[KS Cleaning]

So as I said I put my 3kw immersion on at 10.30 last night, didn’t take a reading of the temperature of the water but it was a cold weekend and was -1 last night when I plugged it in so water would have been really cold,  Unplugged it at 8 this morning, drove to first job so the water had a chance to slosh around,  took temp reading, temp of water at top was 45 temp at bottom of tank was 42 , that is approx 500 litres of water in a 650 litre tank. I was left with approx 150 litres at 2.45, temp of water was 29 ( no inslation used ). Will take another reading tonight and tomorrow and report the results.

Interesting.
I didn't post my results and same as you I didn't take a before temp reading. But after driving for a good half hour and cleaning a large house I then took a reading.
My post above shows when I turned mine on and off and the reading was 51 at the top ofthe tank.  But as all know my tank is insulated and I will take a reading ofthe water before I top the tank up but this won't be till towards half eight once I've sorted kids for bed

So a little later than 8. Sorted the water just gone 9pm.



So the above is temps before the top up and below  is the water level I've filled it to (so you can guess what the amount is (full is 500ltr upright wydale) and the start temp after a refill



I'm leaving the immersion on from 9 pm till 7am.

I don’t understand how after a day’s work there is a 5 degrees difference in the water from the top of the tank to the water at the bottom of the tank? Surely if you have done a days work there is at most 200 litres left in your tank? so after the water sloshing about in your tank all day long, along with the fact there shouldn’ be much depth of water left in your tank how is there such a difference in temp from the water at the bottom of your tank to the temperature of the water at the top? IMO all you have proved is that you have hardly used any water today.
Edit: And then to only drop around 7 degrees after a ‘ top up ‘ would also suggest that you haven’t had to top up much at all.

[nathankaye]

Today's work hasn't been a constant on the glass, your right.
But using more jets ect even though in theory one may use more water, the reality is that, that isn't always the case.
If you look on this subject over the past, when I've posted or even filmed the results late at night, I haven't lost that much in terms of degrees from the start ofthe working day. That is due to the tank being insulated, which I highly recommend to anyone using an immersion heater, regardless of what kilowatt it is.

Your experiment is very useful as your tank isn't insulated, which also gives you the opportunity to insulate the tank and record the difference between the two perhaps. As I insulated my tank before I even did an immersion and so I have no previous records to compare

[Dry Clean]

Today's work hasn't been a constant on the glass, your right.
But using more jets ect even though in theory one may use more water, the reality is that, that isn't always the case.
If you look on this subject over the past, when I've posted or even filmed the results late at night, I haven't lost that much in terms of degrees from the start ofthe working day. That is due to the tank being insulated, which I highly recommend to anyone using an immersion heater, regardless of what kilowatt it is.

Your experiment is very useful as your tank isn't insulated, which also gives you the opportunity to insulate the tank and record the difference between the two perhaps. As I insulated my tank before I even did an immersion and so I have no previous records to compare

[Smudger]

Today's work hasn't been a constant on the glass, your right.
But using more jets ect even though in theory one may use more water, the reality is that, that isn't always the case.
If you look on this subject over the past, when I've posted or even filmed the results late at night, I haven't lost that much in terms of degrees from the start ofthe working day. That is due to the tank being insulated, which I highly recommend to anyone using an immersion heater, regardless of what kilowatt it is.

Your experiment is very useful as your tank isn't insulated, which also gives you the opportunity to insulate the tank and record the difference between the two perhaps. As I insulated my tank before I even did an immersion and so I have no previous records to compare

Stop it - I can’t bear any more tantrums or handbag throwing 😂

Darran

[nathankaye]

Look, I never said my way works best and everyone copy it.  But I can't be the only one who didn't buy just to make do., ie I can make do with a 350 tank so I won't get a bigger one to ensure I never run out or future plans. But we all  know your just a "make do" type of guy Sean!
Daz has treated himself to a very nice system but for most, they can't afford it nor the running costs and would rather shoot him down for it as well.  Some people on here are truly worse than my little kids for paddy throwing, jealous rants and madness. It's unbelievable at times it really is!   
But I'm sure Daz doesn't share this info in order for you guys to think about following his example.  The same is true for me.  I now use a 2kw, 27inch element in an insulated tank and I make it work for me and the way that I work. Not everyone can, end off.
Question for ones who rely on the calculations on heating water.  As I'm a simpleton.
But does a 27inch element make a difference compare to a 20inch or a 14" element ofthe same kilowatt. You can even get 12inch ones I believe, so does size make a difference to how the heat is transferred and is this taken into consideration.  If a tank is insulated and heat is not lost, does this make a difference and factored in.
I know if I reheat a kettle after it switches off and cools a little that it doesn't take as long to reboil compared to refilling with cold water.

