[a900]

I find it very interesting that your water was cold when it came out the exchanger. That tells us that all the energy was removed to the pole hose. My exchanger output is still toasty using the 9kw.

It was because of one of your other posts explaining the 5kw heat issue for 2 people that made me splash out on the Thermo 90 😂😂

Did you ever try it without the thermostatic valve to see if you could get more temperate?
What about running the hot input on the coolant loop to first mix with the output side of the heat exchanger?

[a900]

Yeah feet would defo need changing on that pump.  It it gives an idea that a recirculation pump can be inexpensive. Seen someone reviewing that pump and seems decent for the money. If you already have a spare pump makes sense to use that.

When mines running at 1.8kw there is very little heat out the exhaust compared to full power. So I presume more efficient at that range. Either way I’m waiting for delivery of an egr cooler off a ford which will get put Inline with the exhaust to preheat the water. For now I’m going to preheat the water on the second set up with it. As that is used by my helper and we’re running a gas boiler on his set up for now to use the remaining bottles of gas I have. The boiler has a temperature display on so will be interesting to see what temp it has coming into it when turning the switch on with no gas hooked up

[Spruce]

I just looked at your setup you did and the thing that struck me was the amount of complex copper pipe you put in it that was not insulated , do you think this was a factor in losing so much heat and only getting 35 at the head .
Was that the only build or were there simpler ones first ?

This was the only build. I was aware that a certain amount of heat would be lost to the atmosphere with that copper piping. But the vast majority of heat is lost through the exhaust. It was enough to tell me that the 5.2kw  Webasto Thermo Top C wasn't man enough to supply a 2 man system. I didn't realise that a large portion of the quoted 5.2kw didn't account for heat loss. I had planned to box the unit is fully to contain the heat loss later, but as the results were so far away from reality, I discontinued the project.

Before I built this the formula told me that 5.2kw would manage to provide enough heat for 2 of us; enough to get our water warm and hoses supple.

I then bought a 9.1kw Heatwave which was spares or repair. Its all working now, but as the van I had and still have is falling apart with rust, I decided that when I got a replacement van I would fit it to that. But my current van has lasted longer than I though it would with a bit of patching here and there.

I also lost some of my enthusiasm for this  project as the price of diesel was going up and later coils of hose are not as stiff as the first batches were 10 - 12 years ago in the winter.

[Spruce]

I find it very interesting that your water was cold when it came out the exchanger. That tells us that all the energy was removed to the pole hose. My exchanger output is still toasty using the 9kw.

It was because of one of your other posts explaining the 5kw heat issue for 2 people that made me splash out on the Thermo 90 😂😂 I'm glad that this experiment helped you as well.

Did you ever try it without the thermostatic valve to see if you could get more temperate?
What about running the hot input on the coolant loop to first mix with the output side of the heat exchanger?

I had thermostatic valves on 2 of the heat exchangers as you can see. No I didn't remove them. I had the temperature set to max on the thermostatic valve and the temperature wasn't reaching it.

As I mentioned earlier, this experiment wasn't scientific. It was to give me a sense of direction. The water coming out of the heat exchanger felt cold. I may have been 10 or 12 degrees but I didn't actually measure it.

Over the years since then there are a lot more diesel heaters about. Users are saying the a 5.2 Webasto based unit isn't powerful enough to run a single operator system successfully. I proved that to myself and learnt a lot in the process. The 9.1 works better and due to its being more powerful and having different programming (3 stage heating) is more suited to window cleaning application IMHO.

The Thermo Top C is perfect for what it was designed for - as a diesel engine preheater for vehicles used in countries that experience extreme cold conditions.

I have plans to put this Webasto Thermo Top C into my Peugeot Boxer and use it as it was intended for, to preheat the engine and defrost the windscreen in winter. Will I ever get around to doing it? I don't know. The mind is willing but the body isn't anymore I'm afraid.

[Spruce]

Yeah feet would defo need changing on that pump.  It it gives an idea that a recirculation pump can be inexpensive. Seen someone reviewing that pump and seems decent for the money. If you already have a spare pump makes sense to use that.

When mines running at 1.8kw there is very little heat out the exhaust compared to full power.

That's interesting. Could it have something to do with your fuel experiment?

So I presume more efficient at that range. Either way I’m waiting for delivery of an egr cooler off a ford which will get put Inline with the exhaust to preheat the water. For now I’m going to preheat the water on the second set up with it. As that is used by my helper and we’re running a gas boiler on his set up for now to use the remaining bottles of gas I have. The boiler has a temperature display on so will be interesting to see what temp it has coming into it when turning the switch on with no gas hooked up

Ford EGR cooler - interesting idea. 

[a900]

Ill let you know my findings 😂😂

Using one like this ... (can’t upload photos) https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253976118372

Going to cut the ends off and put 38mm tube on and fit it near the outlet of the exhaust. Like inline. Shouldn’t reduce the exhaust gas flow.

