[Smudger]

Is that 30% from using pencil jets ?

Darran

[jonny thompson]

I agree I have been using the xline rinse bar , I’ve had a higher flow but have definitely used about a third less water than when using pencil jets, i know everyone on here loves Gardner’s products but the xline is far better in my view

[windowswashed]

Is that 30% from using pencil jets ?

Darran

Hello Darran,

I use 10mm O/Diameter flexible hose with a 8mm internal diameter running through my pole and gooseneck which allows a very good high flow of water which allows plenty of flow through both 12 and 16 inch rinse bars with my flow turned down as low as 60, no need to go higher than 68 on large commercial work.  That's using rinse bars with every hole open as that allows plenty of water to rinse on the glass in a uniformed line sheeting just above the top row of bristles with plenty of weight to pull down brick dust even on hydrophobic glass. I would never go back to 8/6mm pole hose (too slow) and never ever go back to using pencil jets  I save a good deal of water and finish majority of jobs quicker 

[Smudger]

I agree, when I started experimenting with fan jets years ago it was clear that cleaning was faster than with pencil jets - long time ago so I can’t  remember how much quicker but I do recall I was saving over 50 litres of water a day

Rinse bar could be very handy for some of our commercial work tho.

I don’t think people realise how slow pencil jets are IMO they are only supplied because they are cheap to make and fit rather than being the best way to deliver water on the glass

Darran

[Dry Clean]

Darran the majority of guys who have been at this a while rinse with the brush on the glass which means jet type doesn't matter,
that said even in my early days when I was still rinsing off the glass I never found pencil jets to be slow, a two second zig zag down the glass was all that was needed, I can understand newbies getting on as if they have to spray paint the glass but this should be nothing more than nonsense to experienced guys.

[dazmond]

Darran the majority of guys who have been at this a while rinse with the brush on the glass which means jet type doesn't matter,
that said even in my early days when I was still rinsing off the glass I never found pencil jets to be slow, a two second zig zag down the glass was all that was needed, I can understand newbies getting on as if they have to spray paint the glass but this should be nothing more than nonsense to experienced guys.

i hardly ever rinse on the glass on ground floor windows......or top windows either.....

[dazmond]

ive tried fan jets and their ok...i prefer them for f/s/g/cleans....the problem for me regards accuracy when rinsing...quite a few windows on my round have dodgy top rubber seals and i keep water away from them.....fan jets makes this harder to achieve....

never tried the rinse bars but i can envisage the same problem as fan jets........

rinsing on the glass can also cause problems(brush marks,bits of dirt left on the glass etc)so i virtually always rinse off whether its upper or lower windows.....

[paul alan]

Keep an open mind regarding spray bars, you may be surprised how quick you can get through your work compared to using jet nozzles in your brush.  I've increased my efficiency by at least thirty percent on most types of property except new builds as the windows are so small it barely makes much difference.

After using the spray bar for a while I have found I did get some spotting, not just from the top frame but also in the middle of the glass. There must be a certain way to use them, how exactly do you perform you rinsing?
Thanks

[Smudger]

Daz- please explain how fans are less accurate ?

Dry clean
Not to cause an argument how do you know the majority of “experienced” cleaners clean with the brush on the glass ?

It appears to me that you can pick 10 different guys off this forum and get 10 different answers on what’s correct/best - so I offer my opinions on experience, sometimes people like it, sometimes not - I do hate general sweeping statements where a poster imply’s that there way is best and it’s the only way to do it and anyone who doesn’t is somehow stupid  the industry has so many variables it comes down to trial and error and what suits your way of working/equipment you have/how you learnt to wfp etc...

Darran

[nathankaye]

I'm personally glad that the industry in wfp has developed to where it is today. Could you imagine if the industry stayed stagnant with the first lot of poles etc that came out and used the argument that, if it isn't broken don't fix it, attitude.
Granted in my opinion there are some gimmicks and variations that I don't see adding much difference. Such as vision for instance, but that said, I have never tried it so I can't really give an opinion about it.

Personally for me, i like an heavy brush and plenty of water cascading down the window to help with the clean and a faster rinse. I also know my brush and know that on my technique I can rinse on the glass with no problems and any dodgy seal or top frame, I can adjust the technique accordingly. Which is knowledge and confidence in my cleaning ability and not as some view it, as the reliance on hot water or rinsing the window to death.

Wouldn't life be boring if everything was the same and no additional choices or personal preferences were allowed.
Any car can get you from A to B.
Any style of clothing will cover your body and be suitable for its intent n purpose.
Same can be said for hot beverages, cold beverages, alcohol, food, shelter etc etc the list goes on. Can you imagine only having the one of each ofthe things mentioned, because at the end of the day, it does the job and that's all that matters.  Yet ones want to insist that the same logic here doesn't apply in our line of work. In my opinion this line of thinking is limiting.

[Dry Clean]

I'm personally glad that the industry in wfp has developed to where it is today. Could you imagine if the industry stayed stagnant with the first lot of poles etc that came out and used the argument that, if it isn't broken don't fix it, attitude.
Granted in my opinion there are some gimmicks and variations that I don't see adding much difference. Such as vision for instance, but that said, I have never tried it so I can't really give an opinion about it.

Personally for me, i like an heavy brush and plenty of water cascading down the window to help with the clean and a faster rinse. I also know my brush and know that on my technique I can rinse on the glass with no problems and any dodgy seal or top frame, I can adjust the technique accordingly. Which is knowledge and confidence in my cleaning ability and not as some view it, as the reliance on hot water or rinsing the window to death.