Some are happy with cold, some are happy with warm, whilst others are happy with Hot. Sadly some are miserable $ods and look to argue at others on their way of working, perhaps at a distraction from their own miserable self.

[Dry Clean]

Nathan both KS and Combats findings are consistent or as near as possible with the heating calculators and as per usual yours never come anywhere near, in other words you are either wrong or not giving out all the facts, its not miserable or jealous to point this out.
Dazmonds heater is between him and his wallet but if he is going to make untrue claims about the performance of cold water then its also not miserable or jealous to disagree with him.
Im not going to go over the difference between  fixing what is broken and faffing again because its obvious you dont get it, a kw of heat/energy is a kw of heat/energy no matter the lenght of the element, the only difference will be the way the heat circulates in the tank but the end result will be the same.

[nathankaye]

Yes, but the timings won't.
There's so many variable questions. Malcom (or Jeff goldblum's character from jurassic park) comes to mind.

Anyway, coffee break over, back to my steady day job
 

[Dry Clean]

Yes, but the timings won't.
There's so many variable questions. Malcom (or Jeff goldblum's character from jurassic park) comes to mind.

Anyway, coffee break over, back to my steady day job
 

The only variable will be insulation, the heating calculators give the best performance possible therefore if your heating times where better than others but still under these times then you would have a point but this isn't the case.

[Dave Willis]

I heated my 1000l tank last night with my 1 KW element for half an hour. Water was hot enough for my shower on the drive and because I’ve insulated my tank I made a cup of tea with boiling water by lunchtime, earned £300,  used twenty litres of water, made a video and will be pushing for 90k this month. 

[KS Cleaning]

Look, I never said my way works best and everyone copy it.  But I can't be the only one who didn't buy just to make do., ie I can make do with a 350 tank so I won't get a bigger one to ensure I never run out or future plans. But we all  know your just a "make do" type of guy Sean!
Daz has treated himself to a very nice system but for most, they can't afford it nor the running costs and would rather shoot him down for it as well.  Some people on here are truly worse than my little kids for paddy throwing, jealous rants and madness. It's unbelievable at times it really is!   
But I'm sure Daz doesn't share this info in order for you guys to think about following his example.  The same is true for me.  I now use a 2kw, 27inch element in an insulated tank and I make it work for me and the way that I work. Not everyone can, end off.
Question for ones who rely on the calculations on heating water.  As I'm a simpleton.
But does a 27inch element make a difference compare to a 20inch or a 14" element ofthe same kilowatt. You can even get 12inch ones I believe, so does size make a difference to how the heat is transferred and is this taken into consideration.  If a tank is insulated and heat is not lost, does this make a difference and factored in.
I know if I reheat a kettle after it switches off and cools a little that it doesn't take as long to reboil compared to refilling with cold water.

Some are happy with cold, some are happy with warm, whilst others are happy with Hot. Sadly some are miserable $ods and look to argue at others on their way of working, perhaps at a distraction from their own miserable self.

There’s certainly no jealousy on my part, the way you are using your immersion works for you and that’s great but it’s pretty obvious to get the results you do that you are going home with a lot of warm water when you have completed your work. The clues to this are easy to see as I have already pointed out.

 1. After your working day you took a reading at 9 pm of the water remaining in your tank, there was a difference in temperature of 5 degrees between the water at the bottom of the tank and the water at the top of the tank, this would suggest you had a lot of water left over in your tank.

2. After topping up with cold water from your IBC tank into your van tank you only lost around 7 degrees, again this would suggest that there was a lot of warm water left over in your van tank.

There is no problem with this and it’s great you’re getting hot water from your immersion, but I do think you are being a bit economical with the truth when it comes to showing the temperatures you are achieving. Even using insulation, the large majority of immersion users won’t get such results as they won’t be going home with as much water as you do at the end of the shift. 

