[Tom-01]

so name the company............................. why the mystery?

How many vans someone has does not impress me. Could be 25 people up ladders doing front only council terraced houses all day long for £5. Van number means nothing

Lee you said you've got 10 vans out now is that correct?

[Lee Pryor]

thats right. my point above is I know people with more vans and staff than I have that do less money, so van number isnt a true indicator of very much

[Tom-01]

thats right

Two years ago you had 11 on the road? Just wondered if you scaled back, got rid of dead wood to move forward?

[Lee Pryor]

no we didnt.

We had 11 for some time before they were all out working.  1 was a spare which got written off and we are about to replace that. So right now we dont have a spare.  next year we will buy 2 more with the end goal of 12 out 1 spare

[John Mart]

https://www.tlcwindowcleaning.co.uk

[Tom-01]

https://www.tlcwindowcleaning.co.uk

24 vans out. Impressive.

[Tom-01]

Here's another thing though

All the big boys (ok not all)

But the vast majority of guys on here who are building big businesses with leaflets live down south.

The return on leaflets should be about the same all across the country i.e percentage wise.

However if you are paying £60 per 1000 and get 3 jobs averaging £20 this is much better r.o.i than if you are in an area charging £10 average.

I've tried leaflets and I don't get the return I need.

Canvassers charge 3x so whether you are getting a £10 job or £20 job it's the same r.o.i

Also with canvassing you are getting what you pay for up front, you hand over 3 grand you get 1000 of work, with leaflets you hand over 3k and the return could be anything at all, more of a lottery.

Having said that, canvassing is much more hassle, much more Messer's and by the time you factor in non payers and time wasters the r.o.i is pretty similar.

Another point though is canvassing produce more compact work, so would you rather blanket a whole city or hone in on one village and canvass it over and over again to make it really compact.

Now having said all that, both leafletting and canvassing does not come anywhere near the return that online marketing does. (Unless you are canvassing yourself and even then you have your time to factor in)

My finding personally

Canvassing... charge 3x but in reality once you factor retention rate in it works out at 6x however over time canvassed work will be more profitable as it's more compact. My best days are from canvassed work.

Leaflets...royal mail is about £60 per thousand so 10k £600 plus cost of leaflets which could be anything from £100 upwards. From 10k I would expect 20 calls and convert maybe 15 which is about  5-6x very roughly but like I say figures vary widely from one campaign to the next.

Online marketing...personally I pay between £3-5 per lead on average with and average conversion rate of 50% so i generally pay 1x clean value for customers gained this way. Now imagine if I had an average clean value of £20 the return gets even better... The downside is it's more spread out than canvassing.

Personally I now use a combination of online and canvassing, canvassing to get a foothold or a days work in a particular area then add that are to your online marketing to keep topped up in the area.

I wouldnt use a leaflet again, however I'm up north I can't get the return of the big boys down south.

Some very good points there Gomo.

I agree with the 'time spent on canvassing' bit.

I started driving again in September after three months not, due to an operation. I'm off the tools for at least a year. So I needed a few extra customers in areas where we have work, as I have someone working 3 days a week covering me, along with my full timer.

In September I kept a tally of what came in. In total we got 21 new customers, most from me canvassing specific areas. It took me a couple of hours a day, 2/3 days a week.

8 weekly jobs, with a 12 weekly in there. Average first clean price was £55, with a regular clean average of £46 per clean. 19 of them GoCardless, one on invoice, and one pays by cheque (old dear).

Perhaps from leaflets I could have got more customers, but I don't think they would have been as targeted, and probably not at the prices I got either. Also as I had been pretty much housebound for nearly 3 months it was nice to get out.

I will be doing leaflets next year for areas slightly further afield, but will carry on canvassing as for me this has been the best way to build my business locally. October not so much as new baby arrived!

[John Mart]

Here's another thing though

All the big boys (ok not all)

But the vast majority of guys on here who are building big businesses with leaflets live down south.

