[P @ F]

One or both might be shot , Shurflo 100psi and Stramline blue face digi (Spring)

Small amount of ice in pump elbow yesterday , pump pressured up and then all shut down and failed to run , got pump running again with no flow control but elbows then leaked !
Got a dodgey flow control off my bro and that is doing the same , sacked the day off to investigate , ripped it all out and tested again and the original flow control worked again .
Only now it hits DE and pulses , then PS activates and it all shuts down .

Its not cal and i have changed the PS so its not that either

Any thoughts before i drive to Gardiners and part with the best part of 200 notes 

[Den68]

Would it DE ifthe hose still frozen just a thought.

[Missing Link]

Wire the pump directly to the battery and see if it works.

If it does, you know the pump is fine and it's the flow controller.

[NWH]

Try pouring a kettle of boiling water over the pump odds on its frozen solid.

[P @ F]

The system was frost free , it was just the pump elbow .
The DE isnt the issue really , its the fact that it all shuts down once the pressure has built up to activate the PS .

I am getting the same with both flow controls , im not sure if the Ebay job is just pants or maybe the Spring one has just been overloaded and damaged by the pump freezing a bit yesterday .

I have a spare old pump in the shed but the bearing is rough and may not give me the answer !
Both the pump and controller are over 8 year old and could do with upgrade anyway , but i wasnt banking on them going down together and forcing my hand to buy both ! 

[P @ F]

Wire the pump directly to the battery and see if it works.

If it does, you know the pump is fine and it's the flow controller.

I have done that already and it runs fine , but when conected to controller as soon as it hits PS everything shuts down .
Even with the cheapie controller it does the same , thats why i cant tell which has gone !

[P @ F]

Try pouring a kettle of boiling water over the pump odds on its frozen solid.

No need full system is frost free , it was only a tiny bit of ice in the elbow of the pump yesterday that caused this whole issue , unless of course more ice was inside that damaged it internaly ?

[P @ F]

Im going out to run the system up and see if it does the same now ?

[Ian Lancaster]

Before you spend a fortune on a controller, try one of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pulse-Width-Modulation-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-Switch-12V-40V-10A-13khz/231977643758?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D49926%26meid%3D6aa5848cf61047d383636fe62a27ef2b%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D131175274703%26itm%3D231977643758&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850

We use them - last 2-3 years - at that price you can afford to buy in a dozen or so, keep you going forever

[Shrek]

I had DE last week on a cold morning- water was dribbling out of the brush head and pump was pulsing and then DE , I disconnected the hose from the pump to reel and it was flowing freely. So I cut off the connectors at the end of the hose reel and it was jam packed with ice even though I brought everything inside at night.
Would’ve been easier for me to pour hot water over everything and melt all ice inside the hose and connectors. I know now for next time though 

[P @ F]

Thanks Ian , this is what i got off my brother , i have just wired it all up and it seems to be working now , but last night it did the same as the Spring controller and shut everything down ,
Could it have been a temperature thing i wonder

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-12V-24V-48V-40A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller-2000W-MAX-9-50V/263117804952?hash=item3d430b1598:g:FFYAAOSwjVVVvEFb

Im going to wire the spring up again to see what happens !

[P @ F]

I had DE last week on a cold morning- water was dribbling out of the brush head and pump was pulsing and then DE , I disconnected the hose from the pump to reel and it was flowing freely. So I cut off the connectors at the end of the hose reel and it was jam packed with ice even though I brought everything inside at night.
Would’ve been easier for me to pour hot water over everything and melt all ice inside the hose and connectors. I know now for next time though 

Yes i have had that too !
Last night i was running the system hot so i know there was no ice , flow was great , it was just every time the PS activated the controllers were shutting it all down , and then when switched on the flow had jumped from 85 to 96 every time

[Splash & dash]

Sounds like it might need re calibrating as the water is thicker due to the cold it will be more sensitive to de, if the water is warmer will probably work ok I have had similar with mine

[Ian Sheppard]

I had DE last week on a cold morning- water was dribbling out of the brush head and pump was pulsing and then DE , I disconnected the hose from the pump to reel and it was flowing freely. So I cut off the connectors at the end of the hose reel and it was jam packed with ice even though I brought everything inside at night.
Would’ve been easier for me to pour hot water over everything and melt all ice inside the hose and connectors. I know now for next time though 

Yes i have had that too !
Last night i was running the system hot so i know there was no ice , flow was great , it was just every time the PS activated the controllers were shutting it all down , and then when switched on the flow had jumped from 85 to 96 every time

Any ice in the hose line reel or pump head is going to restrict flow and create high pressure. As both controllers behave the same way either ice some where or other restriction is a possibility.

In the event of restricted water flow and depending on flow rate I would expect the controller to show DE in the event of ice or partial restriction. The pump will attempt to worker hared drawing more current and increase pressure, this would trigger DE

If the restriction is blocking the hose/pump head completely then i would expect that pressure would build quickly and teh pump PS will activate, the controller will then display the PS message to show the pump pressure switch has opened under high pressure .

