[p1w1]

Hi Paul

Yes I am well. Things must be going well for you as you are taking the plunge to go hot. Good luck with it all.

Best wishes, David

To be honest mate i've toyed with the idea for a couple of winters now, im unable to fit a heater element and i can't really leave extension cables out during the night to keep the van from freezing up  and at the age now i cant be bothered with the hassle of unfreezing pumps and hoses in the mornings..anything to make my working day easier now, dont think ill really use it in the summer for everyday jobs but i do some third floor commercial and a few other jobs were it will make it a bit easier.

[dazmond]

If you buy 1 of these heaters 5-9kw you will need the mains hookup that grippa fit,it’s a 3 pin plug I have 1 attached to the side of the outside of my van so when it needs a charge I plug in overnight come out in the morning and unplug and ready to go for another couple of weeks.
Like I say you do need this or you will have to unclip and carry 2 batteries indoors to charge,if you don’t do as much driving as me you’ll be doing it often with these heaters. Since I’ve had this fitted I’ve never had battery issues,add another 1000 onto the heater price though.

you dont need a 3 pin plug socket on the side of your van,just a decent commercial charger like the numax 20amp "connect and forget"(you can buy them for around £100) and plug in using a normal extension lead......

i charge mine overnight every night to keep them in good condition,also if the frost stat kicks in a few times then it takes a little out of the batteries which then is easily topped up before i start work...

[P @ F]

Spruce  , this is what made me think of trying my own ,  but I see that you have already been there and done it , looks like too much of a headache to me   
But i see that this guys shut down at temp too , although not completely it seems , who knows ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfPMQw3toU

[NWH]

It’s hassle Daz I have an outside socket on my house I just run the cable into the side of the van m8 it takes 30 seconds I go in and forget about it. I wanted a no hassle setup I don’t have to go into the van at all to charge batteries.

[Spruce]

Spruce  , this is what made me think of trying my own ,  but I see that you have already been there and done it , looks like too much of a headache to me   
But i see that this guys shut down at temp too , although not completely it seems , who knows ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfPMQw3toU

I saw that a while back. Unfortunately those guys were so busy talking rubbish beating their chests in triumph that they never noticed the unit going into half heat mode.  Even although the heater goes into shut down mode the water pump still continues to circulate water through the system.  Its on standby mode.  The pump will only stop circulating water when the unit is switched off.
When they added cold water to the bucket the boiler went into power up mode when the water's temperature dropped to 69 degrees C.  Now when window cleaning, we would zap most of the heat from that bucket of water before the boiler had completely powered up again.
And this is when a small boiler would battle. You will be zapping all the heat from the boiler and the boiler just isn't powerful enough to put in extra to add heat back into reserve.
The Peugeot 807 heater is the same heater that fits the Citroen C8 as it is the same  vehicle. The problem with that heater is that it sits under the car and collects all the road muck off the wheels. The Rover 75 heater mounts up in the engine bay and is in a much better environment.

Eberspacher has a new 12kw hydronic diesel heater. That could be an interesting option as it doesn't use that much more fuel than the 9kw.

If I had the energy I would like to fit my Thermo Top C into the new  (for me) Boxer van that I have waiting in the wings. I would put it back to being an engine block heater as well as a defroster.
I have a diesel air heater in my current van and it works well, but it doesn't warm the engine as well as the cabin which is something I would like.

[Jonny 87]

Spruce have you researched these new lines of Webasto heaters? I had an interesting conversation with grippatank. Oliver can build theses systems in his sleep, and is very well read on them.

These new wave heaters are different to the old.

One of there primary uses is in coaches providing hot water for the toilets. So if you imagine, they are switching off and on again very often, but they kick out hot water just when it’s needed.

Also the old problem of sooting up the chamber of your unit as it goes into shut down mode many times over the day has been rectified. The technology inside them is a lot more advanced now. If it starts powering back up (or down) and senses more diesel than it needs, it dumps that fuel and burns it off. The old ones didn’t do that.

[John Mart]

Yeah I used to think like that then when my accounts were due I used to get told to sit down while on the phone about to be told my bill,I try and spend what I can now,the amount of Tax I’ve paid when I could of replaced equipment with that money is sickening.

So you are saying you would spend a pound needed or not just to save 20p.

[Spruce]

Spruce have you researched these new lines of Webasto heaters? I had an interesting conversation with grippatank. Oliver can build theses systems in his sleep, and is very well read on them.

These new wave heaters are different to the old.

One of there primary uses is in coaches providing hot water for the toilets. So if you imagine, they are switching off and on again very often, but they kick out hot water just when it’s needed.

Also the old problem of sooting up the chamber of your unit as it goes into shut down mode many times over the day has been rectified. The technology inside them is a lot more advanced now. If it starts powering back up (or down) and senses more diesel than it needs, it dumps that fuel and burns it off. The old ones didn’t do that.

