[robert mitchell]

The prefilters won’t filter out calcium, a softener is likely to make your membrane last longer but have to weigh up cost of salt against the cost of a new membrane every year .

A membrane every few weeks!

Got to be a duff membrane then surely ?

[John Mart]

The prefilters won’t filter out calcium, a softener is likely to make your membrane last longer but have to weigh up cost of salt against the cost of a new membrane every year .

A membrane every few weeks!

Got to be a duff membrane then surely ?

They say that if it was faulty it would be faulty immediately - it's become blocked. With the calcium in the housing I'm not really doubting what I'm being told. The guy seemed incredibly knowledgeable at Kennet Water. Doug at Daqua is of the same opinion.

[Go]

You’ve tried flushing the fluck out of it?

[John Mart]

You’ve tried flushing the fluck out of it?

Worth a go Go. 

Trying that now.

[Slacky]

Get a pressure pump.

[John Mart]

Get a pressure pump.

Got one. Clarke’s thing

[Perfect Windows]

Your symptoms are exactly what I was suffering when I had the biological contamination problem. 

I was going through a membrane every two or three months. Bleaching it utterly fixed the problem - no need to throw away any kit.

Current setup is a DI vessel 2/3 full (don't overfill) of acid washed charcoal as my input filter, followed by a 20" particle filter (to pick up any charcoal washed out of the DI vessel). Clarke pump. HF4 4040, then into twin DIs. 

My water ranges from 270-330 TDS or so. The water coming out of my RO is generally 10TDS and the membrane is around five years old. I flush it when I think about it (probably three times a year) for twenty minutes.

Check for slime before you do anything else.

Vin

[John Mart]

Your symptoms are exactly what I was suffering when I had the biological contamination problem. 

I was going through a membrane every two or three months. Bleaching it utterly fixed the problem - no need to throw away any kit.

Current setup is a DI vessel 2/3 full (don't overfill) of acid washed charcoal as my input filter, followed by a 20" particle filter (to pick up any charcoal washed out of the DI vessel). Clarke pump. HF4 4040, then into twin DIs. 

My water ranges from 270-330 TDS or so. The water coming out of my RO is generally 10TDS and the membrane is around five years old. I flush it when I think about it (probably three times a year) for twenty minutes.

Check for slime before you do anything else.

Vin

I'd be sure you were right if it wasn't for the calcium build up I saw on the last membrane change. I haven't opened again the housing as (believe it or not) I find it a stress in case it doesn't go back correctly. I'll see if it settles with the softener and take it from there.

[Don Kee]

Your symptoms are exactly what I was suffering when I had the biological contamination problem. 

I was going through a membrane every two or three months. Bleaching it utterly fixed the problem - no need to throw away any kit.

Current setup is a DI vessel 2/3 full (don't overfill) of acid washed charcoal as my input filter, followed by a 20" particle filter (to pick up any charcoal washed out of the DI vessel). Clarke pump. HF4 4040, then into twin DIs. 

My water ranges from 270-330 TDS or so. The water coming out of my RO is generally 10TDS and the membrane is around five years old. I flush it when I think about it (probably three times a year) for twenty minutes.

Check for slime before you do anything else.

Vin

I'd be sure you were right if it wasn't for the calcium build up I saw on the last membrane change. I haven't opened again the housing as (believe it or not) I find it a stress in case it doesn't go back correctly. I'll see if it settles with the softener and take it from there.

Funnily enough, Frank said he’d spoken to you about the issue you were having and one of the first things I mentioned was Vin and his Bleaching routine.

In fairness though, Doug at Daqua is the dogs danglies so if he says to try a softener then I’d try a softener!

Surely though the problem with just sticking a softener in front is that the calcium build up that built up from when the softener wasn’t there will still be in the housing, therefore still contaminting the membrane..?

I’d have thought you need to clear all of that first and then stick the softener in front (with possible a new membrane)

[John Mart]

Your symptoms are exactly what I was suffering when I had the biological contamination problem. 

I was going through a membrane every two or three months. Bleaching it utterly fixed the problem - no need to throw away any kit.

Current setup is a DI vessel 2/3 full (don't overfill) of acid washed charcoal as my input filter, followed by a 20" particle filter (to pick up any charcoal washed out of the DI vessel). Clarke pump. HF4 4040, then into twin DIs. 

My water ranges from 270-330 TDS or so. The water coming out of my RO is generally 10TDS and the membrane is around five years old. I flush it when I think about it (probably three times a year) for twenty minutes.

Check for slime before you do anything else.

Vin

I'd be sure you were right if it wasn't for the calcium build up I saw on the last membrane change. I haven't opened again the housing as (believe it or not) I find it a stress in case it doesn't go back correctly. I'll see if it settles with the softener and take it from there.

Funnily enough, Frank said he’d spoken to you about the issue you were having and one of the first things I mentioned was Vin and his Bleaching routine.

In fairness though, Doug at Daqua is the dogs danglies so if he says to try a softener then I’d try a softener!

Surely though the problem with just sticking a softener in front is that the calcium build up that built up from when the softener wasn’t there will still be in the housing, therefore still contaminting the membrane..?

