[Splash & dash]

I work with cold pure water. I can use hot when I NEED to !
the majority of the people on this forum that use hot water day in day out seem to have the opinion that their way is best and that cold can not do the job . so this implies that the years they were without hot water not providing a first class service?

I don’t think that’s the case at all I was cold wfp for 10 years and did a very good job and had happy customers , I have been hot wfp for the last 4 years and still give the customers a first class job but hot is quicker dries faster and is far easier to work with especially in colder months , time saving on first cleans is huge as is plastic cleans and building  wash downs , those that have not used hot have no idear of the advantages they just talk without any experience it’s only when you use it day in day out that you notice a vast difference we use hot all year round at an aprox cost per week in diesel of £55-70 I can assure you I wouldn’t spend that if it wasn’t needed or didn’t make a difference, it payed for it’s self over and over again , salt, snail trails, bee pollen\poo , bird muck , algy, and general grime come off so much easier with less scrubbing less water less time taken , but I accept not everyone will want the extra expense or believe what I’ve said and that’s fine , but ask yourself why do ones spend thousands of pounds if it’s not needed or no good I would be the first saying save your money it’s a waist of time , I was very sceptical before having it but tried out a hot system for a couple of weeks and was amazed how much cleaner the frames were with the hot compared to the cold I was using and the customers noticed too , I wasn’t doing anything any different with my cleaning technique either , hot does do a better job quicker that’s not saying those that use cold are doing a poor job , it’s like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Fiesta both will get to the destination but one will be a lot quicker than the other

So what you are saying is you where slow and your quality wasnt the best when using cold, its training not hot water that
you need.
Plus how could you have been doing a first class job for 6 years using cold when the frames where much cleaner using hot to the point where your customers even noticed it ? lol.

No I don’t need training , the reason after using cold for years that I and customers noticed a different is beacause hot cleans better fact ! Try washing your dishes with cold then use hot it’s not rocket science but it is a scientific fact hot will clean better than cold , that’s not condemning people who use cold but you will get a better finished result especiLy on UPVC frames using hot the only way you might get similar results with cold is by using a chemical such as virosol or similar but it will take considerably more time effort and water

[dazmond]

I work with cold pure water. I can use hot when I NEED to !
the majority of the people on this forum that use hot water day in day out seem to have the opinion that their way is best and that cold can not do the job . so this implies that the years they were without hot water not providing a first class service?

no mate THATS YOUR INTERPRETATION of what YOU think hot water users opinion have......most of us dont care whether you use cold tap water for cleaning windows....its personal choice....after all its your window cleaning round....

strange as it may sound but money isnt the only factor in making a decision when investing in my business......im already making a healthy profit and i can afford a few luxuries....

if itll make my day  more comfortable and the work i have scheduled easier to clean then im not bothered about the extra cost esp if its a safe professional installed water heater thatll last for a long time(10 years+).im thinking longer term than the next year or so....i also wanted some frost protection without having to remember to put a heater in my van overnight etc...

as for some things (like electric reels)ive not bothered with as i dont find reeling in very hard esp with having a very good quality fixed reel in my van.....and some days im only reeling in 2 or 3 times all day....

also xtreme poles (25 ft and under) used as every day poles i dont find too robust TBH so i use SLX 25s for my main poles and  xtreme poles for anything higher than 30ft....

IMO most of the guys that are constantly whining about window cleaners like me spending £4.5k on a hot system are just plain jealous because they themselves cant afford one....if money was no object most would have one installed tomorrow......

[Splash & dash]

Once paid for its pittance per day to run a hot system the people disagreeing obviously haven’t had a hot system,not only does it produce better cleaning results on plastic frames as well as wooden it gives you the confidence it’s doing a better job and you need to spend far less time on the glass each window scrubbing the hot water litterally does the work for you.

Exactly, some will use additives some will use ppb filtering and some will use hot, if it gives you the confidence to go a little quicker and make a few quid more then it doesnt matter if it does anything real or not as it can still be money well spent, you do have to laugh at some of the silly claims you guys make though, lol.