[nathankaye]

Don't forget the use of hand warmers chucked in as well to speed the process up a little
😂😂

End of the day, take as much mickey as you like and I will take comfort in the comforts I have for work and the relative ease in which I have them. Allowing me to have a productive yet steady day at work, where if I choose to have a pub lunch ie a carvery I can do so without worry if I will get my work done or not.  Or if I fancy a long wknd off work I can do so without it mucking my routine up etc etc etc.
But I do enjoy reading how one's bench press this weight n that, but moan over what they call an heavy brush 😏
Or how one's highlight their hourly earnings yet squabble about paying for this n that when it comes to work stuff.
When life has its own challenges and gripes but no, let's all moan at each other for how they can n can't heat water or use a spray bar or jets or even fan jets or how many vans one person has got compared to the other or if its an old van, new van, clean or dirty
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[nathankaye]

KS cleaning, that's the point exactly.
I'm sure some would agree that they perhaps use more water than they actually need to in order to get good results. Some have even said themselves, that unless they've rinsed several times they don't feel its clean. Not that it isn't clean, but they Feel it's not clean. But granted if ones are using a 350ltr flat tank with an immersion they will struggle. Even using a 350ltr upright and using 250 litres or 300 litres they will struggle as their start temps are much different to mine. So it's upto them which length and power element they use and how long they run it for is also upto them.
Now I've said many a times that I don't use anywhere near 500litres a day, a fact I've never shed away from. However how much I use varies from day to day, pending my work load. The same as anyone, but some days I don't need to clean more than ten houses for instance whilst others need to clean a whole lot more to make the same wage etc. (yes for argument sake, some can clean less than ten for the same amount or more).
On such days, I may choose to run my element for longer, ie 9 till 8 compared to other days where its from midnight. So on a day I use less water, the next day where I need Hot water then I have a great advantage.
It's all about what works for you and your method and how you go about it.
Someone put there's on for 11hrs one night didn't they (if I recall right) and they got a temp of 60 or so, but they didn't feel the benefit of doing so and went back to their usual temp and operations. Which is perfectly fine for their requirements and no one can tell them opposite, regardless how much one's may want to try.
My way n methods work for me, I don't rely on any calculations but try through trial n error, till I get the results I want and then I will duplicate them. Its as simple as that

[Slacky]

My water's wetter than your water.

[combat1]

Thanks Nathan you have done some good stuff in helping people with immersions.
I know you have taken a lot of stick but have given valuable help and temperatures which other immersion users can compare with.
At the end of the day its great to have a warm van, pliable warm hoses, better rinsing and oh! Slightly better cleaning.
Doesn’t matter what size or kw it is so long as it suits the user.
So thanks.

[P @ F]

I still think a lot hinges on how much water you have left in the tank at what temp at the end of the day , if the tank is well insulated , so many variables , everbody is going to get different results , dont forget ambient temps play a huge part too .
I treated myself to a hot tub last summer , 800L with a 2kw heater , during the height of summer I was switching on at 10 with a temp of 29 and going up to around 38 by 3 , by mid September I was switching on at 10 with a temp of 26 and it was only up to 33 by 3 , not used the calculator to see how accurate it was but it dont matter now as its packed away , far too cold for that nonsense now 

[P @ F]

Just checked the results out and was surprised to see that summer results came in at estimated 4.2 hr , it actually took 5 hr which is close enough for me .
End of season results gave an estimate of 3.2 hr when it was actually 5hr , so start temps and ambient must play a large part !

This is why Nath gets his results , cos he's so bone idle and dont use any water over the day he has plenty of warm water left to start the overnight heat cycle with 

[AuRavelling79]

My van tank is about 80% insulated.

It has 2" insulation and ply, top and sides. 2" insulation between it and the bulkhead at the front and about one third of the back is insulated at the top. (layflat 650 wyedale)

This lets some heat into the back of the van to keep everything warmish - reels and brushes.

At present I switch on for two hours in the evening and about an hour when I wake up. I haven't checked the temperature but from last year I guess the cold water is at about 10 - 12 degrees and it's about 25 - 30 when I start with about 400/450L of water on board.

There will be about 50/100L of that slightly warm from the day before at about 20-25 degrees when I put the cold in from the storage tanks - which are in a close fitting shed with some insulation on top.

[P @ F]

So best immersion results can be obtained from looking into not only van tank insulation but feeder tank insulation also , work from production water to delivery water and you cant go wrong eh Malc 

[P @ F]

Maybe the way forward for best results on immersion route would be immersion heated supply tank which is insulated to van tank with immersion and insulation , if all is thermostatically controlled then cost should not be a big issue , maybe that will be my project next year !