Wouldn't life be boring if everything was the same and no additional choices or personal preferences were allowed.
Any car can get you from A to B.
Any style of clothing will cover your body and be suitable for its intent n purpose.
Same can be said for hot beverages, cold beverages, alcohol, food, shelter etc etc the list goes on. Can you imagine only having the one of each ofthe things mentioned, because at the end of the day, it does the job and that's all that matters.  Yet ones want to insist that the same logic here doesn't apply in our line of work. In my opinion this line of thinking is limiting.

The problem with your broken logic is the industry has been fixing what IS broken, its why we can now work with lightweight poles, brushes and so on.
Iv yet to hear one of you faffers come on here and say... guys I'm having a problem with X do you know if there are any solutions
to my problem. jumping on the latest gadget and then looking for a reason to use it seems to be the main cause for most of the faff on here, you're deluded if you think that's how we make things better.

[Dry Clean]

Daz- please explain how fans are less accurate ?

Dry clean
Not to cause an argument how do you know the majority of “experienced” cleaners clean with the brush on the glass ?

It appears to me that you can pick 10 different guys off this forum and get 10 different answers on what’s correct/best - so I offer my opinions on experience, sometimes people like it, sometimes not - I do hate general sweeping statements where a poster imply’s that there way is best and it’s the only way to do it and anyone who doesn’t is somehow stupid  the industry has so many variables it comes down to trial and error and what suits your way of working/equipment you have/how you learnt to wfp etc...

Darran

Instead of nitpicking why not ask yourself  if others can rinse without lifting the brush off the glass then whats stopping me,
I mean if you can do the same job without having to worry about jets or hold the brush off the glass then surely it has to be the correct/best way.

[nathankaye]

I'm personally glad that the industry in wfp has developed to where it is today. Could you imagine if the industry stayed stagnant with the first lot of poles etc that came out and used the argument that, if it isn't broken don't fix it, attitude.
Granted in my opinion there are some gimmicks and variations that I don't see adding much difference. Such as vision for instance, but that said, I have never tried it so I can't really give an opinion about it.

Personally for me, i like an heavy brush and plenty of water cascading down the window to help with the clean and a faster rinse. I also know my brush and know that on my technique I can rinse on the glass with no problems and any dodgy seal or top frame, I can adjust the technique accordingly. Which is knowledge and confidence in my cleaning ability and not as some view it, as the reliance on hot water or rinsing the window to death.

Wouldn't life be boring if everything was the same and no additional choices or personal preferences were allowed.
Any car can get you from A to B.
Any style of clothing will cover your body and be suitable for its intent n purpose.
Same can be said for hot beverages, cold beverages, alcohol, food, shelter etc etc the list goes on. Can you imagine only having the one of each ofthe things mentioned, because at the end of the day, it does the job and that's all that matters.  Yet ones want to insist that the same logic here doesn't apply in our line of work. In my opinion this line of thinking is limiting.

The problem with your broken logic is the industry has been fixing what IS broken, its why we can now work with lightweight poles, brushes and so on.
Iv yet to hear one of you faffers come on here and say... guys I'm having a problem with X do you know if there are any solutions
to my problem. jumping on the latest gadget and then looking for a reason to use it seems to be the main cause for most of the faff on here, you're deluded if you think that's how we make things better.

I don't see how it is broken logic. The thing is, heavy or light poles makes no difference in your argument. So it's an heavy pole, but you know, it got the job done!
But if you are saying that the development of lighter poles and poles which are telescopic etc make the job easier and quicker then isn't that you agreeing with the vast majority of what we are saying. That these improvements are a slight variation o what already works but with the advantage of making it easier etc.

[Smudger]

Nitpicking ? - I asked a perfectly reasonable question “how do you know the majority clean with the brush on the glass ?”

Darran

[Shrek]

I feel like Iv not cleaned properly if I clean with the brush on - however Iv never really stuck to that method for more than a week and the went back to rinsing off , everything with red Gardiners  fan jets

[jonny thompson]

Majority rinse off the glass, fact end of

[dazmond]

Daz- please explain how fans are less accurate ?

Dry clean
Not to cause an argument how do you know the majority of “experienced” cleaners clean with the brush on the glass ?

It appears to me that you can pick 10 different guys off this forum and get 10 different answers on what’s correct/best - so I offer my opinions on experience, sometimes people like it, sometimes not - I do hate general sweeping statements where a poster imply’s that there way is best and it’s the only way to do it and anyone who doesn’t is somehow stupid  the industry has so many variables it comes down to trial and error and what suits your way of working/equipment you have/how you learnt to wfp etc...

Darran

i just found fan jets difficult compared to pencil jets when it came to rinsing just under the top seal....its easier to splash water where you dont want it.......

[dazmond]

rinsing on the glass is fine if the windows are hydrophilic and their not too dirty(4 weekly cleans)....however a lot of windows are hydrophobic and its better to rinse off the glass IMO......I use BOTH methods.....

[paul alan]

Majority rinse off the glass, fact end of

I rinse on...and off...with fans...and pencils...and even have a couple of jobs where the rinse bar comes into its own.

I have days where rinsing on is fine, other days where the glass is full of "bits" where you have to rinse off.


There must as many different opinions as there are window cleaners. They're probably all right to some extent.

[Slacky]

I use 10mm O/Diameter flexible hose with a 8mm internal diameter

Where do you source this hose from please ?

And also the appropriate plastic fittings, whichever ones you use please?

TIA.