[nathankaye]

(broad sweeping statement alarm 😂)
Al lot of  new and I suppose existing wfp'ers usethe excuse of health n safety when explaining to new customers as to why they have switched onto wfp and it's the first line of defence when argued alongside traditional cleaners. (primarily residential work).
I've seen other threads on facebook groups that ridicule and attack ones for using ladders.  I just wonder if sometimes as a trade we jump on the health n safety bandwagon as well?

For instance, I believe this is mad.
Sat having a coffee and came back to the van to witness a tree being cut down by a dude on a ladder which hasn't been tied off and using a chainsaw!
Another worker stopping traffic as a large and heavy branch is cut and left to fall onto the road or wherever it chose to land. 
However I am convinced that health n safety would get involved in this case but window cleaning on domestic?   Open for debate

[John Mart]

He'll be harnessed.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

It's all down to the individual which method is best for them.  Trad is cheap and easy to set up where wfp is more expensive.  The price you pay is for a better safer method for doing the same job.  Wfp was never introduced as a better method for quality and better results for standard houses.

If a method for doing the same job massively reduces the risk of injury or even death, then there is no argument.

[alank]

I don't explain my choice of tools to the customer they want clean windows that's what I give them the choice of method and tools is mine and I choose wfp end of

[M & C Window Cleaning]

I don't explain my choice of tools to the customer they want clean windows that's what I give them the choice of method and tools is mine and I choose wfp end of

I used to when it was all relatively new and they wondered what it was all about. Some really didn't like it as it was so different. However, very few expect anything different now. Most make sure that I use wfp before I start

[mufcglen]

for me personally i find wfp does a better job done properly and gives a deeper clean so i always start with that line, ocasionally i'll throw in the safety aspect to certain customers with hard to reach windows but wfp has the added bonus of not having to go on tiled roofs etc too so no chance of broken tiles, picked a few jobs up from that too in past!!
each to theyre own but for me i'd rather be safer on the ground.

[Arnold Palmer]

As soon as someone invents a way he can do as good (or better) a job from the ground, quicker and more safely, he'll do it that way. Until then, this is the safest practicable way.

[Smudger]

Wfp is not really an excuse it is reality fact a safer way to clean

Personally I always promoted the quality o the customer first over h&s because  that’s what they are interested in

Unfortunately h&s can easily get out of control if the job has been risked accessed then use a ladder it may not be practical for a cherry picker here and may even have been more risky

There are still plenty of people around who poo poo h&s usually because they don’t want to pay for the extra equipment required - landlords are the worst, wanting roof cleans done but expect you to walk on the steep pitch roof with no safety equipment etc..

Just remember lose a limb or your life it cannot be replaced

Darran

[John Mart]

Wfp is not really an excuse it is reality fact a safer way to clean

Personally I always promoted the quality o the customer first over h&s because  that’s what they are interested in

Unfortunately h&s can easily get out of control if the job has been risked accessed then use a ladder it may not be practical for a cherry picker here and may even have been more risky

There are still plenty of people around who poo poo h&s usually because they don’t want to pay for the extra equipment required - landlords are the worst, wanting roof cleans done but expect you to walk on the steep pitch roof with no safety equipment etc..

Just remember lose a limb or your life it cannot be replaced

Darran

I'm quite sure for a lot it's that they don't like the speed.

[Go]

Using a ladder, day in, day out is a arguably a breach of h s at work act. Or working at heights. If using an alternative is reasonably practicable. Innit
Wfp is cheaper than a funeral.

[Smudger]

Using a ladder, day in, day out is a arguably a breach of h s at work act. Or working at heights. If using an alternative is reasonably practicable. Innit
Wfp is cheaper than a funeral.

This is the problem, so much lawyer speak that it’s never straight forward as things could be, window cleaning comes under short duration and therefore acceptable - a trad cleaner can point out that going to ionic and spending £10k on a wfp system is not a real alternative- also maybe the trad cleaner cannot drive

Darran

[AuRavelling79]

Using a ladder, day in, day out is a arguably a breach of h s at work act. Or working at heights. If using an alternative is reasonably practicable. Innit
Wfp is cheaper than a funeral.

This is the problem, so much lawyer speak that it’s never straight forward as things could be, window cleaning comes under short duration and therefore acceptable - a trad cleaner can point out that going to ionic and spending £10k on a wfp system is not a real alternative- also maybe the trad cleaner cannot drive

Darran

Then he/she can trad and use a backpack and a cheap pole for the upstairs for a few hundred quid.

[alank]

In the eyes of health and safety if your employees can't do their job safely then they can't do the job irrespective of equipment cost.

