[chris turner]

Marc...

I know about what I'm about to say will offend you, so I apologise in advance for taking a swipe at you like this. I'm not usually one to start drama on the forum (  ).
After reading this thread however I have to mention this..
So I was sat in my van in Woking 6 weeks ago eating my lunch, when I see a pole go up on the other side of a fence in front of me.
I watched as this pole cleaned all the top windows of this house, to what seemed to me, a terrible standard .
Frames were not touched, glass was given a really quick brush with no rinsing, sills were missed 
Just seemed extremely splash and dash to me.
It wasn't until I finished my lunch and drove around the corner that I saw your van parked in the drive

Now after seeing that I thought I would keep my mouth shut and not cause any dramas. But when reading the prices you quote, well, frankly I find it quite absurd that you actually get away with charging those prices.

I was really torn about whether to actually post this,  as I didn't want to burst your bubble whilst your on your "big push" to 80k. It's just that you expect customers to sign up to your regular service, at a premium price, before they can even see the results of your work. If they don't you quote them ridiculous prices or ridicule them on a forum.
I find that very unreasonable tbh.

[Richard Groves]

BK said ... "I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner"

I think not. I am a window cleaner.

...and so, what about your answer to the second half of that sentence ?

I think you mean this bit?

and ask  if we would agree to a strangers terms to do any work on our homes without them first having proven themselves.

If so then I expect them, at the outset to agree in principle; i.e. that if my window cleaning is up to standard they will have me as a regular window cleaner as per the terms agreed.

Correctamondo !
Perfect answer.
Although some prospective customers can be a little apprehensive to agreeing to anything on a first meeting prior to having actually completed any work. It can be frustrating for us and requires a sixth sense to fathom their intentions. I was merely suggesting we not forget that. Trust is a two way thing. Sure, we'll all be had at some time but often ( in my experience anyway ) its nothing more than needing to prove ourselves to be honest and reliable workers.

Chris Turner, you've just posted the above whilst I was replying but without intending to make this personal to Marc , it  has illustrated my point perfectly !
 I'm giving it a like for that reason  ( don't be offended Marc )

[Shrek]

Oh dear 🤭

[chris turner]

BK said ... "I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner"

I think not. I am a window cleaner.

...and so, what about your answer to the second half of that sentence ?

I think you mean this bit?

and ask  if we would agree to a strangers terms to do any work on our homes without them first having proven themselves.

If so then I expect them, at the outset to agree in principle; i.e. that if my window cleaning is up to standard they will have me as a regular window cleaner as per the terms agreed.

Correctamondo !
Perfect answer.
Although some prospective customers can be a little apprehensive to agreeing to anything on a first meeting prior to having actually completed any work. It can be frustrating for us and requires a sixth sense to fathom their intentions. I was merely suggesting we not forget that. Trust is a two way thing. Sure, we'll all be had at some time but often ( in my experience anyway ) its nothing more than needing to prove ourselves to be honest and reliable workers.

Chris Turner, you've just posted the above whilst I was replying but without intending to make this personal to Marc , it  has illustrated my point perfectly !
 I'm giving it a like for that reason  ( don't be offended Marc )

As I said I was really caught in 2 minds about whether to say anything. I haven't got anything against Marc, he seems like a fairly decent bloke so I didn't really want to offend him.
My problem though, as anyone who knows me on this forum will testify too, is that I speak my mind freely, often to freely where I get myself in to arguments.
On this occasion I completely agreed with where you were coming from, and coincedently it just happened that marc himself was proving your point, which is why I shared.

I hope however that Marc will not be too offended by my critique, but rather take heed of it, and perhaps it could help him grow and actually be a "premium" business like his prices suggest.

[Stoots]

This should be good

First time I've read a post where a windy has seen another windy working and pointed out his poor work   

In Marc's defence perhaps the frames, sills didn't need a real good scrub, and perhaps he gets a good result without a rinse..some seem to do that, I personally always rinse but if he's getting no complaints and people are paying his prices then what's the problem..

[Marc Stock]

BK said ... "I think we need to take ourselves out of the mindset of a window cleaner"

I think not. I am a window cleaner.

...and so, what about your answer to the second half of that sentence ?

I think you mean this bit?

and ask  if we would agree to a strangers terms to do any work on our homes without them first having proven themselves.

If so then I expect them, at the outset to agree in principle; i.e. that if my window cleaning is up to standard they will have me as a regular window cleaner as per the terms agreed.

Correctamondo !
Perfect answer.
Although some prospective customers can be a little apprehensive to agreeing to anything on a first meeting prior to having actually completed any work. It can be frustrating for us and requires a sixth sense to fathom their intentions. I was merely suggesting we not forget that. Trust is a two way thing. Sure, we'll all be had at some time but often ( in my experience anyway ) its nothing more than needing to prove ourselves to be honest and reliable workers.