Have you got a link to these new wave heaters you are refering to please?

Looking at Daz's photo of his unit, its exactly the same 9kw Webasto as its always been. A diesel heater needs a hot glow plug and time to ignite the diesel. It also needs a shutdown period where it cools the combustion chamber down and stops the introduction of fuel into the burner unit and burns off any residue fuel still inside the burner. It isn't like a gas boiler that has instant ignition and can be switched off instantly either.

Webasto have a new range of Thermo Top Evo's, 3, 4 & 5. The 5 produces the same output as the Thermo top C and the 3 about half the heat output. The smallest unit probably would work best on a coach as it would just need to heat a small calorifier. But then there is also the facility of a water to water plate heat exchanger added to the bus's cooling system to provide heat for washbasin use. As long as the bus's engine is warm, you will have warm water.

The new Thermo Top Evos look like an evolution of the Eberspacher hydronic heater. Webasto bought out Eberspacher a few years ago.

[p1w1]

If you buy 1 of these heaters 5-9kw you will need the mains hookup that grippa fit,it’s a 3 pin plug I have 1 attached to the side of the outside of my van so when it needs a charge I plug in overnight come out in the morning and unplug and ready to go for another couple of weeks.
Like I say you do need this or you will have to unclip and carry 2 batteries indoors to charge,if you don’t do as much driving as me you’ll be doing it often with these heaters. Since I’ve had this fitted I’ve never had battery issues,add another 1000 onto the heater price though.

you dont need a 3 pin plug socket on the side of your van,just a decent commercial charger like the numax 20amp "connect and forget"(you can buy them for around £100) and plug in using a normal extension lead......

i charge mine overnight every night to keep them in good condition,also if the frost stat kicks in a few times then it takes a little out of the batteries which then is easily topped up before i start work...

I will do the same I'm sure that extra couple of seconds to open a door won't be to much hassle  , plus I will save a £1000 on fitting a plug   

[NWH]

I had a mains charger with split charge from grippa,you would be surprised there’s a lot of work involved running wires etc he came at 9 and didn’t leave till about 7,worked flat out like I say I just want to plug in and go indoors sod lifting batteries about I was doing that.
It’s all about making the job as easy as possible for me I don’t reel in anymore and I use poles no heavier than a snooker cue that’ll donme thanks.

[Jonny 87]

Spruce have you researched these new lines of Webasto heaters? I had an interesting conversation with grippatank. Oliver can build theses systems in his sleep, and is very well read on them.

These new wave heaters are different to the old.

One of there primary uses is in coaches providing hot water for the toilets. So if you imagine, they are switching off and on again very often, but they kick out hot water just when it’s needed.

Also the old problem of sooting up the chamber of your unit as it goes into shut down mode many times over the day has been rectified. The technology inside them is a lot more advanced now. If it starts powering back up (or down) and senses more diesel than it needs, it dumps that fuel and burns it off. The old ones didn’t do that.

Have you got a link to these new wave heaters you are refering to please?

Looking at Daz's photo of his unit, its exactly the same 9kw Webasto as its always been. A diesel heater needs a hot glow plug and time to ignite the diesel. It also needs a shutdown period where it cools the combustion chamber down and stops the introduction of fuel into the burner unit and burns off any residue fuel still inside the burner. It isn't like a gas boiler that has instant ignition and can be switched off instantly either.

Webasto have a new range of Thermo Top Evo's, 3, 4 & 5. The 5 produces the same output as the Thermo top C and the 3 about half the heat output. The smallest unit probably would work best on a coach as it would just need to heat a small calorifier. But then there is also the facility of a water to water plate heat exchanger added to the bus's cooling system to provide heat for washbasin use. As long as the bus's engine is warm, you will have warm water.

The new Thermo Top Evos look like an evolution of the Eberspacher hydronic heater. Webasto bought out Eberspacher a few years ago.

I’m Just going by the conversation I had with the engineers mate.

Im pretty sure when I looked into these a while ago, the units have been updated. Have you always been able to plug into the units and get full diagnostics? You can now.


https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-uk/product-overview/product/show/thermo-pro-90-1/

[Splash & dash]

Spruce have you researched these new lines of Webasto heaters? I had an interesting conversation with grippatank. Oliver can build theses systems in his sleep, and is very well read on them.

These new wave heaters are different to the old.

One of there primary uses is in coaches providing hot water for the toilets. So if you imagine, they are switching off and on again very often, but they kick out hot water just when it’s needed.

Also the old problem of sooting up the chamber of your unit as it goes into shut down mode many times over the day has been rectified. The technology inside them is a lot more advanced now. If it starts powering back up (or down) and senses more diesel than it needs, it dumps that fuel and burns it off. The old ones didn’t do that.

