat there parents like dirt.

[combat1]

So, being honest, what do we reckon is an expected Turnover for a sole operator working say 6 hrs on the glass 5 days a week for 40 weeks a year?
I think some honest answers may help a few to see where they are compared to others.

[dazmond]

So, being honest, what do we reckon is an expected Turnover for a sole operator working say 6 hrs on the glass 5 days a week for 40 weeks a year?
I think some honest answers may help a few to see where they are compared to others.

do you take 3 months off every year then?thats going to reduce your earnings a fair bit.......

i used to turnover around £18k a year when trad only....9 years later its around £45k WFP....based on 46 weeks a year 4 or 5 days a week.....

as long as you have enough to cover your bills with a bit left over...anything else is a bonus....

[nathankaye]

So, being honest, what do we reckon is an expected Turnover for a sole operator working say 6 hrs on the glass 5 days a week for 40 weeks a year?
I think some honest answers may help a few to see where they are compared to others.

Not really.   So districts and counties dont come into play at all?   What one person thinks is high, might be actually low in their district

[NWH]

I had this conversation last week 25-30 is expected to be submitted as net,of course this is not going to be the same in every area and depending on what you do.
All trades have an average and I’ve been informed this is the sole trader average for us.

[cleaniac]

IMO its not worth taking any more than £35k a year in wages anyway. The amount of tax you start to pay when it nudges £40k and the self employed payment on accounts is a killer at that level for small sole trader businesses, assuming of course you report your earnings accurately. 

This is why i went LTD, my business is set to turn over an actual real throughput of  £55k of real cash by the end of March, not based on a customer list, this is actual accounts which is quite different.  I get 15 grand a year, the misses the same on PAYE..bills paid no worries.

Rest of the money stays in the business, i can draw some dividends down if i need to and more importantly my business is separate from my personal taxation. Still only working 4 days a week also, and at around £58k on my customer list (its gone down a bit due to some halted customers)..

[Dry Clean]

So, being honest, what do we reckon is an expected Turnover for a sole operator working say 6 hrs on the glass 5 days a week for 40 weeks a year?
I think some honest answers may help a few to see where they are compared to others.

The honest answer is the one quoted at the start of this thread, its from HMRC, there's no way you're going to get a true reflection on what shiners earn from actual shiners, remember most shiners tend to be ashamed/embarrassed about what they do for a living so big up their earnings to hide that fact.

[zesty]

IMO its not worth taking any more than £35k a year in wages anyway. The amount of tax you start to pay when it nudges £40k and the self employed payment on accounts is a killer at that level for small sole trader businesses, assuming of course you report your earnings accurately. 

This is why i went LTD, my business is set to turn over an actual real throughput of  £55k of real cash by the end of March, not based on a customer list, this is actual accounts which is quite different.  I get 15 grand a year, the misses the same on PAYE..bills paid no worries.

Rest of the money stays in the business, i can draw some dividends down if i need to and more importantly my business is separate from my personal taxation. Still only working 4 days a week also, and at around £58k on my customer list (its gone down a bit due to some halted customers)..

Tax is a mare, especially paying on account. I also hate having to pay in July as well.

Thinking of going Ltd myself, but only if the wife stops working so she can be take some of my wage to reduce tax.

[cleaniac]

IMO its not worth taking any more than £35k a year in wages anyway. The amount of tax you start to pay when it nudges £40k and the self employed payment on accounts is a killer at that level for small sole trader businesses, assuming of course you report your earnings accurately. 

This is why i went LTD, my business is set to turn over an actual real throughput of  £55k of real cash by the end of March, not based on a customer list, this is actual accounts which is quite different.  I get 15 grand a year, the misses the same on PAYE..bills paid no worries.

Rest of the money stays in the business, i can draw some dividends down if i need to and more importantly my business is separate from my personal taxation. Still only working 4 days a week also, and at around £58k on my customer list (its gone down a bit due to some halted customers)..

Tax is a mare, especially paying on account. I also hate having to pay in July as well.

Thinking of going Ltd myself, but only if the wife stops working so she can be take some of my wage to reduce tax.

Shouldnt matter if the wife is still working, its still going to be better for you to go LTD.

If you are turning over more than £35k a year as a sole trader, you really are at the limit of what you can do and will start to pay too much in tax, but more importantly you will become a target from HMRC, as I was.

if you go Ltd, Take a PAYE salary (dont just take the 11500 allowance, take same wages where you pay some tax, that way you will build up NI contributions and your state pension will be worth more) Take what you need to live on, and if you need extra money for whatever, you have a dividend allowance which is tax free, and you can even borrow money from your own company and use it like a credit card if you really have to. PAYE is easier, as your company will pay the tax for you at source of wages, no payments on account.  Corporation tax is only 19 percent and that's due to go down again, plus no payments on account for that either.

Only downside is accounts and accountants, fees can be high especially in the 1st year of transfer from sole trader to ltd status if done correctly to the book..