Chris Turner, you've just posted the above whilst I was replying but without intending to make this personal to Marc , it  has illustrated my point perfectly !
 I'm giving it a like for that reason  ( don't be offended Marc )

As I said I was really caught in 2 minds about whether to say anything. I haven't got anything against Marc, he seems like a fairly decent bloke so I didn't really want to offend him.
My problem though, as anyone who knows me on this forum will testify too, is that I speak my mind freely, often to freely where I get myself in to arguments.
On this occasion I completely agreed with where you were coming from, and coincedently it just happened that marc himself was proving your point, which is why I shared.

I hope however that Marc will not be too offended by my critique, but rather take heed of it, and perhaps it could help him grow and actually be a "premium" business like his prices suggest.

Hiya Chris.

Whilst i do appreciate your critique; and that you seem to think that by me 'splash and dashing' as you so speak of is something of major alarm to you, i havent had any complaints from my customers  with my quality of work.

Now im not going to get into a slanging match with you over the perceived  'correct' methods of cleaning; but i can tell you this. I do clean all the frames and sills, and i do a thoroughly adequate job. I do work fast; and i do work efficiently.

I do see alot of water fed pole operators needlessly scrubbing and 'rinsing' (with the brush off the glass) in the illusion that they are somehow doing a 'superior' job or a better standard of work; and yet they are happy to work with water at 1ppm or even 10 and higher.  When in fact all they are doing is wasting time; wasting water; and loosing money.

The fact is i have been doing window cleaning for 16 years; and i dont know how long you have been in the game; but i can tell you this if you had any ounce of respect for a fellow window cleaner you would message that person privately 1st.

[dazmond]

some guys are just crap at cleaning windows......you should clean windows as if someones watching you from across the road at all times....i always clean frames/sills/doors every time on every property.the only exception is some top frames get missed if their problematic and are just cleaned periodically.i always rinse too(usually off the glass)......you can still clean fast.unfortunately some WCs get greedy and cut corners....personally i wouldnt be comfortable doing this....

[dazmond]

Marc...

I know about what I'm about to say will offend you, so I apologise in advance for taking a swipe at you like this. I'm not usually one to start drama on the forum (  ).
After reading this thread however I have to mention this..
So I was sat in my van in Woking 6 weeks ago eating my lunch, when I see a pole go up on the other side of a fence in front of me.
I watched as this pole cleaned all the top windows of this house, to what seemed to me, a terrible standard .
Frames were not touched, glass was given a really quick brush with no rinsing, sills were missed 
Just seemed extremely splash and dash to me.
It wasn't until I finished my lunch and drove around the corner that I saw your van parked in the drive

Now after seeing that I thought I would keep my mouth shut and not cause any dramas. But when reading the prices you quote, well, frankly I find it quite absurd that you actually get away with charging those prices.

I was really torn about whether to actually post this,  as I didn't want to burst your bubble whilst your on your "big push" to 80k. It's just that you expect customers to sign up to your regular service, at a premium price, before they can even see the results of your work. If they don't you quote them ridiculous prices or ridicule them on a forum.
I find that very unreasonable tbh.

perhaps it was staff or his missus cleaning the windows and not marc himself?

[Marc Stock]

Its ok Dazmond. I think he finds me a threat; i have a feeling i know who it is.

Chris was you that referred me to that job in StJohns?

[Steven Biggs]

Chris . Why didn’t you door knock the custy pointing out the mess of the frames and cills . And give  a price . Then follow him round knocking his custys .

[Marc Stock]

Ahah. I know who you are.

Hi Marc.
Your address on your website is 30 st johns rd Woking..
I clean those little blocks of flats directly across the road from you! ( Priors court )

Il have to pop in for a coffee one day 

Just give me a bell on the phone number chris and ill be happy to meet up to have some coffee.

I befriended you and this is how you pay me back?

If you are happy to slag me off on a public forum and make up lies about my work; you should go back to the customer you passed onto me opposite priors court and ask him about my quality of work, which by the way is higher priced than you were, i wont go into details about his opinions of your prev work; but for the record i have a number of other houses now on that road too; so of course i must be doing a bad job eh?

I might sue You for character defamation.

[chris turner]

Marc...

Not sure why you think I would find you a threat. I have enough customers with no intention of growing further, especially in Woking, would you be a threat to me?
I'm just telling it how I saw it, simple. Why would I come on here and make it up?
And you say I should private pm you?
"Oh hey Marc, saw you out cleaning windows today, didn't think you done a great job to be honest". Wouldn't that be a little odd if you received that out of the blue lol.
Yes I passed you a job in st John's ages ago, you were the only other shiner I knew  in Woking at the time. 
As I said previously Marc, don't get to upset, i stated my observations, perhaps your opinions of what is a "good " job is different to mine.
Just with the prices you like to command, I would of expected better quite frankly.

[Slacky]

Ahah. I know who you are.

Hi Marc.
Your address on your website is 30 st johns rd Woking..
I clean those little blocks of flats directly across the road from you! ( Priors court )

Il have to pop in for a coffee one day 

Just give me a bell on the phone number chris and ill be happy to meet up to have some coffee.

I befriended you and this is how you pay me back?

