[james peters]

I think there is too much emphasis on figures here in this thread.
I don't doubt john mart, I think what he is achieving is brill, and hats off to him . I have learnt a lot from his posts and I have been doing this a lot longer { 26 years }
I am not going to post my figures , but I am doing ok . Its just me and my daughter, and I am growing steadily from a push forward through leafleting for the first 5 months of this year. my flyers have my website which people have been nosing at from flyers . this in turn has pushed me higher up on google searches prompting more enquiries . I only wish to grow at 5 new custies a week . but I charge more on first cleans these days .
but here is my point on this thread … instead of concentrating on what looks good on paper. I make sure that every customer I get pays on time without reminders . if they cant I don't call again  .I am only interested in quality paying customers.  we go to work for money , not chasing idiots and chancers that cant be bothered to pay.
..I never have outstanding money as I have set my boundaries , and this makes all the difference.
 

[John Mart]

At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.

Quite true

I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.

You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.

i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together......

Look to yourselves.

Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.

Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.

Stop modded whining and man up!

[Dry Clean]

[Stoots]

At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.

Quite true

I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.

You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.

i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together......

Look to yourselves.

Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.

Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.

Stop modded whining and man up!

With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.

So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...

You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.

Shrek doesn't live near me either...

Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.

I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.

You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.

[Shrek]

Over 450 properties on rightmove right now in Wakefield that are worth over £150,000 upto 1.7 million.
Are you sure you aren’t targeting the bottom of the market £60k houses?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1386&insId=1&minPrice=150000&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying

[John Mart]

At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.

Quite true

I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.

You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.

i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together......

Look to yourselves.

Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.

Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.

Stop modded whining and man up!

With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.

So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...

You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.

Shrek doesn't live near me either...

Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.

I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.

You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.

So you're saying Northerners are by nature criminal and don't pay bills?

[deeege]

At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.

Quite true

I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.

You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.

i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together......

Look to yourselves.

Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.

Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.

Stop modded whining and man up!

With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.

So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...

You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.

Shrek doesn't live near me either...

Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.

I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.

You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.

So you're saying Northerners are by nature criminal and don't pay bills?

I’ve read and re-read his post multiple times and I’ve no idea how you came to this conclusion Steve 

[Stoots]

Over 450 properties on rightmove right now in Wakefield that are worth over £150,000 upto 1.7 million.
Are you sure you aren’t targeting the bottom of the market £60k houses?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1386&insId=1&minPrice=150000&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying

450? Wakefield has a population of 325,000 . What kind of percentage is that?

but that's not the issue, it's not all about house price it's about the area in general. The same guys that are cleaning the lower end stuff for a fiver are also cleaning the 200k plus houses for a tenner., why because it's all in the same area. Peole in am area become price conditioned...Apart from a few small villages there's not an expanse of 200k plus propertys across the whole city..which means the prices are lower generally.

Do people just assume that if you not getting £20 a house it's through lack of effort, being a bit thick or clueless? Maybe some of us have tried and tried and still end up banging our heads against the wall price rise because they are just too many window cleaners working far too cheaply which keeps the entire area down.

[Stoots]

At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.

Quite true

I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.

You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.

i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together......

Look to yourselves.

Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.

Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.

Stop modded whining and man up!

With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.

So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...

You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.

Shrek doesn't live near me either...

Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.

I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.

You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.

So you're saying Northerners are by nature criminal and don't pay bills?

I’ve read and re-read his post multiple times and I’ve no idea how you came to this conclusion Steve 

Yeh I didn't get it, I think it was one of them cryptic type posts that people go for when they run out of an answer to the excellent points raised by another.

But it's a pointless debate because I see it how it is for me and john sees it how it is for him.

Until you've walked in anothers shoes anything you say is irrelevant.

[Dry Clean]

Over 450 properties on rightmove right now in Wakefield that are worth over £150,000 upto 1.7 million.
Are you sure you aren’t targeting the bottom of the market £60k houses?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1386&insId=1&minPrice=150000&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying

450? Wakefield has a population of 325,000 . What kind of percentage is that?

but that's not the issue, it's not all about house price it's about the area in general. The same guys that are cleaning the lower end stuff for a fiver are also cleaning the 200k plus houses for a tenner., why because it's all in the same area. Peole in am area become price conditioned...Apart from a few small villages there's not an expanse of 200k plus propertys across the whole city..which means the prices are lower generally.

Do people just assume that if you not getting £20 a house it's through lack of effort, being a bit thick or clueless? Maybe some of us have tried and tried and still end up banging our heads against the wall price rise because they are just too many window cleaners working far too cheaply which keeps the entire area down.

Gomo smile and nod mate, there are a few on here who think they discovered and invented window cleaning, one minute
they will be telling you they get the big prices because they offer a better service to people who can afford better the next
they will be splashing and dashing  them out in all weathers and to hell with the customer. lol.

