[Jonny 87]

This topic again......this time of year.   

Last winter I nearly went for a diesel hot water system, but I convinced myself an immersion would work just as fine and get me through things.

Now as we are about to head into the winter again I’ve decided to finally go for it. Much similar to others on here I want a work day as easy as possible. I work 5 days a week, and can justify the cost for the convenience and speed/quality increase. I know a few say there is no difference in quality or speed with hot water, but I defintiely feel there is. When I have my immersion on so the water is pretty hot, I get through an extra job or so in the day, and quality defintiely increases a little, (less missed marks etc) and the day is just all round more enjoyable.  (Just my findings) plus I’m in Scotland where it’s not the nicest climate during winter.

Anyway.............

A few quick questions for the guys who have the grippatank heaters........ how do you find the heat adjuster in practical use? I know Oliver has told me it’s fully adjustable, but what does that mean?
I was going to get the 5kw version, but I think I’m going for the 9kw now. I work with a high flow rate, and I feel the 5kw might be lacking for me. I’ve been told if I use a flow rate of 25 on my controller,  I would expect 50-60 degrees out the heater all year round. The problem is that I use about 60 on my controller, so that leads me to think the 5kw might struggle. Especially in winter when it’s very cold outside.

So my option now is to get the 9kw and then turn the temperature down during winter.

Also do any of you know if it’s possible to run one pump on cold and one on hot? Just trying to look at all the options.

Thanks guys. 👍

[dazmond]

Get the 9kw the 5kw will not be hot enough...

Just run it on full temperature setting all year round.....

In winter when it's cold the temperature at brush head will be only 20-30c with 100m of hose out on freezing ground even on full temperature.....

In summer on a hot day you'll be getting55c-60c at brush head,great for cleaning....

I use around £4 a day in diesel....

[Jonny 87]

Thanks for the stats Daz.

That was my worry.  It’s only a few hundred pound more for the 9kw,  plus I’ll get it plumbed into my current two man system. The 5kw was Mayb just going to be too small.

Looking at the numbers your getting heat wise, I’ll be fine with the 9kw in winter.

£4 in diesel isn’t much more than I’m paying in electric for my immersion, so that’s fine.

Thanks. 

[brianbarber]

I suggest you ask Oliver regarding safe operating.temperatures.

There are so many variables that you need to be aware of if you want to avoid buying new glass for your customers.

Mr B

[Spruce]

I suggest you ask Oliver regarding safe operating.temperatures.

There are so many variables that you need to be aware of if you want to avoid buying new glass for your customers.

Mr B

Interesting video clip Mr B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeqpH53Mk1k

First of all, the hot water didn't cause the glass to break. It also seem to contradict the Mpemba effect where hot water appears to freeze quicker than cold water.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

You will love it.

I have two pumps running..   Mine can't run one hot and one cold.  They need to be the same. The heater is controlled by one controller to turn the heater on and off.    The second pump and controller draws off the boiler whether its on or off.   So if the Heater is on then both pumps run on hot.   

I keep the second pump running back to the tank at a low flow just to prevent the burner shutting down when your main pump is DE.    Don't worry as it takes a while anyway to shut down if you don't have another pump on constant flow back to tank.   But if you leave your main controlled on DE  for more than 5 mins without a second pump running the burner will go into shut down mode. 

It's advised not to keep it going into shutdown mode and startup mode regularly. 

Use the return to tank method to keep burner on between jobs if its going to be less then 20 mins between the jobs to help protect the burner. 

[brianbarber]

I suggest you ask Oliver regarding safe operating.temperatures.

There are so many variables that you need to be aware of if you want to avoid buying new glass for your customers.

Interesting video clip Mr B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeqpH53Mk1k

First of all, the hot water didn't cause the glass to break. It also seem to contradict the Mpemba effect where hot water appears to freeze quicker than cold water.


I Accept no breakages on this you tube video
But where the sealed units are in frames in a real world scenario, you can get expansion and if the sealed units are packet too tightly the glass will break.
Also possible if there's hidden damage on edges that are obscured once unit fitted in frame.
 This is just from some experience earlier this year.
99.9 % you can get away with murder temperature wise but there's always one that will catch you out, hence why I go on the cautious side.
Oliver will be along in a minute to give the definitive on this...

Mr B

[dazmond]

keep the heater running all day at full blast summer or winter.this is the best way to run these heaters.i dont have a second pump so return to tank when driving between jobs or having a brew....sometimes ill turn the heater off at lunchtime and fire it back up 10 mins before i start back(i also turn it on first thing in the morning before i leave for work)....

the heater has a short  "stand by" feature and goes into half heat mode so wont shut down when you turn your tap off at the pole straight away but it will if your dont turn your pole tap back on within 3 mins or plug it into your return valves......i find 3 mins long enough to get back to the van and plug into return valves or drag my hose to the next job and start cleaning again...

make sure you get the b to b smart charger fitted too...its brilliant for charging the batteries up on the go when driving about....also buy a numax connect and forget 20amp charger for connecting up in the evening to keep the batteries in tip top condition....

dont worry about running the heater on full blast in the winter months as lots of heat is lost from the hose on a cold day so the water at the brush end is not too hot anyway...

i love my heater....yes its expensive(and a little indulgent!) ....but its fantastic!hot water on tap all year round with frost protection,NO messing about with gas bottles....just fill up at your local garage as you would normally.....

[The Jester of Wibbly]

I don't bother with all this temp reading twaddle.

