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Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8865
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2018, 08:17:58 am »
Thanks

I'm off to look at some vans this afternoon
I know own which one I want now

If I can get HP finance I'll probably go that route, will just need to save up a deposit.

I don't need one just yet so


If you have a good credit rating then go for a personal loan, it will be a lot cheaper than HP and you wont need a deposit.
Plus as a cash buyer you will get a better deal on the van .

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2018, 09:54:10 am »
Just to put my opinion across.
Just handed my van back to Vanarama after 4 years. Gave me wrong date so I got over charged for end of contract.
Had it in a body shop for all minor scratches and dents. I've got OCD and I really looked after it by the way
Final bill £541
I would never lease again. I've just bought a new van. If you've got good credit history I'd get a loan and purchase the newest van you can afford.

Unfortunately it happens more often than you are told about. Its the Lessors cash cow as the expression goes. This is the time when they can find any excuse to find faults and bill for it. Look how the holiday car rental companies are playing the game to their advantage in Spain and Portugal. Its similar here.

This is why its so important to get a copy of their 'fair wear and tear' booklet so you know what the return vehicle is being judged on/by.

http://www.bvrla.co.uk/advice/guidance/returning-your-leased-vehicle

For example, at one time Enterprise would charge for every little stone chip, but their current standards (last time brother in law hired a posh car from them for the weekend) say any scratches or marks smaller than a 20p piece would be seen as fair wear and tear.

Sadly, it also depends on who does the return vehicle's appraisal. Some are more linient than others in the same company.

I certainly agree with you to get a copy of the final signed appraisal at all costs. As a last resort you have to get a photocopy and ask the appraiser to sign and date that copy in ink so nothing can be added to their documents later.

Good on you for arguing the spare key story. That's a favourite one.

The other one was servicing. At one time it could only be serviced at a garage authorised or approved by the finance house. So that would be at the main agent's workshop and not Kwik-Fit around the corner. I think things have changed, but they can still claim the service was not done to the manufacturers specifications - an interim service for example, and penalise to customer for that. Unfortunately, this sort of thing usually occurs after the next lease vehicle has been signed for so you are stuck for the duration of the next lease.

In all due honesty, I would stay away from Contract Hire in our business, and consider a lease where you can afford to pay the final payment and take ownership of the vehicle when the lease is up like Dazmond is doing. We often had customers increase the monthly payments to make the final balloon payment smaller. If a van was sold to a builder, then the majority of lease deals where a final balloon payment of £1.00 due to the nature of the way that industry in general used to treat their vans. (Much like window cleaners and leisure batteries  ;D)
 
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2018, 10:01:26 am »
Thanks

I'm off to look at some vans this afternoon
I know own which one I want now

If I can get HP finance I'll probably go that route, will just need to save up a deposit.

I don't need one just yet so


If you have a good credit rating then go for a personal loan, it will be a lot cheaper than HP and you wont need a deposit.
Plus as a cash buyer you will get a better deal on the van .

I'm going to agree with you, but again one needs to know exactly what the conditions of that personal loan are. One example was a fellow who signed up for a personal loan without realising (or ignoring) the fact that his house was surity for the loan. He fell into arrears for whatever reason and the bank came knocking for the house, not his vehicle.

My son and his wife having been paying the same amount into their mortgage as they did before the interest rates dropped 10 years ago. So they have a lot of equity in the mortgage they can draw from. If they buy a new vehicle, they can use this 'fund' and in effect be paying a pittance interest rate.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

zesty

  • Posts: 2459
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2018, 10:21:22 am »
I bought a transit custom second hand Adam.

63 plate, fully serviced from a main dealer. No finance, just saved for 3 years. Never looked back. No monthly payments. No returning the van.  Can sell it at anytime privately or chop it in if I ever fancy a new one. It took discipline to save, but I was driving a 06 transit connect before the custom so just decided to buy a van outright that will last 3 years and still be worth something after that.

I hate monthly payments. Hate them.

So for me I prefer to buy outright if I can. This means less stress if the weather is bad in winter/Xmas as I haven’t got to pay £££ for a van each month.

My advice, not necessarily right, is to save and buy one outright, then sell it in 2/3 years and pay a small amount for a slightly newer one.

It really is each to there own though. For me, I prefer Minimal monthly payments, and I prefer to have the van outright mine from day 1.




Stoots

  • Posts: 6213
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2018, 10:57:26 am »
I can get a loan although my credit reting must not be that good  as the best APR I can get is 12.9% (I've asked both banks who I bank with)

It might be that I can get a better rate on HP I need to find out.

Leasing is still an option for me however as it keeps those other credit lines open (i.e loan) in case I need one in the future and  I would rather keep that initial deposit in the bank and then I can sock it away for the balloon.