If you are happy to slag me off on a public forum and make up lies about my work; you should go back to the customer you passed onto me opposite priors court and ask him about my quality of work, which by the way is higher priced than you were, i wont go into details about his opinions of your prev work; but for the record i have a number of other houses now on that road too; so of course i must be doing a bad job eh?

I might sue You for deformation of character

It’s defamation. Unless you really think he was suggesting your character is deformed.

[chris turner]

Ahah. I know who you are.

Hi Marc.
Your address on your website is 30 st johns rd Woking..
I clean those little blocks of flats directly across the road from you! ( Priors court )

Il have to pop in for a coffee one day 

Just give me a bell on the phone number chris and ill be happy to meet up to have some coffee.

I befriended you and this is how you pay me back?

If you are happy to slag me off on a public forum and make up lies about my work; you should go back to the customer you passed onto me opposite priors court and ask him about my quality of work, which by the way is higher priced than you were, i wont go into details about his opinions of your prev work; but for the record i have a number of other houses now on that road too; so of course i must be doing a bad job eh?

I might sue You for deformation of character

Think you have your numbers crossed Marc.
I passed you a contact in pantiles close, st John's, of someone who id NEVER cleaned for before.
I use to clean around 10 houses in pantiles but most of them were a pain as could only gain access to the rear through garages. I got fed up of people forgetting to leave garages unlocked or receiving txts, "we're  away, can you come back next week?".
So I decided to drop the whole road.
Not long after I received a call from someone in pantiles asking if I could clean their windows, I explained why I no longer work on that road and then passed them your details.
I don't or never have cleaned any thing opposite of priors court, although I do clean the whole of priors court flats.

[Marc Stock]

Whatever Chris.

You are borderline. And well under the belt.

By the looks of things im not the only one on the receiving end of your so called expert critique either.

[G Griffin]

Marc...

I know about what I'm about to say will offend you, so I apologise in advance for taking a swipe at you like this. I'm not usually one to start drama on the forum (  ).
After reading this thread however I have to mention this..
So I was sat in my van in Woking 6 weeks ago eating my lunch, when I see a pole go up on the other side of a fence in front of me.
I watched as this pole cleaned all the top windows of this house, to what seemed to me, a terrible standard .
Frames were not touched, glass was given a really quick brush with no rinsing, sills were missed 
Just seemed extremely splash and dash to me.
It wasn't until I finished my lunch and drove around the corner that I saw your van parked in the drive

Now after seeing that I thought I would keep my mouth shut and not cause any dramas. But when reading the prices you quote, well, frankly I find it quite absurd that you actually get away with charging those prices.

I was really torn about whether to actually post this,  as I didn't want to burst your bubble whilst your on your "big push" to 80k. It's just that you expect customers to sign up to your regular service, at a premium price, before they can even see the results of your work. If they don't you quote them ridiculous prices or ridicule them on a forum.
I find that very unreasonable tbh.

That wasn't me nicking the lawnmower in that effluent area of McLarens and dirty sills, you know  .
And why is everyone using the word 'critique' all of a sudden? 
Critiquing and suing? This is what happens when businessmen have to lower themselves to cleaning windows  .

[chris turner]

Whatever Chris.

You are borderline liable. And well under the belt.

I'm just saying, for the prices you claim to charge, I would expect perfection if I was your customer. That's not what I saw I'm afraid.
I have absolutely no reason to lie or put you down.
As I said previously,  I think you are being unreasonable towards your customers, or potential customers.
If you would like to charge a premium, then surely the customer has every right to see your work before signing up to a regular service?

Perhaps I have set my cleaning standards too high and, admittedly, on occasions I over clean. That's how i like it though, no complaints and I never lose customers unless they move etc.
With that in mind, perhaps I am often overly critical of other guys I see out working. In your case Marc, with your prices, I would of thought you would of had similar standards to my own.
I was more surprised then anything when I saw your van.

At the end of the day though, if you can come on here and criticise cumstomers, you should be willing to take the odd bit of criticism yourself. All this "sue" me malarkey, theres no need for it. Man up, live and learn bud.
I am my own worst critic, trust me.

[G Griffin]

I refer the defendant to his description of his work: 'thoroughly adequate'.
What does that mean? Adequate? 

[Marc Stock]

Well there is minging  £50 one off clean job with your name on it Chris; your more than welcome to it clearly youd be happy to do it by the looks of things.

Your opinion is just that; your opinion. I do work quickly and efficiently. I never let my water go above 0ppm. If your the sort that likes to stand there rinsing the glass with 100 litres of water  every time you clean its probbably because you need to change your resin a bit more regularly. If you was at 0ppm no need to waste time flooding the windows rinising..its one if the biggest indicators that the user has no confidence in his equipment.

[chris turner]

Whatever Chris.

You are borderline. And well under the belt.

By the looks of things im not the only one on the receiving end of your so called expert critique either.

I did point out my flaws 

I don't come on these forums much these days as I'm prone to over speaking my mind and causing one or 3 upsets.
I saw what I saw though Marc, I could tell you the exact road and date. I have no reason to lie. You 100% did not touch the frames or sills on the job I watched you clean. Then you didn't rinse, which if you don't clean the frames thoroughly, is a recipe for disaster.