[nathankaye]

Using a ladder, day in, day out is a arguably a breach of h s at work act. Or working at heights. If using an alternative is reasonably practicable. Innit
Wfp is cheaper than a funeral.

This is the problem, so much lawyer speak that it’s never straight forward as things could be, window cleaning comes under short duration and therefore acceptable - a trad cleaner can point out that going to ionic and spending £10k on a wfp system is not a real alternative- also maybe the trad cleaner cannot drive

Darran

An interesting side point from an health aspect and I don't know if it was just my nurse or if anybody else has had the same experience.
After I had a health scare I booked in for my first Mot at the doctors and one of the fitness questions was in relation to exercises. I can't remember the scale of it, but along the lines of:
"apart from walking when your working and going to the shops etc, do you do much extra walking."
From previous questions she knew I was a window cleaner and I do a lot of walking with the nature of the job. But apart from school runs etc I don't do a lot of extra walking apart from the odd wknd etc.  But all of that wasn't allowed, so on her paper I do no form of exercise at all.......... Absolutely ridiculous

[Smudger]

Using a ladder, day in, day out is a arguably a breach of h s at work act. Or working at heights. If using an alternative is reasonably practicable. Innit
Wfp is cheaper than a funeral.

This is the problem, so much lawyer speak that it’s never straight forward as things could be, window cleaning comes under short duration and therefore acceptable - a trad cleaner can point out that going to ionic and spending £10k on a wfp system is not a real alternative- also maybe the trad cleaner cannot drive

Darran

Then he/she can trad and use a backpack and a cheap pole for the upstairs for a few hundred quid.

Maybe - if that’s known about however humping barrels and backpacks about bring there own h&s issues and again if you can’t drive then wfp is not an alternative

You can be tied up in knots on whatever route you take

Darran

[Slacky]

He is trying to clean a window in the picture?

[dazmond]

Using a ladder, day in, day out is a arguably a breach of h s at work act. Or working at heights. If using an alternative is reasonably practicable. Innit
Wfp is cheaper than a funeral.

This is the problem, so much lawyer speak that it’s never straight forward as things could be, window cleaning comes under short duration and therefore acceptable - a trad cleaner can point out that going to ionic and spending £10k on a wfp system is not a real alternative- also maybe the trad cleaner cannot drive

Darran

An interesting side point from an health aspect and I don't know if it was just my nurse or if anybody else has had the same experience.
After I had a health scare I booked in for my first Mot at the doctors and one of the fitness questions was in relation to exercises. I can't remember the scale of it, but along the lines of:
"apart from walking when your working and going to the shops etc, do you do much extra walking."
From previous questions she knew I was a window cleaner and I do a lot of walking with the nature of the job. But apart from school runs etc I don't do a lot of extra walking apart from the odd wknd etc.  But all of that wasn't allowed, so on her paper I do no form of exercise at all.......... Absolutely ridiculous

walking is minimal in this job with wfp these days....i used to do a lot more walking up and down ladders.

now postmen walk a lot!

[Arnold Palmer]

It's not as bad as it was....

A few years back someone (prolific on this site at the time) was charging people for a window cleaning h&s training course. I believe there was some kind of con so he was getting like £1500 per person off the government too.

According to some of the mugs folk who went on it he said that:

1. While cleaning windows you should have a cordoned off saftey zone with a distance from the operator at least the full height of the pole. No idea how he imagined that was in any way "reasonably practicable" on a residential round.

2. There is NO safe, reasonably practicable way of cleaning a window above a flat roof. People paid him money for that golden nugget. 

I don't clean windows above flat roofs because it's easier and more cost effective to avoid carrying ladders and clambering up them (or hiring a cherry picker, erecting a scaffold tower, bungee jumping from a hot air balloon, whatever) for 0.001% of the windows out there. That's my decision. However, if I were charging people money to show them the safest way to clean a window, I'd show them the safest way to clean a window.

Not seen him on here in a while and his h&s "training" business has been dissolved, meanwhile the window cleaning industry carries on without 30ft force fields and everything is fine.

[dazmond]

ladders are still essential for some work.....for instance i had a large domestic job to clean the other day and texted the night before to leave the side gate unlocked...she forgot(only the second time shes forgot in years)it took me an extra 5 mins to get my ladders off and get over the gate.this job is 6 weekly and i didnt fancy just cleaning the fronts(its an £80 job).i still made £80 for an hours work.......

some other large domestics have large flat roof kitchen extensions,some of them with glass roofs that i clean....these jobs would be impossible to clean without ladders....

[jonboywalton75]

If you have top earning stuff that you might need ladders for is suppose I see your point Daz, but personally I am 99.9% ladderless now and loving it.
I've almost forgotten I've got a roof rack