The return on leaflets should be about the same all across the country i.e percentage wise.

However if you are paying £60 per 1000 and get 3 jobs averaging £20 this is much better r.o.i than if you are in an area charging £10 average.

I've tried leaflets and I don't get the return I need.

Canvassers charge 3x so whether you are getting a £10 job or £20 job it's the same r.o.i

Also with canvassing you are getting what you pay for up front, you hand over 3 grand you get 1000 of work, with leaflets you hand over 3k and the return could be anything at all, more of a lottery.

Having said that, canvassing is much more hassle, much more Messer's and by the time you factor in non payers and time wasters the r.o.i is pretty similar.

Another point though is canvassing produce more compact work, so would you rather blanket a whole city or hone in on one village and canvass it over and over again to make it really compact.

Now having said all that, both leafletting and canvassing does not come anywhere near the return that online marketing does. (Unless you are canvassing yourself and even then you have your time to factor in)

My finding personally

Canvassing... charge 3x but in reality once you factor retention rate in it works out at 6x however over time canvassed work will be more profitable as it's more compact. My best days are from canvassed work.

Leaflets...royal mail is about £60 per thousand so 10k £600 plus cost of leaflets which could be anything from £100 upwards. From 10k I would expect 20 calls and convert maybe 15 which is about  5-6x very roughly but like I say figures vary widely from one campaign to the next.

Online marketing...personally I pay between £3-5 per lead on average with and average conversion rate of 50% so i generally pay 1x clean value for customers gained this way. Now imagine if I had an average clean value of £20 the return gets even better... The downside is it's more spread out than canvassing.

Personally I now use a combination of online and canvassing, canvassing to get a foothold or a days work in a particular area then add that are to your online marketing to keep topped up in the area.

I wouldnt use a leaflet again, however I'm up north I can't get the return of the big boys down south.

Some very good points there Gomo.

I agree with the 'time spent on canvassing' bit.

I started driving again in September after three months not, due to an operation. I'm off the tools for at least a year. So I needed a few extra customers in areas where we have work, as I have someone working 3 days a week covering me, along with my full timer.

In September I kept a tally of what came in. In total we got 21 new customers, most from me canvassing specific areas. It took me a couple of hours a day, 2/3 days a week.

8 weekly jobs, with a 12 weekly in there. Average first clean price was £55, with a regular clean average of £46 per clean. 19 of them GoCardless, one on invoice, and one pays by cheque (old dear).

Perhaps from leaflets I could have got more customers, but I don't think they would have been as targeted, and probably not at the prices I got either. Also as I had been pretty much housebound for nearly 3 months it was nice to get out.

I will be doing leaflets next year for areas slightly further afield, but will carry on canvassing as for me this has been the best way to build my business locally. October not so much as new baby arrived!

It’s different when you’re the one doing it. If you’re paying someone else, leaflets cost about 1/3 the price of canvassing per customer.

[Walter Mitty]

I've gone back to basics with this stuff - what worked for me at the very beginning (1991/92).  It's better this time though as I'm not desperate and I've a much better idea of what I'm doing.
Over the past couple of years my residential workload has gradually reduced as some moved away and quite a few died.  Normally, work came in at the same or higher rate without me having to lift a finger.  That's not been happening though.  Also, I lost a few commercial jobs and a couple of them went under leaving me out of pocket.
This means I have gaps in my work.

So, some days, I've been starting and finishing earlier recently to go knocking late afternoon.  It's a small start but last week I earned £51 I wouldn't have earned, and this week it's been £47.  Next week will be determined by how things go on Sunday (now the darkness is coming earlier, I will knock for a few hours on Sundays).  I'm not in a huge hurry; if I can add £30 - £60 each week to my turnover, the second time around I ought to double up on that until I increase my income to the desired level (haven't yet decided what that is).  By the time April comes around (5 months time), I should be taking about £1000 extra per 6-weekly cycle - maybe more if I up the ante.