[Stoots]

Sorry shrek I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my reply to you my frustration was really aimed towards john mart.

But just for comparison sake

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E61324&insId=2&minPrice=150000&numberOfPropertiesPerPage=24&areaSizeUnit=sqft&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying

Surrey has a population of 1.1million and almost 25`000 propertys above 150k

Wakefield has a population of 325k and 450 properties above 150k.

The point I am trying to make is that the entire region is top end compared to just a few in and amongst the bottom end hence why the whole region is price conditioned to lower prices.

We all know this and we all know that's why prices are double in one area.

I'm not telling anyone anything new its just frustrating when someone in another area is trying to tell someone else in another how to run a business like the other is somehow just an idiot.

You see it all the time on forums etc, how.much for this fsg...oh £50 then someone else saying £300.

The £50 quid guy is confused because he has tried charging that amount a dozen times but simply can't get it . The 300 quid guy doesn't understand why as he he gets it all day long and just assumes the other guy is a retard.

It's a fairly simple rule of business that prices are dictated by the market and that the % of quotes you get in your market determines the prices you should set .

Like in said above I think some of us live in different worlds and will never get it.

But anyway I'm off to work lol I didn't really intent to get dragged into this one

[Dry Clean]

Its disposable income rather than the price of property that determines pricing, sometimes it can be easier to get a decent price from somebody in a low priced terraced property than somebody with a large  expensive property who's mortgaged to the hilt.

[Stoots]

I disagree, just because you have more money or a better house doesn't mean you will pay over the market rate.

If the areas window cleaners generally all charge £8 then everyone knows that's the going rate. If you try and charge someone £15 yet they are aware all their friends, neighbours etc are paying less for similar propertys then why would they pay it, especially if there are loads of other window cleaners about

If I was looking for a service and I rang round for quotes and all of them came back at £100 and all the people I know who have had a similar service over the years for a similar price then that price becomes conditioned. Word of mouth spreads, people talk.


If I then look for that service again I know I want to be paying £100, because after all that's how much it's costs right...

But whatever lol that's my opinion no point banging on about it any longer.

I will smile and nod in future.

[dazmond]

i work in mainly affluent areas in cheshire but dont live there...the trick is to live in an area where its much lower housing costs,etc BUT try and build up your work in affluent areas where you can charge higher prices.its took me 25 years.LOL.

but even in these affluent areas people are not stupid.......you cant just go around charging ridiculously high prices or you ll never get(and keep)any work as theres lots of  very cheap window cleaners about who will clean for next to nothing...

the trick is to find the middle ground....not too cheap and not too expensive IMO.....

surrey and some london areas have their own economy which is far different than lots of other areas around the uk and they are able to charge much much more....

[Bernie Green]

I have been cleaning windows off and on for more than 40 years. The only thing I have learned about pricing in that time is that its a total mystery.
The more you do it the less you understand, as long as you are happy with what you get that's good enough.

I quoted a house at £25 a couple of weeks ago. She told me after she had accepted  that another window cleaner had quoted £65. Amazed but what do I know?

[Shrek]

Sorry shrek I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my reply to you my frustration was really aimed towards john mart.

But just for comparison sake

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E61324&insId=2&minPrice=150000&numberOfPropertiesPerPage=24&areaSizeUnit=sqft&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying

Surrey has a population of 1.1million and almost 25`000 propertys above 150k

Wakefield has a population of 325k and 450 properties above 150k.

The point I am trying to make is that the entire region is top end compared to just a few in and amongst the bottom end hence why the whole region is price conditioned to lower prices.

We all know this and we all know that's why prices are double in one area.

I'm not telling anyone anything new its just frustrating when someone in another area is trying to tell someone else in another how to run a business like the other is somehow just an idiot.

You see it all the time on forums etc, how.much for this fsg...oh £50 then someone else saying £300.

The £50 quid guy is confused because he has tried charging that amount a dozen times but simply can't get it . The 300 quid guy doesn't understand why as he he gets it all day long and just assumes the other guy is a retard.

It's a fairly simple rule of business that prices are dictated by the market and that the % of quotes you get in your market determines the prices you should set .

Like in said above I think some of us live in different worlds and will never get it.

But anyway I'm off to work lol I didn't really intent to get dragged into this one

I understand what your saying but I think your wrong. My town has 110,000 population but that doesn’t mean everyone knows how much it cost to clean their house. There’s guys with massive rounds that charge 8 squid a house but that doesn’t bother me. If people accept my higher price than fare enough , if not there are other people to do it cheaper.
My point being about house prices are that to afford a 150k house , you would have to be earning around 30k a year. Now those 450 or so houses on rightmove earn this or have a big deposit. Those 450 houses obviously have neighbours so then it turns into thousands that have a house worth this much. So it’s not just 450 houses in Wakefield, it’s a lot more . You are not poor if you can afford a 150k house.
You sound like you price your jobs like a customer instead of pricing it with what you really want for it.

