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Gary f

  • Posts: 121
Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« on: June 19, 2018, 06:52:13 am »
Hi need some help to decide whether too get booster pump one to make membrane last longer and speed water production up

Show pictures do you use j p fittings not garden hose.... from booster pump too

Thanks for help

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2018, 08:41:56 pm »
I use 3/4" garden hose from tap to booster pump.
Then all the fittings and tubing from then on are 1/2" John Guest. 
One of the Plebs

Gary f

  • Posts: 121
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 05:44:27 pm »
Which booster pump are you using and thanks bit disappointed with help
Most seem to be 2 inch outlets
Look forward too reply
Pressure 50 at tap
Does pressure increase at membrane when u do half and half water
Thanks gary

Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 05:53:28 pm »
Even low pressure membranes do better with a booster pump - increased flow so more litres per hour and lower TDS with a booster pump our water goes from 280 to 3 at around 140 lph without it only reaches 20 at 70 lph so the saving in resin alone pays for a pump in 3 months ( I do produce 1,500 to 2,000 litres a day )

Get a reducing threaded  union from pump housing to the size that matches your system most likely 3/4 bsp

Search back a page or 2 some pumps are recommended on another thread

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018, 08:03:15 pm »
Which booster pump are you using and thanks bit disappointed with help
Most seem to be 2 inch outlets
Look forward too reply
Pressure 50 at tap
Does pressure increase at membrane when u do half and half water
Thanks gary

I've got a Clarke cbm240 pump.
As Smudger said all you need to do is buy a brass threaded reducing union for the pump to reduce the outlet to 3/4".
They are available from plumbing outlets or Toolstation and Screwfix etc. 
One of the Plebs


s.w.c

  • Posts: 1174
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 04:13:14 pm »
why not forget pump and add reducer to waste and production in correct sizing it takes ten mins to pressurise the system without air locks then it runs perfectly without a need for a pump this is providing your not in a rush, it's like the old permeate pump that uses no electricity,

https://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/how-permeate-pumps-work

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 04:39:39 pm »
Which booster pump are you using and thanks bit disappointed with help
Most seem to be 2 inch outlets
Look forward too reply
Pressure 50 at tap
Does pressure increase at membrane when u do half and half water
Thanks gary

Tap water pressure is important but you also need water volume to support a 4040 low pressure membrane.

Our tap has 50 psi wp and the tap delivers 13lpm of water.

HF5 membrane produces 2lpm of pure and 2lpm of waste without booster pump. Input tds between 97 and 147ppm. TDS of pure before di = 2ppm usually and on occassion 3ppm. I'm happy with that.

I seem to remember the figure of a minimum of 9lpm of delivery from the tap for a 4040 when used with a booster pump. Even with a tap delivery of 13lpm flushing the toilet or running a bath will reduce pressure to the r/o to around 15 to 20psi whilst the toilet cistern or header tank refills.

If the wife wants to water the garden or put the sprinkler on the lawn, I will switch the r/o off until she is finished.

Does pressure increase at membrane when u do half and half water

Anything between 50/50 and 60/40 waste to pure ratio doesn't change my water pressure at the membrane (read from the gauge between prefilter and membrane.)  But if you have a poor water flow then there will be a small difference between 50/50 and 60/40.  But when I flush with the waste fully open the pressure gauge hardly reads any pressure at all. So if I'm at 70/30 of 80/20 then the pressure is very low.

Sorry you are a bit disappointed with help. The majority of window cleaners have sufficient water pressure so don't have experience with booster pumps.
We only have 1 cleaner in a 5 mile radius of where we live who uses a booster pump. He only uses one as his r/o is a 300gpd and doesn't produce enough water for his daily requirements without the booster pump. The rest of us don't need one or manage without one.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Gary f

  • Posts: 121
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 07:55:53 pm »
How often you flush  ro and do you do it before producing water to keep to healthy
How long do you get out of a membrane .
Or do you flush after producing  water and for how long
Cheers

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 08:08:24 pm »
How often you flush  ro and do you do it before producing water to keep to healthy
How long do you get out of a membrane .
Or do you flush after producing  water and for how long
Cheers

I was talking to Doug at daqua today , he said flush regular (I flush before i produce pure) for about 15 mins. I was advised that membranes should last between 1-3 years if you change the pre filters regular

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 08:36:06 pm »
My Hf4 membrane is 5 years old and I never flush it.
The output TDS is now starting to rise and currently comes out at 20ppm where as it was 8-9ppm.
So i will probably be replacing it for a new one in the near future when it becomes uneconomical to keep running because of resin useage.
However the life span has exceeded my expectations so i am happy with the service life it has given.
 
One of the Plebs

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2018, 06:43:50 am »
How often you flush  ro and do you do it before producing water to keep to healthy
How long do you get out of a membrane .
Or do you flush after producing  water and for how long
Cheers

TBH I flush the membrane every 'blue moon.'  It will mostly be when I open the cabinet to check to see what the state of the sediment filter is like which is probably once every 2 to 3 weeks.