Have you got a link to these new wave heaters you are refering to please?

Looking at Daz's photo of his unit, its exactly the same 9kw Webasto as its always been. A diesel heater needs a hot glow plug and time to ignite the diesel. It also needs a shutdown period where it cools the combustion chamber down and stops the introduction of fuel into the burner unit and burns off any residue fuel still inside the burner. It isn't like a gas boiler that has instant ignition and can be switched off instantly either.

Webasto have a new range of Thermo Top Evo's, 3, 4 & 5. The 5 produces the same output as the Thermo top C and the 3 about half the heat output. The smallest unit probably would work best on a coach as it would just need to heat a small calorifier. But then there is also the facility of a water to water plate heat exchanger added to the bus's cooling system to provide heat for washbasin use. As long as the bus's engine is warm, you will have warm water.

The new Thermo Top Evos look like an evolution of the Eberspacher hydronic heater. Webasto bought out Eberspacher a few years ago.

I’m Just going by the conversation I had with the engineers mate.

Im pretty sure when I looked into these a while ago, the units have been updated. Have you always been able to plug into the units and get full diagnostics? You can now.


https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-uk/product-overview/product/show/thermo-pro-90-1/

Mine is now 4 years old and you can plug that into diagnostics will give a full read out of everything it’s done and hours run Oliver did show me some of it quite intresting actually

[dazmond]

I had a mains charger with split charge from grippa,you would be surprised there’s a lot of work involved running wires etc he came at 9 and didn’t leave till about 7,worked flat out like I say I just want to plug in and go indoors sod lifting batteries about I was doing that.
It’s all about making the job as easy as possible for me I don’t reel in anymore and I use poles no heavier than a snooker cue that’ll donme thanks.

you dont have to take the batteries out!just connect the charger to ONE battery(it charges them both up)that are down the side of my tank,plug into extension lead and bobs your uncle....it takes less than a min....

[dd]

I had a mains charger with split charge from grippa,you would be surprised there’s a lot of work involved running wires etc he came at 9 and didn’t leave till about 7,worked flat out like I say I just want to plug in and go indoors sod lifting batteries about I was doing that.
It’s all about making the job as easy as possible for me I don’t reel in anymore and I use poles no heavier than a snooker cue that’ll donme thanks.

you dont have to take the batteries out!just connect the charger to ONE battery(it charges them both up)that are down the side of my tank,plug into extension lead and bobs your uncle....it takes less than a min....

Yes, but it reduces NWH's tax bill, and the 20 seconds he saves each night - he would never get that part of his life back again.

[NWH]

I connect it up to my belled end just like you ddddo every night

[P @ F]

NWH , if you had all the bits needed to build a system why did you buy one , out of interest ?

[P @ F]

Spruce , you mentioned you had an air heater earlier , the type that have many chinese copies on youtube , I have been looking at them and see that the exhaust itself can get up to over 100*c , do you think that it is at all possible to convert the exhaust to a solid pipe and wrap it with 10mm copper microbore , I reckon 10m of copper microbore would give about 100 wraps , could you gain a decent temp from that ?
 

[NWH]

Like I said I wanted another 1 the 9kw and I haven’t spent much money this year on tools equipment,a couple of years ago I spent little and ended up paying a lot more tax.

[Don Kee]

Like I said I wanted another 1 the 9kw and I haven’t spent much money this year on tools equipment,a couple of years ago I spent little and ended up paying a lot more tax.

Which means you should have had a lot more disposable income

[Spruce]

Spruce , you mentioned you had an air heater earlier , the type that have many chinese copies on youtube , I have been looking at them and see that the exhaust itself can get up to over 100*c , do you think that it is at all possible to convert the exhaust to a solid pipe and wrap it with 10mm copper microbore , I reckon 10m of copper microbore would give about 100 wraps , could you gain a decent temp from that ?
 

The exhaust temperature I'm informed can reach 200 degrees C on a Thermo Top C. It would be possible to wrap a coil of copper tube around the exhaust and remove some of that wasted heat. Here's a video clip of one but he doesn't provided a step by step diy tutorial.

https://youtu.be/Kn_VTsiMsZU

This was a topic for discussion on the other forum recently and I'm informed the a liebig condenser is what the vegetable oil users use to warm the oil to run their engines.



I'm told that this works but not very effectively.

The thing is that these heaters are primarily air heaters and you have to do something with that hot air.

There's another cleaner in Andover who uses his Thermo Top C to heat the water in the tank. He has fitted the exhaust silencer into a diy metal box and uses a computer cooling fan to blow the heat into the back of the van to warm that up rather than wasting it to the atmosphere. Obviously the exhaust is then routed out of the van.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RD_Hw2y6yw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWJob7anCgg&t=22s