How can you comment on something you don’t have or use you are simply repeating what you have hurd which is not based on science or real world use

[Dry Clean]

Once paid for its pittance per day to run a hot system the people disagreeing obviously haven’t had a hot system,not only does it produce better cleaning results on plastic frames as well as wooden it gives you the confidence it’s doing a better job and you need to spend far less time on the glass each window scrubbing the hot water litterally does the work for you.

Exactly, some will use additives some will use ppb filtering and some will use hot, if it gives you the confidence to go a little quicker and make a few quid more then it doesnt matter if it does anything real or not as it can still be money well spent, you do have to laugh at some of the silly claims you guys make though, lol.

How can you comment on something you don’t have or use you are simply repeating what you have hurd which is not based on science or real world use

I have a top of the range LPG on demand heater (designed to be installed in a campervan ) sitting in my garage next to my barely used Brodex alloy pole that I also used for a while until I caught myself on, as for science, it tells us that because of melting points hot water will clean/remove certain things better than cold water, fortunately for most shiners theres very little that we find on the glass and frames that needs to be melted to be removed.

[Dry Clean]

I work with cold pure water. I can use hot when I NEED to !
the majority of the people on this forum that use hot water day in day out seem to have the opinion that their way is best and that cold can not do the job . so this implies that the years they were without hot water not providing a first class service?

no mate THATS YOUR INTERPRETATION of what YOU think hot water users opinion have......most of us dont care whether you use cold tap water for cleaning windows....its personal choice....after all its your window cleaning round....

strange as it may sound but money isnt the only factor in making a decision when investing in my business......im already making a healthy profit and i can afford a few luxuries....

if itll make my day  more comfortable and the work i have scheduled easier to clean then im not bothered about the extra cost esp if its a safe professional installed water heater thatll last for a long time(10 years+).im thinking longer term than the next year or so....i also wanted some frost protection without having to remember to put a heater in my van overnight etc...

as for some things (like electric reels)ive not bothered with as i dont find reeling in very hard esp with having a very good quality fixed reel in my van.....and some days im only reeling in 2 or 3 times all day....

also xtreme poles (25 ft and under) used as every day poles i dont find too robust TBH so i use SLX 25s for my main poles and  xtreme poles for anything higher than 30ft....

IMO most of the guys that are constantly whining about window cleaners like me spending £4.5k on a hot system are just plain jealous because they themselves cant afford one....if money was no object most would have one installed tomorrow......

Nobody's whining we are just having a laugh at your expense, you paid £4.5k to get the same results that Nathan Kaye is getting
with a £30 immersion. lol.

[Marc Stock]

What shows a good business person is the ability to keep overheads as low as possible, whilst being able to extract a high profit from your customers, and deliver the best results possible.

Nothing wrong with using hot water, nothing wrong with using cold water. Spending £30 on a hot water system is a smarter business  decision vs paying 4k to do the same thing, no matter if you can afford to spend it or not.

I can imagine in a board meeting with sir alan sugar...

Sir Alan "You paid bloody 4k to heat some water??"

"Yes sir alan. We had the money to spend and it was state of the art"

Sir Alan :"The other team only spend £30...on a immersion heater...a wise use of budget. You blew 4k on yours to achieve exactly the same, is this amateur hour or what?? Who was responsible for this lack of foresight"

Well it was xxx sir, yes..." we wanted to impress you sir"

Sir Alan" oh yes i am impressed.....with the company that sold you a water heater for £4k.....maybe i should just fire the lot of you and recruit members from that company instead....you bunch of idiots...YOU ARE THE ONES SUPPOSED TO BE MAKING MONEY, not spending it..your fired.

Lol

 

[windowswashed]

I have a diesel hot water system but I rarely use it, think I paid 2k at the time. Yes it does clean better and quicker on first cleans  and for heavily soiled windows but I can't justify the daily running cost even using red diesel when warmish or even cold water is just as good. Bird poop comes off seconds slower with cold water and boars/hogs hair bristles using cold water instead of stiff nylon bristles using hot water so they're very similar. Stubborn marks come off just as easy with a gooseneck scraper or pad which takes seconds to use. Prefer to save the diesel running costs and buy things not associated with work for personal taste.
Why waste that money cleaning windows where the only noticeable difference would be if the customer comes home early and discovers their windows are already dry, rather have that money in my bank account or put to better use.  Rather put that money towards an electric reel with hose reel guides that would save considerable time and physical effort thus allowing more earning potential and security knowing van is locked whilst working on properties.