When I do flush it will usually be for a few minutes. I'm afraid I'm not a good example to follow when it comes to flushing.

I remember once that June from GAPS Water said that flushing wasn't that necessary, so that sent a subliminal message to the  'can't be bothered to do it side' of my brain.

Fortunately, we live in a catchment area where the water has a low calcium content so probably the main reason why I get away with my tardiness. However, my membrane will be 7 years old in September and is still performing at 98% efficiency. For me, I believe that the reason why the membrane has lasted so well is that I change the carbon block prefilter at the exact time recommended by the manufacturers.

I use a 20" Fiberdyne carbon block at when the count down water meter alarm goes off after the r/o has used 77,000 liters of water, the prefilters get changed immediately. If I can't do it then and there, I switch the r/o off until I can do it.

The previous r/o was a 450gpd and the membranes lasted 6 years as well.  That r/o was purchased second hand and was 1 year old. The prefilters hadn't be changed by the previous owner until I purchased the whole system. I had to replace those membranes 6 months after I purchased the wfp system which included the r/o.

In those early days there wasn't any supplier who sold long lasting 5 micron carbon block filters that I was aware of. So we used to change our 10" c/b filter every 3 months because that's what we were told to do. It was only later that a slip of paper was added to the packaging of the GAC filters we used that they only had a service life of 10,000 liters. At a 3 waste to 1 pure non adjustable restrictor, that meant that I should have changed my c/b filter after every 3 IBC tank fulls, which I certainly wasn't doing. (Maybe that 10k service life slip included in the packaging wasn't correct, I don't know. Maybe they included that to cover themselves for a future claim. I phoned the supplier to ask why the same 10k service life was applicable to the 10" and the 20" but was told that is what the manufacturer recommended. That didn't make sense as the 20" should have lasted twice as long. Gardiners were then selling the Fiberdyne range so I bought those. The 10" Fiberdyne filter has half the service life of a 20" and that made sense to me. I still have a GAC filter under my desk which I purchased 6.5 years ago.)

Those 450gpd membranes lasted a long time considering that they probably produced the same amount of water we always used, about 75k (waste plus pure combined) every 3 months. So does this mean that our chlorine content is very low in our water supply? Possibly. Does it also mean that I could extend my usage of each Fiberdyne filter to say 100k and still be fine? Maybe, but I found sticking to the manufacturers service life guidelines has worked for me so I will just carry on doing what I have done in the past 6 and a half years.

.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Perfect Windows

  • Posts: 4179
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2018, 08:20:26 am »
How often you flush  ro and do you do it before producing water to keep to healthy
How long do you get out of a membrane .
Or do you flush after producing  water and for how long
Cheers

I flush a couple of times a year and I've either had five or six years out of this membrane.

June at Gaps says that she thinks window cleaners are "bl**dy obsessed" with flushing.

For prefilters consider a spectrum DI vessel 2/3 full of acid-washed charcoal.  We all replace the charcoal annually.

Vin

Gary f

  • Posts: 121
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2018, 08:56:29 pm »
Do you use a carbon filer 5 micron and sediment  filter
Or sediment filter  and carbon block cbr2
Filter from cleaning spot
Want to too last

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: Cheap booster pump versus low pressure membrsne New
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 09:25:30 pm »
Do you use a carbon filer 5 micron and sediment  filter
Or sediment filter  and carbon block cbr2
Filter from cleaning spot
Want to too last

I'm afraid Cleaning Spot don't give much technical info on their product/s. You can't make an informed buying decision when they supply no info. So I wouldn't buy this from them - period.

Here is the Fiberdyne 10" filter link
http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pure-water-systems/water-treatment/sediment-carbon-filters/fibredyne-cfb-plus-sediment-carbon-pre-filter-10.html

Here is the 10" sediment filter link.
http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pure-water-systems/water-treatment/sediment-carbon-filters/sediment-pre-filter-10.html

If your water isn't sediment laden then you could get away with just using a single Fiberdyne carbon block filter without a sediment filter.

As I've said before, our Teesside water supply can be heavily laden with sediment. I've often changed a sediment filter once a month and the c/b on the 3rd month. I'd rather throw away a cheap sediment filter each month than a more expensive c/b filter.

I use a 5 micron c/b filter and a 5 micron sediment filter. What the sediment filter doesn't catch (particles smaller than 5 micron) the c/b filter won't catch either.

I once fitted a 5 micron sediment filter and a 1 micron c/b filter. A 20" 1 micron c/b filter had twice the service life of the Fiberdyne 5 micron filter. But it blocked up with small sediment at around 40k of water - so approx a quarter of its service. I tried to back flush it and I tried to clean the filter with a jet of water from the hose pipe. Neither worked and I ended up throwing the filter away.

The Gardiner filters have worked for me for the past 6.5 years so I'll stick to buying those as I trust them.
 
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)