[G Griffin]

Marc, did you touch the frames and sills? Can you not remember?
Chris, what were you having for lunch that day?
Can you sue someone for liable and deformation? 
Will we now have a 'slide to 8k' thread?
Does anyone want to buy a posh lawnmower?

[Marc Stock]

Like i said in my prev post. If your water quality is perfect you dont need to 'rinse'

Anyway thanks for your continued dialogue. In your opinion i am a crap window cleaner. Yes thanks for that. You are entitled to your opinion i suppose and for everyone to see yeah, get the popcorn out.. of course it must be true..

I suppose you will be filming me next yeah? With a dairy of my movements? Checking up on me?

All i posted was a little antidote; one we all relate to: yes not everyone agrees; and thats the fun of it; but you have just made this very very personal.

[G Griffin]

I suppose you will be filming me next yeah? With a dairy of my movements?

No point crying over spilt milk, Marc.
Just keep targeting the cream and you will rise to the top.

[G Griffin]

All i posted was a little antidote; one we all relate to: yes not everyone agrees; and thats the fun of it; but you have just made this very very personal.

An antidote to clean windows, frames and sills?

[nathankaye]

I'm up for seeing a video of it 😂😂  beats my vids I'm sure 

To take some flack away, haha as I have a loyal band of critique followers 😂
I also do not clean the frames on every visit and my water has been 009 for several months now and I don't rinse off the glass. My work is four weekly and doesn't require the frames to be cleaned on every visit.    I also use Hot water, a massive brush as some have come to call it with cascading hot water and so the first pass is the clean and the second/third pass is the rinse.
So I disagree however with Marc's opinions on the all important 000 magical water.  At the same time however, I charge what I feel the job is worth and the customer agrees said price if they want it or not. That price is for clean windows and a satisfactory clean to them, that's all. They are not paying a separate price for windows being cleaned with an added charge for frames or sills or even their doors being wiped down.  So No, I'm not robbing or treating the customer unfairly if upon being at their property for a maintenance clean and the frames etc do not require such cleaning.

[John Mart]

So who’s the chump? The one that takes much longer and charges less or the one that’s splash and dash yet manages to get the customer to pay more?

[Stoots]

Also sounds like Chris is a bit jealous and annoyed. I mean I would be too, you see a guy doing less work than you and charging more for it. It's going to give anyone a bit of green eyed monster, it's only natural. But that's life unfortunately, either moan about it or do something about it.

[Richard Groves]

Marc. I think I've prompted Chris in to posting what he did because he agreed with my  ethics and reading between the lines is nothing more than that. It was his way of illustrating the point being made. Slagging you off and considering you a threat ? .... get a grip . I think he was as diplomatic in the way he put things as he could be.
Public forum lol. My gf thinks I'm sad for even reading posts on here 
Like they say, if you can't take it, don't put it out there.

[dazmond]

on the subject of rinsing. why wouldnt you rinse?

i scrub the glass and frames then rinse.......i thought all window cleaners did this?if you dont rinse then your risking  leaving brush marks and bits of dirt left on the windows after they ve dried.....i thought that was obvious.....

[Walter Mitty]

Whatever Chris.

You are borderline. And well under the belt.

By the looks of things im not the only one on the receiving end of your so called expert critique either.

Oh Gawd.  I better not let him anywhere near my writing

[dazmond]

So who’s the chump? The one that takes much longer and charges less or the one that’s splash and dash yet manages to get the customer to pay more?

theres working fast and theres taking the p**s.......a fine line......if your not cleaning frames/sills OR rinsing either you wont be doing a good job thats for sure.....

[AuRavelling79]

I refer the defendant to his description of his work: 'thoroughly adequate'.
What does that mean? Adequate? 

It's a water course built by dyslexic Romans.