[John Mart]

At times in the winter you can't just plough on regardless when you live and work in the north.

Quite true

I just think some of us live in two different worlds on here and its easy to forget that.
Just because one person has no problem sticking out a few thousand leaflets and raking in £20 15 min jobs doesnt mean someone somewhere else in the country isnt doing exactly the same thing with much poorer results. Sometimes its not lack of mentality, attitude or application its simply we have totally different markets.

You cant compare working in the leafy suburbs of surrey to the ex mining towns of the north, its the same country but worlds apart.

i agree as well adam......i still cant bring myself to believe that someone can turnover 90k a year cleaning windows on their own......do you know anyone?.....no neither do i! ......in fact most window cleaners i know are just about scratching a living together......

Look to yourselves.

Most window cleaners here are just about scratching a living! I have two local windies that repeatedly tell me that leaflets don't work. Shrek was saying the other day that his average job is £22 and he's in the north. Adam was saying he's had 150 non payers? That tells me he's targeting the bottom of the market.

Re: the snow. Put it in the contract that days lost through extreme conditions get made up with Saturday work. We lost two days in the snow as I deemed the roads unsafe.

Stop modded whining and man up!

With the greatest of respect youve no idea what you are talking about.

So that's where I'm going wrong, I'm targeting the bottom of the market...

You've just made my point you are looking at it from your perspective based on your experience in your area.

Shrek doesn't live near me either...

Unless you are from the area I am you have no business telling me what can and can't be done.

I am targeting the bottom of the market? I work in the best areas of my city, please show me where the top end is because I don't see no millionaire's round here... houses round here start from 60k for a terraced, this isn't Cheshire mate it's west Yorkshire.

You are out of touch with reality for a lot of cleaners and you are out of touch with what life is like in other parts of the country.

So you're saying Northerners are by nature criminal and don't pay bills?

I’ve read and re-read his post multiple times and I’ve no idea how you came to this conclusion Steve 

Because he says that non payers on that scale is something that is somehow peculiar to the north (or his part of it). In 8 years I seriously doubt I've had 10 non payers, yet he's had 150 or so in a few months. So it's either a northern thing or his targeting shyte houses and areas.

People that say they want to achieve this that and the other generally fail either because they aren't bright enough or aren't focussed. Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Gomo gone from employing to not employing to employing again. Then saying it doesn't work. Hasn't he now set up a marketing initiative for other window cleaners? Yet he can't gain decent work for himself. Does this indicate single mindedness to you? He's defeated before he even starts. There's plenty around here like that too.

There's nothing genius about employing, gaining work or cleaning windows. In fact there's nothing genius about any business in the domestic service area, but you do need commitment and focus to build a solid one man business or a multi van business. Whining gets you nowhere.

Before launching back Adam, consider the wisdom in the above.

[nathankaye]

Someone's thread above, mentioned if in an area where the going rate is £8 a pop that everyone will know it and won't pay £15 to someone else.

I understand where your coming from but I would have to disagree due to my own experience and yes it can boil down to the little extras which makes the difference.
For instance, in some areas I work the average charge is between £8 - £10, whereas I charge £15 and still picking up new work.   I've picked up work in these areas due to word of mouth from my newish customers and guess why.     I've been told its because I text before I come for the gates and they really like that as a professional touch. In addition they like that payment is by direct debit unlike cash as when these other window cleaners catch them in to pay.  Finally it's because I do a good job and I'm not saying the eight pound guys aren't, I'm just simply saying what I get told. So yes, some clients don't mind paying for a more complete package even in areas where others charge silly prices and I'm up north.  Also to point that I used to charge the going rates thinking I couldn't charge more and how wrong I was and I haven't looked back since.

[deeege]

I have a friend that lives just outside Wakefield, (Thorpe), in a 3 story townhouse, a type of house that I clean many of. Usually take no longer than 20 minutes. He pays £22 monthly and is very happy with that price.

I live and work in Cheshire and I don’t get £22 for these type of houses.

Just saying.

[deeege]

i work in mainly affluent areas in cheshire but dont live there...the trick is to live in an area where its much lower housing costs,etc BUT try and build up your work in affluent areas where you can charge higher prices.its took me 25 years.LOL.

but even in these affluent areas people are not stupid.......you cant just go around charging ridiculously high prices or you ll never get(and keep)any work as theres lots of  very cheap window cleaners about who will clean for next to nothing...

the trick is to find the middle ground....not too cheap and not too expensive IMO.....

surrey and some london areas have their own economy which is far different than lots of other areas around the uk and they are able to charge much much more....

We’ve covered this before but I couldn’t disagree with this more Daz, who wants to live in a bad area surrounded by dossers and druggies? not me. The trick is to live in a nice area but own your own home so you are not paying silly money for the privilege