[dazmond]

I work with cold pure water. I can use hot when I NEED to !
the majority of the people on this forum that use hot water day in day out seem to have the opinion that their way is best and that cold can not do the job . so this implies that the years they were without hot water not providing a first class service?

no mate THATS YOUR INTERPRETATION of what YOU think hot water users opinion have......most of us dont care whether you use cold tap water for cleaning windows....its personal choice....after all its your window cleaning round....

strange as it may sound but money isnt the only factor in making a decision when investing in my business......im already making a healthy profit and i can afford a few luxuries....

if itll make my day  more comfortable and the work i have scheduled easier to clean then im not bothered about the extra cost esp if its a safe professional installed water heater thatll last for a long time(10 years+).im thinking longer term than the next year or so....i also wanted some frost protection without having to remember to put a heater in my van overnight etc...

as for some things (like electric reels)ive not bothered with as i dont find reeling in very hard esp with having a very good quality fixed reel in my van.....and some days im only reeling in 2 or 3 times all day....

also xtreme poles (25 ft and under) used as every day poles i dont find too robust TBH so i use SLX 25s for my main poles and  xtreme poles for anything higher than 30ft....

IMO most of the guys that are constantly whining about window cleaners like me spending £4.5k on a hot system are just plain jealous because they themselves cant afford one....if money was no object most would have one installed tomorrow......

Nobody's whining we are just having a laugh at your expense, you paid £4.5k to get the same results that Nathan Kaye is getting
with a £30 immersion. lol.

An immersion is nothing like a professional installed diesel heater mate...also I earn a lot more money than you a year sean so I'm still quids in after heater expenses etc....

[dazmond]

What shows a good business person is the ability to keep overheads as low as possible, whilst being able to extract a high profit from your customers, and deliver the best results possible.

Nothing wrong with using hot water, nothing wrong with using cold water. Spending £30 on a hot water system is a smarter business  decision vs paying 4k to do the same thing, no matter if you can afford to spend it or not.

I can imagine in a board meeting with sir alan sugar...

Sir Alan "You paid bloody 4k to heat some water??"

"Yes sir alan. We had the money to spend and it was state of the art"

Sir Alan :"The other team only spend £30...on a immersion heater...a wise use of budget. You blew 4k on yours to achieve exactly the same, is this amateur hour or what?? Who was responsible for this lack of foresight"

Well it was xxx sir, yes..." we wanted to impress you sir"

Sir Alan" oh yes i am impressed.....with the company that sold you a water heater for £4k.....maybe i should just fire the lot of you and recruit members from that company instead....you bunch of idiots...YOU ARE THE ONES SUPPOSED TO BE MAKING MONEY, not spending it..your fired.

Lol

Don't give us the Alan sugar crap marc........

I've struggled along in this business for years and years.i no longer struggle and want decent equipment so I buy it!It's good for motivation/image as well as an easier working day...

[Marc Stock]

So Daz, i suppose the 4k on a decent heater setup is a good way to reduce your tax bill then, because by my estimations your looking at a liability of around 15 to 20 grand when you take payments on account into play with the sort of earnings you claim.

Say you earned 50k in self employment income, that's around 13k gone to the coffers. Not only is it simply not worth doing all that work for 36k after tax, you are looking at having to find 13k for your self assessment return, plus 6k for your 1st payment on account so thats around 20 grand your going to have to find on your personal tax liability.