The van I really want is hard to find on a lease though or at least at a competitive price, I'm after the traffic sport double cab although I might have to settle for the vivaro sportive which is a bit lower specced.

Off to look at one this aft from a  Renault dealer, with Renault you get 4 years warranty as well which would be nice.

Stoots

  • Posts: 6213
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2018, 11:01:23 am »
I bought a transit custom second hand Adam.

63 plate, fully serviced from a main dealer. No finance, just saved for 3 years. Never looked back. No monthly payments. No returning the van.  Can sell it at anytime privately or chop it in if I ever fancy a new one. It took discipline to save, but I was driving a 06 transit connect before the custom so just decided to buy a van outright that will last 3 years and still be worth something after that.

I hate monthly payments. Hate them.

So for me I prefer to buy outright if I can. This means less stress if the weather is bad in winter/Xmas as I haven’t got to pay £££ for a van each month.

My advice, not necessarily right, is to save and buy one outright, then sell it in 2/3 years and pay a small amount for a slightly newer one.

It really is each to there own though. For me, I prefer Minimal monthly payments, and I prefer to have the van outright mine from day 1.

Yes I can understand that.

However I'd rather spend my cash on growing the business and increasing turnover/profit. That way any lease payment are being paid by the business if that makes sense.

I could save up 10-15k but by that time the business wouldn't have grown much and then I'd spend it all and it would be gone.

I would prefer the cashflow

Marc Stock

Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2018, 11:46:50 am »
Adam

I think youd be making a big mistake at this stage buying a van on a lease.

Why not give it a year or so 1st, stick to your plan and get the business to the 60k point first. And i dont mean, 60k on your customer list, i mean an actual 60k in cash throughout.

The reason being is that all manner of things could happen. We just had that awful weather to deal with, which was unprecedented agreed. But you have only had your employee for a month or two give the business time to settle into a good pattern before committing to a monthly lease payment.

Im not buying anything on lease. Ill be purchasing another 08 plate connect at the end of the year outright.

Marc Stock

Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2018, 01:01:46 pm »
Ooooohhhhhh.


John Mart

Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2018, 04:34:17 pm »
If you’ve got the work, buy new. You’ll get a warranty and less downtime. I think leasing is mad to be honest unless you can’t afford the vat deposit. In my comparisons the dealer was quite a bit cheaper for the two vehicles I was interested in because of the low interest. The brokers offer poor finance to start but did offer to match the dealer prices in the end but I wasn’t interested.

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2018, 05:26:06 pm »
Thanks

I'm off to look at some vans this afternoon
I know own which one I want now

If I can get HP finance I'll probably go that route, will just need to save up a deposit.

I don't need one just yet so


If you have a good credit rating then go for a personal loan, it will be a lot cheaper than HP and you wont need a deposit.
Plus as a cash buyer you will get a better deal on the van .




With vehicle purchases quite often cash is not king I got a far better deal by financing the vehicle I bought it worked out over 6k less on finance than if I bought it for cash , strange but true I always thought I would get a better deal paying outright for it but sometimes it’s more advantageous to use finance

֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1689
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2018, 05:43:01 pm »
Personally I would just buy a good, vat free van for about 5/6k. If you can't finance the purchase yourself then look for a good loan rate- usually, your own bank offers the worst rate!! You may get a far better rate from 7.5k upwards so take that into consideration too.
Comfortably Numb!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23988
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2018, 06:30:06 pm »
Adam

I think youd be making a big mistake at this stage buying a van on a lease.

Why not give it a year or so 1st, stick to your plan and get the business to the 60k point first. And i dont mean, 60k on your customer list, i mean an actual 60k in cash throughout.

The reason being is that all manner of things could happen. We just had that awful weather to deal with, which was unprecedented agreed. But you have only had your employee for a month or two give the business time to settle into a good pattern before committing to a monthly lease payment.

Im not buying anything on lease. Ill be purchasing another 08 plate connect at the end of the year outright.

what awful weather?4 consecutive days off because of snow this year(first time ive had more than one day off at a time since 2010).....

and as for lease payments...its £200 a month...i dont even notice it going out.....
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23988
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2018, 06:36:40 pm »
I bought a transit custom second hand Adam.

63 plate, fully serviced from a main dealer. No finance, just saved for 3 years. Never looked back. No monthly payments. No returning the van.  Can sell it at anytime privately or chop it in if I ever fancy a new one. It took discipline to save, but I was driving a 06 transit connect before the custom so just decided to buy a van outright that will last 3 years and still be worth something after that.

I hate monthly payments. Hate them.

So for me I prefer to buy outright if I can. This means less stress if the weather is bad in winter/Xmas as I haven’t got to pay £££ for a van each month.

My advice, not necessarily right, is to save and buy one outright, then sell it in 2/3 years and pay a small amount for a slightly newer one.