[Walter Mitty]

Personally, I do prefer to rinse off the glass, except on very high work where I spare my body by leaving the leading edge of the brush on the glass.  Although most jobs will be fine with rinsing on the glass, I've found that some aren't because they can spot high up on the pane - even with a high flow rate.  So I rinse with brush off glass just in case.  I wouldn't knock anyone's work style, just sharing some observations from my own work.

I think it's bad form to knock someone's window cleaning work on a public forum when an email would do (no PMs on here).  It seems the customers are fine, anyway.

[chris turner]

Personally I rinse off the glass and I rinse thoroughly, especially during the hot spell we had as most windows had baked on dust.
I don't agree with rinsing on the glass as I would say a large number of windows are not suitable for it.
That being said, if you are going to rinse on the glass, there is a certain way to do it. Clean the glass as normal, then take the brush to the top of the glass and in a side to side movement create a "cascade" effect whilst sweeping the brush down.
It's still rinsing, just a different method of doing so whilst marginally quicker then off the glass.
What I saw was NO rinsing on or off the glass, on a house on a busy main road.

I couldn't care less what others earn, me and the missus already earn 80k between us and live quite comfortably thanks.
I don't need any more customers or money, I think I made that clear. Why do I need to be jealous?

This is about the reputation of the window cleaning industry as a whole.
Too often I pick up new customers who have had bad experiences with wfp or who have been ripped off for an "adequate" service. 
This does wind me up. If someone is paying you for a service, then do the job properly, especially if they are paying top dollar for it.

Just put yourself in the customers shoes.
Would you pay £30 or £40 to have the windows cleaned on your 3 bed semi, to a "wholly adequate" standard?

[John Mart]

I think it's bad form to knock someone's window cleaning work on a public forum when an email would do (no PMs on here).  It seems the customers are fine, anyway.

It's a bit off isn't it. 

[John Mart]

Personally I rinse off the glass and I rinse thoroughly, especially during the hot spell we had as most windows had baked on dust.
I don't agree with rinsing on the glass as I would say a large number of windows are not suitable for it.
That being said, if you are going to rinse on the glass, there is a certain way to do it. Clean the glass as normal, then take the brush to the top of the glass and in a side to side movement create a "cascade" effect whilst sweeping the brush down.
It's still rinsing, just a different method of doing so whilst marginally quicker then off the glass.
What I saw was NO rinsing on or off the glass, on a house on a busy main road.

I couldn't care less what others earn, me and the missus already earn 80k between us and live quite comfortably thanks.
I don't need any more customers or money, I think I made that clear. Why do I need to be jealous?

This is about the reputation of the window cleaning industry as a whole.
Too often I pick up new customers who have had bad experiences with wfp or who have been ripped off for an "adequate" service. 
This does wind me up. If someone is paying you for a service, then do the job properly, especially if they are paying top dollar for it.

Just put yourself in the customers shoes.
Would you pay £30 or £40 to have the windows cleaned on your 3 bed semi, to a "wholly adequate" standard?

Mindfulness as a solution?

[AuRavelling79]

Gentlemen.

It would appear that feathers are ruffled and handbags have smeary makeup on them.

Chris Turner - had you made that post about me I would believe that you had criticised my wfp work; this is of course tantamount to you telling me I'm a bad driver; which is on a par with telling me I'm useless in bed.

I would further inform you that I am an appalling driver in the area of bumps and scrapes usually on customers fences, my own gates and infamously the post box I reversed into. My wife will tell you I am useless in bed but I disagree, I can lie for 8 hours snoring loudly.

Marc - I am a bit anal about my work but have learned to be a bit less anal from learning from others on this forum. I usually do the top frame but not always if it's 4 weekly and there is a vent.

But if I haven't done the top frame with a vent for 8 weeks or 12 weeks I will give it its own little scrub along with next few top frames of top windows in easy reach before going round the glass afterwards. Even then I know that once I have left and driven down the road - avoiding post boxes of course, a little dribble will seep out of no. 49's top vent and leave a line of "milk" stains.

Sills will get a single pass unless there is special need and I have also learned to not rinse - except I might tilt the brush upwards on the final scrub so the top edge is NOT in contact and water flows down as I go.