I just dont get how its worth doing that kind of money as a self employed person so if you are, then splashing out on fancy pansy go faster striped water heaters will reduce what tax you have too pay at least, in addition to the new van etc. I still just dont get it though tbh

No offence 

[Dry Clean]

I work with cold pure water. I can use hot when I NEED to !
the majority of the people on this forum that use hot water day in day out seem to have the opinion that their way is best and that cold can not do the job . so this implies that the years they were without hot water not providing a first class service?

no mate THATS YOUR INTERPRETATION of what YOU think hot water users opinion have......most of us dont care whether you use cold tap water for cleaning windows....its personal choice....after all its your window cleaning round....

strange as it may sound but money isnt the only factor in making a decision when investing in my business......im already making a healthy profit and i can afford a few luxuries....

if itll make my day  more comfortable and the work i have scheduled easier to clean then im not bothered about the extra cost esp if its a safe professional installed water heater thatll last for a long time(10 years+).im thinking longer term than the next year or so....i also wanted some frost protection without having to remember to put a heater in my van overnight etc...

as for some things (like electric reels)ive not bothered with as i dont find reeling in very hard esp with having a very good quality fixed reel in my van.....and some days im only reeling in 2 or 3 times all day....

also xtreme poles (25 ft and under) used as every day poles i dont find too robust TBH so i use SLX 25s for my main poles and  xtreme poles for anything higher than 30ft....

IMO most of the guys that are constantly whining about window cleaners like me spending £4.5k on a hot system are just plain jealous because they themselves cant afford one....if money was no object most would have one installed tomorrow......

Nobody's whining we are just having a laugh at your expense, you paid £4.5k to get the same results that Nathan Kaye is getting
with a £30 immersion. lol.

An immersion is nothing like a professional installed diesel heater mate...also I earn a lot more money than you a year sean so I'm still quids in after heater expenses etc....

It does the same thing as your professional installed heater which is supply hot water, your earnings remark was childish and funny. lol.

[Dry Clean]

What shows a good business person is the ability to keep overheads as low as possible, whilst being able to extract a high profit from your customers, and deliver the best results possible.

Nothing wrong with using hot water, nothing wrong with using cold water. Spending £30 on a hot water system is a smarter business  decision vs paying 4k to do the same thing, no matter if you can afford to spend it or not.

I can imagine in a board meeting with sir alan sugar...

Sir Alan "You paid bloody 4k to heat some water??"

"Yes sir alan. We had the money to spend and it was state of the art"

Sir Alan :"The other team only spend £30...on a immersion heater...a wise use of budget. You blew 4k on yours to achieve exactly the same, is this amateur hour or what?? Who was responsible for this lack of foresight"

Well it was xxx sir, yes..." we wanted to impress you sir"

Sir Alan" oh yes i am impressed.....with the company that sold you a water heater for £4k.....maybe i should just fire the lot of you and recruit members from that company instead....you bunch of idiots...YOU ARE THE ONES SUPPOSED TO BE MAKING MONEY, not spending it..your fired.

Lol

Don't give us the Alan sugar crap marc........

I've struggled along in this business for years and years.i no longer struggle and want decent equipment so I buy it!It's good for motivation/image as well as an easier working day...

What your actually saying is you now have a few quid in your pocket and haven't a clue on what to do with it, understandable.

[Dry Clean]

Somebody on here (cant remember who ) came out with a very good post a while back which read, some people treat window
cleaning as a hobby, couldn't agree more.

[Marc Stock]

Yeah that's right..

Look at the end of the day if fancy go faster stripped water heaters are your thing, and you need to spend some money on the business to get your personal tax liability down, then spending 4.5k on a heater is a good way to do it. But it begs the question, why even bother doing that extra work to pay for a heater like that in the 1st place.

If you have 4.5k available to plough back into the business, get another van and a lad in it to grow the buisiness. Do that a couple of times and trust me, a fancy pansy water heater will no longer be on your radar..you will want better things.

As a businessman it make zero sense to me to do anything else otherwise, its just being a busy fool really, in my opinion.

Keep your costs low.

Keep your profits high.

And keep growing.

[dazmond]

Yeah that's right..

Look at the end of the day if fancy go faster stripped water heaters are your thing, and you need to spend some money on the business to get your personal tax liability down, then spending 4.5k on a heater is a good way to do it. But it begs the question, why even bother doing that extra work to pay for a heater like that in the 1st place.