Just use your own sense of touch.   If it's pipping hot and bearable to touch it will be fine in the summer.   

Winter I make sure it's nice and warm as if your washing your hands in the sink.  No issues at all.

With the hose out in the winter the temp at brush head drops anyway so I tend to always have mine set on full heat or just a tad under.

If cleaning old or single glazed glass I turn off the burner and use cold or luke warm.

[dazmond]

jonny you live in scotland.....is there a fitting centre up there or are you coming all the way down to cambridgeshire?

[dazmond]

i find on  a warm day in summer its unbearable to keep my hand in front of the jets for longer than a few seconds!but its excellent for cleaning!theres always lots more stuff on the windows(sticky pollen,bird muck etc) and the very hot water helps....

[Spruce]

I suggest you ask Oliver regarding safe operating.temperatures.

There are so many variables that you need to be aware of if you want to avoid buying new glass for your customers.

Interesting video clip Mr B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeqpH53Mk1k

First of all, the hot water didn't cause the glass to break. It also seem to contradict the Mpemba effect where hot water appears to freeze quicker than cold water.


I Accept no breakages on this you tube video
But where the sealed units are in frames in a real world scenario, you can get expansion and if the sealed units are packet too tightly the glass will break.
Also possible if there's hidden damage on edges that are obscured once unit fitted in frame.
 This is just from some experience earlier this year.
99.9 % you can get away with murder temperature wise but there's always one that will catch you out, hence why I go on the cautious side.
Oliver will be along in a minute to give the definitive on this...

Mr B

It was interesting how hot water didn't do any damage to the glass. I honestly would have thought that the glass would break.

However, I agree that the frame could change things. We had a window pop in the Atrium of our local high school this summer. They put it down to expansion caused by the above normal hot weather this year.  But I also wonder if the glass was too tight in the frames (ali frames)when the school was built. But the Linear Temperature Expansion Coefficient of glass isn't that high.

I would think that a UPVC frame would not be that rigid. Of course we can't rule our a crack developing from glass damage or a manufacturing floor/fault.  In the old days of steel window frames we regularily had cracks in the glass caused by expansion and contraction exacerbated but hardened putty that had no 'flex'.

[NWH]

If your rural you don’t want to run it flat out hot you’ll at best creak the glass at worst crack it,and as for running it at 25-30 on the flo controller if that’s the case you are working with far to low a flo rate imo.
I have a 5kw heater Daz and it puts out 45-55 degrees running water on the flo controller at 75-80 it’s way hot enough in most cases to hot to hold your hand under it,if it’s so hot you wouldn’t want to bath in it without adding cold it’s more than hot enough to clean windows with,I really don’t know what the fuss is about the cost of these units,if you have anywhere near the kind of work your considering 1 you’ll pay for it in weeks not months they are well worth the money and are essential for the winter months for keeping you working and more importantly keeping your van frost free.

[NWH]

If I recirculated back to tank on a flow of 15-20 I’ll get 70 degrees prior to cleaning the next job,if I’m off to a PVC job next I’ll do this as it’s never effected by high temperatures PVC,if I was going to be cleaning an old house with delicate glass I’d turn it down to minimum.

[dazmond]

If your rural you don’t want to run it flat out hot you’ll at best creak the glass at worst crack it,and as for running it at 25-30 on the flo controller if that’s the case you are working with far to low a flo rate imo.
I have a 5kw heater Daz and it puts out 45-55 degrees running water on the flo controller at 75-80 it’s way hot enough in most cases to hot to hold your hand under it,if it’s so hot you wouldn’t want to bath in it without adding cold it’s more than hot enough to clean windows with,I really don’t know what the fuss is about the cost of these units,if you have anywhere near the kind of work your considering 1 you’ll pay for it in weeks not months they are well worth the money and are essential for the winter months for keeping you working and more importantly keeping your van frost free.

the only reason your 5kw heater is getting to those sorts of temperatures is because you ve done something to it(which will void the warranty on a new one).i remember when you used to moan about it not getting hot enough....this is the reason why PURE FREEDOM have stopped selling the 5 kw heaters......complaints of window cleaners not happy with them and only getting luke warm water...

mines the WEBASTO THERMO PRO 90 12V MARINE

[dazmond]

If your rural you don’t want to run it flat out hot you’ll at best creak the glass at worst crack it,and as for running it at 25-30 on the flo controller if that’s the case you are working with far to low a flo rate imo.
I have a 5kw heater Daz and it puts out 45-55 degrees running water on the flo controller at 75-80 it’s way hot enough in most cases to hot to hold your hand under it,if it’s so hot you wouldn’t want to bath in it without adding cold it’s more than hot enough to clean windows with,I really don’t know what the fuss is about the cost of these units,if you have anywhere near the kind of work your considering 1 you’ll pay for it in weeks not months they are well worth the money and are essential for the winter months for keeping you working and more importantly keeping your van frost free.

also ALL SYSTEMS ARE DIFFERENT!i run my controller on 35-40 and its gushing out of the jets at these settings!

[The Jester of Wibbly]

It's like watching a rerun of an old Christmas Special of Only Fools & Horses 

[Slacky]

Those of you with a Grippa system, how often do you charge it over night?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Those of you with a Grippa system, how often do you charge it over night?

Every night before a days work for me.

Although I think a charge could last 2 days

[dazmond]

Those of you with a Grippa system, how often do you charge it over night?

every night.........