The good bit about doing this gradually is that I don't end up with loads of first cleans each week.  I have to consider my energy levels - partly due to being older than most on here.  I'm more interested in gaining decently-priced work than quantity.

My main point though is that I've learned over the years that if I want something done, it's better to do it myself.  I've bought work before, and much of it ended up being unsuitable for various reason.  I've had someone canvass for me - similar result.
Want something done the way I want it done?  Do it myself.

The gradual increase in workload might seem laughable by some people's standards, but three to five hours a week canvassing is quite enough considering that I put in a fair bit of window cleaning time too.  Once I hit £1k a month extra, I'll probably stop.

[Tom-01]

Here's another thing though

All the big boys (ok not all)

But the vast majority of guys on here who are building big businesses with leaflets live down south.

The return on leaflets should be about the same all across the country i.e percentage wise.

However if you are paying £60 per 1000 and get 3 jobs averaging £20 this is much better r.o.i than if you are in an area charging £10 average.

I've tried leaflets and I don't get the return I need.

Canvassers charge 3x so whether you are getting a £10 job or £20 job it's the same r.o.i

Also with canvassing you are getting what you pay for up front, you hand over 3 grand you get 1000 of work, with leaflets you hand over 3k and the return could be anything at all, more of a lottery.

Having said that, canvassing is much more hassle, much more Messer's and by the time you factor in non payers and time wasters the r.o.i is pretty similar.

Another point though is canvassing produce more compact work, so would you rather blanket a whole city or hone in on one village and canvass it over and over again to make it really compact.

Now having said all that, both leafletting and canvassing does not come anywhere near the return that online marketing does. (Unless you are canvassing yourself and even then you have your time to factor in)

My finding personally

Canvassing... charge 3x but in reality once you factor retention rate in it works out at 6x however over time canvassed work will be more profitable as it's more compact. My best days are from canvassed work.

Leaflets...royal mail is about £60 per thousand so 10k £600 plus cost of leaflets which could be anything from £100 upwards. From 10k I would expect 20 calls and convert maybe 15 which is about  5-6x very roughly but like I say figures vary widely from one campaign to the next.

Online marketing...personally I pay between £3-5 per lead on average with and average conversion rate of 50% so i generally pay 1x clean value for customers gained this way. Now imagine if I had an average clean value of £20 the return gets even better... The downside is it's more spread out than canvassing.

Personally I now use a combination of online and canvassing, canvassing to get a foothold or a days work in a particular area then add that are to your online marketing to keep topped up in the area.

I wouldnt use a leaflet again, however I'm up north I can't get the return of the big boys down south.

Some very good points there Gomo.

I agree with the 'time spent on canvassing' bit.

I started driving again in September after three months not, due to an operation. I'm off the tools for at least a year. So I needed a few extra customers in areas where we have work, as I have someone working 3 days a week covering me, along with my full timer.

In September I kept a tally of what came in. In total we got 21 new customers, most from me canvassing specific areas. It took me a couple of hours a day, 2/3 days a week.

8 weekly jobs, with a 12 weekly in there. Average first clean price was £55, with a regular clean average of £46 per clean. 19 of them GoCardless, one on invoice, and one pays by cheque (old dear).

Perhaps from leaflets I could have got more customers, but I don't think they would have been as targeted, and probably not at the prices I got either. Also as I had been pretty much housebound for nearly 3 months it was nice to get out.

I will be doing leaflets next year for areas slightly further afield, but will carry on canvassing as for me this has been the best way to build my business locally. October not so much as new baby arrived!

It’s different when you’re the one doing it. If you’re paying someone else, leaflets cost about 1/3 the price of canvassing per customer.

Yeah I agree. I was making the point that targeted canvassing generally brings in better quality work. However, it takes time. But there's no cost. And as I have plenty of time, I wanted to get back out there. That's how I started my business and I enjoy it. I agree if you have lots of employees and need work you get 1000's of leaflets out with lower prices.