The outlets on those coolers are 28mm and didn’t want to reduce it down hence cutting off and putting full size tube on

[P @ F]

I was looking at these for a previous idea I had , looks like it would be easier to decoke with the open end

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-Valve-Cooler-For-FORD-TRANSIT-MK7-2006-2015-2-4-DIESEL-1674960-6C1Q-9F464-BD/283125766991?hash=item41eb9c5b4f:g:ZfAAAOSwXUdbg6af

[a900]

I was looking for a solution that meant no welding but looks like there isn’t anything available that is the right size. Conventiently I have w family member who can weld and has scrap metal tube lying around to.

I should be able to know if it’s worth it by new year. Or until the Patents come through 😂😂

[P @ F]

This one has main unit dimensions down the page a bit

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-COOLER-FOR-FORD-TRANSIT-MK7-2-4-DIESEL-2006-2015-1674960-6C1Q-9F464-BD/232289560755?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D52945%26meid%3D72b51141bb07440ab6ef46a080887c55%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D283125766991%26itm%3D232289560755&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[P @ F]

That is where I am lucky as I can weld !

[a900]

That is where I am lucky as I can weld !

Excellent skill to have. Which I would get and learn 😂

Went with the egr in like in the link Cus I thought it would be easier to hole saw and place 38mm OD tubing in than getting one I would neeed to make up some sort of reducer funnel. Will try it out when I get all the bits. But by time it’s ready will be over christmas and won’t be testing till back to work in the new year.

Honestly I think there isn’t a huge amount of heat in the exhaust that can be efficiently collected without causing a restriction in the exhaust. Interested  these burners are rated to put out 9.1kw off 1.1l of diesel. 1.1l of diesel contains 10kw of energy. So either most of the diesel does work or the 9kw is laughable figure.

If it’s efficient the exhaust should be cooler than it was before fitting the erg exchanger

[P @ F]

I dont think that the exhaust gases that you get left with are actually that hot , it seems to be a build up of heat in the pipe itself , I saw a guy get what I think he called a FLIR and pointed the laser at the exhaust pipe   and he was reading the max of his FLIR which went to 150*c
Maybe the better pre heating device would be 8 or 10 mm copper pipe wrapped around the exhaust ! 

[a900]

I dont think that the exhaust gases that you get left with are actually that hot , it seems to be a build up of heat in the pipe itself , I saw a guy get what I think he called a FLIR and pointed the laser at the exhaust pipe   and he was reading the max of his FLIR which went to 150*c
Maybe the better pre heating device would be 8 or 10 mm copper pipe wrapped around the exhaust !

You will always get more heat from direct contact with the gasses than indirect off another surface. Also 150c is hot. I wouldn’t hold my hand at the exhaust of the burner when running full power 2 long. Remember the loop for the heat exchanger is under 90c.

There is defo the potential forheating water off the exhaust. Just to what extent I don’t know yet. But will find out. Along with build a frostat. Recirculation loop and at a second man set up off the heater for when we used up the Propane currently using for the second set up

Did you say your going to build a diesel heater set up or just thinking of it?

[P @ F]

Im thinking of all manner of nonsense at the moment , its just havin the balls to try it and come out on top .
What I really want is to find the type of heat exchanger that is in an Eccotemp L5 but half the size , so far they are either not out there or are hiding from me 

[Spruce]

Im thinking of all manner of nonsense at the moment , its just havin the balls to try it and come out on top .
What I really want is to find the type of heat exchanger that is in an Eccotemp L5 but half the size , so far they are either not out there or are hiding from me 

The L5 is very compact which you wont achieve with anything else. But what destroys gas heating is the size of the gas bottle and the safety aspect surrounding the carrying of gas. Yes you can get small gas bottles but swapping them out becomes a drama and becomes more expensive.
For me, I also don't agree with venting these heaters into the van and leaving a door open for the exhaust gasses to escape.

[a900]

I wonder if you’ve got a Chinese heater and using the hot air output to heat the water

I’ve just got myself another uk exchangers plate heat exchanger for £16 on eBay. Bargin.

Still waiting for parts myself to set up the frostat and idle circuit

[Spruce]

I wonder if you’ve got a Chinese heater and using the hot air output to heat the water

I’ve just got myself another uk exchangers plate heat exchanger for £16 on eBay. Bargin.

Still waiting for parts myself to set up the frostat and idle circuit

I don't think so tbh. The hot air that comes out of my Eberspacher Airtronic air heater isn't that hot. Its too hot to put your hand infront of the grill but then you have still got to have a second heat exchanger that has an internal pipe structure that will stand whatever pressure your pump runs at or is regulated to.

What ever happened to the Chinese copies of the Webasto Thermo Top C heaters? They came onto the market a couple of years ago and disappeared just as fast.  A couple of the wfp diesel heaters suppliers did fit them. Using a cheaper heater cut costs and made them more margin on their sale.

[P @ F]

I did see a company called VKKB on youtube that had a similar thing but could not find a price for them

[P @ F]

It actually works by jiggery  😁

[Jonny 87]

That looks nice and safe. 

You getting good temps?