As far as ppm goes I'm far worse than you. I used to be anal about zero ppm and not letting my brush touch brickwork and now I happily clean at up to 10ppm - I haven't quite got the nerve to ditch resin altogether because my membrane produces at about 14ppm and I haven't "quite" got the nerve to ditch it completely.

So ... we all have different ways of working - Chris sleeps better (he's very good in bed obviously) when he takes a bit of extra time doing what he does. You're a very good driver when you drive your ppm down to zero and getting a businesslike profit from your work.

The rest of us on this forum are enjoying eating our popcorn and watching this thread - but learning loads - and from the responses the majority of us agree that customers should agree to our terms beforehand - even if they sack us afterwards for being crap.

By getting that commitment and charging more for the first clean we can cover for the fact that a few will lie to get the one off clean with the full intention of stopping us within a clean or two afterwards.

[nathankaye]

Rinsing on glass
(oh no, it's one of nath videos    )

https://youtu.be/v0CeiiO5qoM

[chris turner]

Gentlemen.

It would appear that feathers are ruffled and handbags have smeary makeup on them.

Chris Turner - had you made that post about me I would believe that you had criticised my wfp work; this is of course tantamount to you telling me I'm a bad driver; which is on a par with telling me I'm useless in bed.

I would further inform you that I am an appalling driver in the area of bumps and scrapes usually on customers fences, my own gates and infamously the post box I reversed into. My wife will tell you I am useless in bed but I disagree, I can lie for 8 hours snoring loudly.

Marc - I am a bit anal about my work but have learned to be a bit less anal from learning from others on this forum. I usually do the top frame but not always if it's 4 weekly and there is a vent.

But if I haven't done the top frame with a vent for 8 weeks or 12 weeks I will give it its own little scrub along with next few top frames of top windows in easy reach before going round the glass afterwards. Even then I know that once I have left and driven down the road - avoiding post boxes of course, a little dribble will seep out of no. 49's top vent and leave a line of "milk" stains.

Sills will get a single pass unless there is special need and I have also learned to not rinse - except I might tilt the brush upwards on the final scrub so the top edge is NOT in contact and water flows down as I go.

As far as ppm goes I'm far worse than you. I used to be anal about zero ppm and not letting my brush touch brickwork and now I happily clean at up to 10ppm - I haven't quite got the nerve to ditch resin altogether because my membrane produces at about 14ppm and I haven't "quite" got the nerve to ditch it completely.

So ... we all have different ways of working - Chris sleeps better (he's very good in bed obviously) when he takes a bit of extra time doing what he does. You're a very good driver when you drive your ppm down to zero and getting a businesslike profit from your work.

The rest of us on this forum are enjoying eating our popcorn and watching this thread - but learning loads - and from the responses the majority of us agree that customers should agree to our terms beforehand - even if they sack us afterwards for being crap.

By getting that commitment and charging more for the first clean we can cover for the fact that a few will lie to get the one off clean with the full intention of stopping us within a clean or two afterwards.

Ok. So for a £50 house you would agree it's fair to charge £160 odd for the first clean?

Marc started this thread out of disrespect for a customer, brazenly posting his absurd pricing, whilst I had first hand experience of why, to the contrary,  that the customer in some situations is right to want to try before they buy. Why should they pay a ridiculous price for wanting to do so?

Perhaps I shouldn't of named names, but it was just so flipping ironic that Marc himself was my evidence..

[AuRavelling79]

Well Chris - I'm simply trying to get all parties to shake hands and move on so that we continue with a peaceful helpful section of the forum.

To answer your direct question. I don't know. I may not have the nerve/strength of character/confidence to do so. If the windows are literally green with algae, will take four times the work and with no commitment to continue then I might bottle it and do it for double (say £100) at the upper end of what I normally do for a first clean.

But I haven't got a defined business plan like Marc has and he may well be able to spend his time more wisely.