It really is each to there own though. For me, I prefer Minimal monthly payments, and I prefer to have the van outright mine from day 1.

Yes I can understand that.

However I'd rather spend my cash on growing the business and increasing turnover/profit. That way any lease payment are being paid by the business if that makes sense.

I could save up 10-15k but by that time the business wouldn't have grown much and then I'd spend it all and it would be gone.

I would prefer the cashflow

you wont even notice the £200 a month lease payments adam if your still increasing turnover month on month.....and when its time to pay the balloon payment in 5 years your business should be in  much more profitable shape....even then you dont have to pay the balloon payment if you dont want,you can sell it and pay it,hand it back or carry on paying £200 a month(well you can with my business finance lease agreement).....
price higher/work harder!

zesty

  • Posts: 2459
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2018, 09:18:01 pm »
Daz, there’s no right or wrong way, but for me living in Essex my monthly bills aren’t cheap, and adding on £250 or more for a transit custom every month is too much for me. I could afford it, but I’d much rather that £250 go on things I want rather than a van.

It’s all dependent on your lifestyle and earnings, I’m 29, enjoy a lot of hobbies and want the money I earn to go on the things I enjoy, for me adding £250 odd a month for van would just annoy me lol!

You can afford it daz coz you live up north, have soft water and aren’t supporting a family (or are you? I’m just guessing as you said your in a flat and the girlfriend visits every now and then)  8) ;D

Imagine having a TDS of 480 and paying a huge water bill, RO’s, resin etc, you don’t know your born daz  ;D

Stoots

  • Posts: 6213
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2018, 10:11:59 pm »
I suppose it depends on 2 things , if you can afford it and if you want it.

I don't really spend money on anything for myself, it's all bills and family stuff.

So for me to get a new van to use for business and personal use would be a reward for the work I've put it over the last couple of years.



dazmond

  • Posts: 23988
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2018, 12:53:48 pm »
Daz, there’s no right or wrong way, but for me living in Essex my monthly bills aren’t cheap, and adding on £250 or more for a transit custom every month is too much for me. I could afford it, but I’d much rather that £250 go on things I want rather than a van.

It’s all dependent on your lifestyle and earnings, I’m 29, enjoy a lot of hobbies and want the money I earn to go on the things I enjoy, for me adding £250 odd a month for van would just annoy me lol!

You can afford it daz coz you live up north, have soft water and aren’t supporting a family (or are you? I’m just guessing as you said your in a flat and the girlfriend visits every now and then)  8) ;D

Imagine having a TDS of 480 and paying a huge water bill, RO’s, resin etc, you don’t know your born daz  ;D

True....I'm DI only,no wife or kids,don't smoke,very rarely drink and my rent is £300 a month......my choice though....
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23988
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2018, 01:26:21 pm »
I suppose it depends on 2 things , if you can afford it and if you want it.

I don't really spend money on anything for myself, it's all bills and family stuff.

So for me to get a new van to use for business and personal use would be a reward for the work I've put it over the last couple of years.

With a new van you 've also got virtually no risk of downtime through breakdowns,Mots etc for a few years,3 yr warranty and it looks great for your  image esp with logo and signwriting. .all you need to do it fill up with diesel and top up your screen wash!happy days!!!
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23988
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2018, 01:31:05 pm »
How many times have we  spent money on old vans that have been battered about for years before we finally get them?(usually with the best part of 100,000 miles on the clock!).I have....loads of times....

It's nice to start with a fresh new van,service it regularly and look after it...then it should last a very long time.....
price higher/work harder!

Stoots

  • Posts: 6213
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2018, 04:14:02 pm »
Yes daz.

I'm sold on the idea of leasing.

Low monthly payments, no deposit and the option at the end to keep (you can't technically keep it but ways around it) or hand it back/sell it and get another new one. All the payments are tax deductabke and it would be really nice to have a spanking new van with next to no miles and air con, reverse sensors and all that other jazz.

I'm aware its a want not a need, but like you say we work hard (ish ;) ) why not.

I've never had a new van either.

֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1689
Re: Finance leasing -- Daz?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2018, 05:19:02 pm »
How many times have we  spent money on old vans that have been battered about for years before we finally get them?(usually with the best part of 100,000 miles on the clock!).I have....loads of times....

It's nice to start with a fresh new van,service it regularly and look after it...then it should last a very long time.....

It's not as black and white as that though Daz. Nobody is talking about an pld bangor with 100k on the clock. Plus a warranty direct policy is actually far better than the manufacturers one!! So, for a third of what you are paying, you could have as good a van with a better warranty! Both options are also fully tax deductable.
If you just fancy a new van then that's a different matter but from a purely business decsision then it's not so black or white. It's not about how much you earn, only how much of that YOU get to keep!!👍
Comfortably Numb!