I’d have thought you need to clear all of that first and then stick the softener in front (with possible a new membrane)

Yes, sort of. I’m going to monitor the TDS and production rate over a couple of weeks and if it doesn’t worsen I’ll assume that I’ve identified the problem and I’ll change the membrane. I don’t want to buy a new one until I’ve identified the issue.

[John Mart]

Interestingly the TDS has dropped to 17 since introducing the softener. I’ve just stuck it on flush for an hour.

[Don Kee]

Don’t blame you at all for not wanting to spend on a new membrane after the amount you already have, but you’re missing my point...

You still need to clear all the calcium that is already in the housing, the softener wont get rid of the calcium thats already ‘upstream’ so to speak, it’ll only clear the calcium of the water going in to the membrane.

Therefore the calicum that is already there will surely continue to degrade said membrane (albeit slowly), whether or not there is a softener in front or not...

[Don Kee]

Interestingly the TDS has dropped to 17 since introducing the softener. I’ve just stuck it on flush for an hour.

Good news 👍👍👍

[Bungle]

The consensus is I need a water softener so I’ve ordered one from Daqua.

doubt it

our water is 320 to 380 - i produce 1500 to 2500 litres a day - an axeon membrane will last a year at 006 before starting to rise when it gets to 012 i replace it -  i don't use resin as you go through it so quickly even at 012 its more cost effective to have a new membrane

darran

You don't use resin? At all?

[John Mart]

Don’t blame you at all for not wanting to spend on a new membrane after the amount you already have, but you’re missing my point...

You still need to clear all the calcium that is already in the housing, the softener wont get rid of the calcium thats already ‘upstream’ so to speak, it’ll only clear the calcium of the water going in to the membrane.

Therefore the calicum that is already there will surely continue to degrade said membrane (albeit slowly), whether or not there is a softener in front or not...

Yes, I get that, but I’m not going to even bother trying to remove the calcium from the membrane and clearing any from the housing won’t make a noticeable difference. I’ll see if it stabilises over a couple of weeks and if so I’ll replace the membrane on the assumption that the new one won’t be ruined as the problem has been identified. There’s no point in opening up the housing twice as the membrane has to be replaced anyway.

[Smudger]

The consensus is I need a water softener so I’ve ordered one from Daqua.

doubt it

our water is 320 to 380 - i produce 1500 to 2500 litres a day - an axeon membrane will last a year at 006 before starting to rise when it gets to 012 i replace it -  i don't use resin as you go through it so quickly even at 012 its more cost effective to have a new membrane

darran

You don't use resin? At all?

No theres no need at that low level

Darran

[Spruce]

The prefilters won’t filter out calcium, a softener is likely to make your membrane last longer but have to weigh up cost of salt against the cost of a new membrane every year .

A membrane every few weeks!

Got to be a duff membrane then surely ?

GAPS water also sell them. The specs brag a higher rejection rate than an Axeon membrane. They state its a replacement for an Axeon HF1 membrane. Its also not a membrane listed under their window cleaners section. Axeon and Spectrum are the membranes listed there so I would say that it isn't the right membrane for our needs.

According to Axeon the HF1 membrane needs a much higher water pressure than the HF4 and HF5.
.

[Spruce]

Don’t blame you at all for not wanting to spend on a new membrane after the amount you already have, but you’re missing my point...

You still need to clear all the calcium that is already in the housing, the softener wont get rid of the calcium thats already ‘upstream’ so to speak, it’ll only clear the calcium of the water going in to the membrane.

Therefore the calicum that is already there will surely continue to degrade said membrane (albeit slowly), whether or not there is a softener in front or not...

Someone once said that fitting a water softener will help remove existing lime scale in the pipe work of a house suffering from this malady.

I have just Googled it.

https://www.harveywatersofteners.co.uk/water-softener/faqs/does-it-take-long-remove-scale-when-you-start-using-softened-water

This could be also just be sales spiel, I don't know.  However, what we do know is that the tds of water through a softener doesn't reduce the water tds after it. This page says it does. So in my mind this would make the report on the whole page suspect.

But the person who told me that originally had no reason to hype the results of adding a water softener.

[andyM]

GAPS water also sell them. The specs brag a higher rejection rate than an Axeon membrane. They state its a replacement for an Axeon HF1 membrane. Its also not a membrane listed under their window cleaners section. Axeon and Spectrum are the membranes listed there so I would say that it isn't the right membrane for our needs.

According to Axeon the HF1 membrane needs a much higher water pressure than the HF4 and HF5.
.

You could be on to something there Spruce.
8 weekly hasn't specified exactly which membrane he is using but looking on the supplier website he linked to the PWG membranes look as if they require a higher operating pressure (150 psi)?

[John Mart]

GAPS water also sell them. The specs brag a higher rejection rate than an Axeon membrane. They state its a replacement for an Axeon HF1 membrane. Its also not a membrane listed under their window cleaners section. Axeon and Spectrum are the membranes listed there so I would say that it isn't the right membrane for our needs.

According to Axeon the HF1 membrane needs a much higher water pressure than the HF4 and HF5.
.

You could be on to something there Spruce.
8 weekly hasn't specified exactly which membrane he is using but looking on the supplier website he linked to the PWG membranes look as if they require a higher operating pressure (150 psi)?

This may be correct, but to start with it was fine, so I suspect it’s not the cause.