If you have 4.5k available to plough back into the business, get another van and a lad in it to grow the buisiness. Do that a couple of times and trust me, a fancy pansy water heater will no longer be on your radar..you will want better things.

As a businessman it make zero sense to me to do anything else otherwise, its just being a busy fool really, in my opinion.

Keep your costs low.

Keep your profits high.

And keep growing.

I wouldn't want to be driving about in an old scruffy,untidy van that's too small for WFP(IMO)like yours......

Each to their own......

[Stoots]

Yeah that's right..

Look at the end of the day if fancy go faster stripped water heaters are your thing, and you need to spend some money on the business to get your personal tax liability down, then spending 4.5k on a heater is a good way to do it. But it begs the question, why even bother doing that extra work to pay for a heater like that in the 1st place.

If you have 4.5k available to plough back into the business, get another van and a lad in it to grow the buisiness. Do that a couple of times and trust me, a fancy pansy water heater will no longer be on your radar..you will want better things.

As a businessman it make zero sense to me to do anything else otherwise, its just being a busy fool really, in my opinion.

Keep your costs low.

Keep your profits high.

And keep growing.

I think you are right marc

But also i can see it from the point of view of a sole trader who doesnt want to grow.

This job soon gets boring and buying a new van, brush, pole, heater etc keeps it interesting, which is why these guys do it.

which is fair enough.

[P @ F]

^^^ Thats me Adam , I dont want any more work as a sole trader , I also get bored but dont want to spend big money on the fancy bits , I would much rather make it or as close to it as possible for much less money , that stops me getting bored itself .

[Stoots]

^^^ Thats me Adam , I dont want any more work as a sole trader , I also get bored but dont want to spend big money on the fancy bits , I would much rather make it or as close to it as possible for much less money , that stops me getting bored itself .

Yes there's two types of "bored" sole trader.

1. The fiddler

Makes everything himself, is constantly faffing about. Has lots of good ideas, some not so good but it keeps him happy and doesn't cost him much. Usually makes a lot of videos.

Prime example - Nathan Kaye

2. The spender

Wants the best, a lot of it for no other reason than a few creature comforts and not much of a d.i.y er.  Gives him something to do looking for the next purchase and justifies it by having low outgoings and little other commitments.

Prime example - Daz

[nathankaye]

^^^ Thats me Adam , I dont want any more work as a sole trader , I also get bored but dont want to spend big money on the fancy bits , I would much rather make it or as close to it as possible for much less money , that stops me getting bored itself .

Yes there's two types of "bored" sole trader.

1. The fiddler

Makes everything himself, is constantly faffing about. Has lots of good ideas, some not so good but it keeps him happy and doesn't cost him much. Usually makes a lot of videos.

Prime example - Nathan Kaye

2. The spender

Wants the best, a lot of it for no other reason than a few creature comforts and not much of a d.i.y er.  Gives him something to do looking for the next purchase and justifies it by having low outgoings and little other commitments.

Prime example - Daz

Lol, you could be right.
After cleaning windows for some years it does get a little tedious. Thats what i love about wfp, I think I upgraded at the right time for me as it bought a new lease of life to it. Now going into the third year its even better and ive always tinkered with things to get the best from it and so i can combine this with my work.
Im not interested with the stress of emoloying, did that when I was trad and I can do without added stress at the moment with other stuff I have going on.
But cleaning windows in comfort n ease is great and why not share some ideas in the process. Albeit theres hundreds if youtube vids on the subject

[Splash & dash]

If it were only sole traders buying these  very expensive and unnessasary heaters manufacturers wouldn’t produce them as it would be a very small market and not cost effective, Grippatank, Varitech , pure freedom and all the other firms fitting them do it to make money , and yes they make lots selling them , I think in a few years time hot systems will be the norm , air conditioning in cars used to be an expensive option now it’s generaly standard figment in Evan base models hot systems will be the same , ionics openly say that the vast majority of systems they sell are hot and they supply some very large window cleaning company’s with systems all over the world , weather you like or hate ionics it cannot be denied that they are market leaders when it comes to system sales , it’s up to us as window cleaners weather we buy them or not but sales figures are a proven fact that more and more are going down that route