This began with a frozen elbow joint so there is likely nothing wrong with either the pump or controllers. The likely cause is a blockage/Ice elsewhere in the system   

[Ian Sheppard]

The near freezing temperatures have a big impact on the hose lines. The hose wall are much stiffer and have very little expansion. This means as the flow rates are increased the hose can not expand as well as it would in warmer temperatures.
The Hose becomes a restriction Running a high flow rate 85 - 96 into the cold hose is creating lots of back pressure with the pump effectively working against it self.

This will also cause high pressure in the system and the pump PS will activate under high pressure with the controller correctly reporting what it sees. My suggestion is to reduce the flow rates to account for the stiffer hose . Running warm water through the hose will make it more supple, but with ground temperatures close to and below freezing the hose will be effected.

As my previous post the pump and controllers both appear to be working as they should, The issue began with the frozen joint.

As for high temperature impacting the pump most of the well known brands will operate up to 65C although in mormal operation they will not get that hot.

The lower cost pumps with low cost components will likely get hotter and this could impact on the efficiency of the pump motor. In particular as the motor brush heats up it can distort meaning that there is no longer a connection to the commuter heads. No connection means no current and the controller will display PS correctly

[Don Kee]

I see Ian is on, and there isn’t anyone more knowledgable on this sort of stuff but just check you’ve got a clean earth/negative connection from pump to controller and again to battery...

It might sound daft, but I’m sure I’ve had similar in the past and it was a corroded wire connector; no idea why the controller show’d PS but it worked!

[P @ F]

Well been out in the snow today doing various tests , and results were different again , all was working well and it was colder than yesterday .
I ran the system cold with both controllers and they didnt shut down today , very strange !

I then chucked the rectus on the floor for a couple of mins and reconnected , it was stiff and the pump and controller shut down again , when turned back on the flow had hopped from 85 to 96 again , it did clear and run as normal straight away .

But i am thinking that age is more the issue with both items , i think i have spoken to Ian before about auto cal and it was found that i have an earlier model without the auto , its 8 year old so has done me well , im looking to get the V11 liquid logic next .

As for the pump thats over 8 year old now , and on cold mornings it does squeal now and again on first start up , i think that the impregnated bronze/brass bearing is a tad dry !
So its a strip out and oil soak or maybe a streamline 100 psi , yet to decide .

[Ian Sheppard]

Well been out in the snow today doing various tests , and results were different again , all was working well and it was colder than yesterday .
I ran the system cold with both controllers and they didnt shut down today , very strange !

I then chucked the rectus on the floor for a couple of mins and reconnected , it was stiff and the pump and controller shut down again , when turned back on the flow had hopped from 85 to 96 again , it did clear and run as normal straight away .

But i am thinking that age is more the issue with both items , i think i have spoken to Ian before about auto cal and it was found that i have an earlier model without the auto , its 8 year old so has done me well , im looking to get the V11 liquid logic next .

As for the pump thats over 8 year old now , and on cold mornings it does squeal now and again on first start up , i think that the impregnated bronze/brass bearing is a tad dry !
So its a strip out and oil soak or maybe a streamline 100 psi , yet to decide .

From Memory these are V6 controllers which we have not made for a good while.  8 years old and still going is great. The electronic components became less efficient over time and do not handle the heating/cooling cycle so well. Low temperatures may be playing a part here too. But 8 years working is impressive. 

[Splash & dash]

Well been out in the snow today doing various tests , and results were different again , all was working well and it was colder than yesterday .
I ran the system cold with both controllers and they didnt shut down today , very strange !

I then chucked the rectus on the floor for a couple of mins and reconnected , it was stiff and the pump and controller shut down again , when turned back on the flow had hopped from 85 to 96 again , it did clear and run as normal straight away .

But i am thinking that age is more the issue with both items , i think i have spoken to Ian before about auto cal and it was found that i have an earlier model without the auto , its 8 year old so has done me well , im looking to get the V11 liquid logic next .

As for the pump thats over 8 year old now , and on cold mornings it does squeal now and again on first start up , i think that the impregnated bronze/brass bearing is a tad dry !
So its a strip out and oil soak or maybe a streamline 100 psi , yet to decide .

From Memory these are V6 controllers which we have not made for a good while.  8 years old and still going is great. The electronic components became less efficient over time and do not handle the heating/cooling cycle so well. Low temperatures may be playing a part here too. But 8 years working is impressive.

Hi Ian so what is the expected life span of the latest digital controllers ? In my second van I have a 14 year old ionics system with two analog controllers and it’s still working fine no problem at all , in my new van now 3.5 years old I have digital Grippatank ones that I think come from you ? What would be the sights that they are starting to fail . . ? As Ime a great believer in preventative maintenance my ones are for the hot system any advice would be greatly appreciated thanks

[P @ F]

Thanks Ian , thats great , i cant complain at all as its earnt its dollar over those 8 years !

I am wondering about the pump too though , it has never even had a new PS , well it did get changed the other day to see if that was the issue , but the one that went in was the same if not older .
My question is though , will a pump behave differently over time , like the controller or is it a case of working or not ?

Im just trying to work out which to replace first , the pump seems the more important one to have running as like i said its done its time and i dont want it to totally let me down on the road .
The controller has only been problematic since this cold spell , and could well go for a few more years yet .

What are your thoughts ? TIA