[britishwill]

We turnover approx £165k a year. (We are very lucky over the years I have just kept the creme work so all well priced and we live near London)
30k for Senior Window Cleaner.
20k for Junior Window Cleaner
approx 25k in VAT (taking out the reclaimed bit)
55k for me
9k for wife to do the accounts etc
Van Lease  £5k
Fuel £2k
Equipment 2k inc water
Google £1k

The problem is staff always seem to leave after approx 2 years and trying to find a good person/s to replace is very difficult.
I am trying to work out if I am being a 'busy fool' working all the hours and whether I would be better off selling half the round (money in the bank) so I am not VAT registered and then run the business just under the threshold work a 4 day week but with no staff and all those issues.

Has anyone gone back wards to a more work/life balance and regretted it or did you find it was for the best?

I love cleaning windows so do not want to sell up completely.

Thanks in advance for your replies

[p1w1]

Only you can really answer it as i suppose it really depends on your personal financial situation. However if your happy to take a cut in earnings, i dont think i would sell but probably look into franchising that way you still keep the work but loose a lot of the hassle of employing and if worked correctly then probably get rid of the VAT as well. See how that goes for a couple of years while earning a lower wage and if you dont like it you can go back to how you was before, or still have the option of selling.
If you just sell it now and then regret it, its then to late as the work is gone.
At least with franchising you can learn to live with the lower wage (if thats the case) and a newer lifestyle but still have all your round incase you change your mind and in the meantime you make some money from your franchisee for doing very little.

Money in the bank at the moment is a bit pointless with interest rates as they are, you would make more from franchising or find something to invest it in that gives you small income first.

[Marc Stock]

Do you have a career path set out for your employees?

If they seem to be going after two years, have you asked your staff why?

If i was working as a window cleaner, employed i would want some form of progression or promotion.

How about taking your senior window cleaner and promoting him to rounds manager, make him responsible for growing the business and target him on commission so you can have another junior role.

I sold work on two occasions, the 1st occasion i regretted it. 2nd occasion was more of a one step backwards two forwards, as the round was just too far away to be profitable anymore due to traffic.

 

[Lee Pryor]

You should push through, grow the business, pay the cleaners a bit more and retain them. If you got a worker whos current job is 18k a year and paid him 32k he would never leave. How could he? he wont find another job that well paid. Thats what I do and we retain people very very well.  If all you have is people leaving every 2 years well thats running a business.

[P @ F]

From where i am sitting , and i am no biz runner , tried and failed 
But , i did a few basic sums and without knowing hours and days worked , i worked out that the chief windie would be on about £500 take home a week , sure that is ok really for a go home and forget to the moro job , but it does depend on what they have to do to get that £500 a week , and lets not forget that you are near London , how far does 500 go up there ?

[Marc Stock]

500 a week isnt enough down here.

Its a struggle even on £700 a week tbh.

To be comfortable you need at least £750 a week and thats paying bills comfortable, not having fun comfortable.

Our council tax has just hit £200 a month. If your renting a 3 bed semi kiss goodbye to the best part of 2k a month.

[Stoots]

500 a week isnt enough down here.

Its a struggle even on £700 a week tbh.

To be comfortable you need at least £750 a week and thats paying bills comfortable, not having fun comfortable.

Our council tax has just hit £200 a month. If your renting a 3 bed semi kiss goodbye to the best part of 2k a month.

Very interesting.

I'd say 500 take home a week is a nice wage where I am

Rents are typically 600 -700 for a 3 bed semi. Council tax around 100-120 a month.

But that's why you charge over 20 quid a house and I'm more like 12 quid.

[dazmond]

We turnover approx £165k a year. (We are very lucky over the years I have just kept the creme work so all well priced and we live near London)
30k for Senior Window Cleaner.
20k for Junior Window Cleaner
approx 25k in VAT (taking out the reclaimed bit)
55k for me
9k for wife to do the accounts etc
Van Lease  £5k
Fuel £2k
Equipment 2k inc water
Google £1k

The problem is staff always seem to leave after approx 2 years and trying to find a good person/s to replace is very difficult.
I am trying to work out if I am being a 'busy fool' working all the hours and whether I would be better off selling half the round (money in the bank) so I am not VAT registered and then run the business just under the threshold work a 4 day week but with no staff and all those issues.

Has anyone gone back wards to a more work/life balance and regretted it or did you find it was for the best?

I love cleaning windows so do not want to sell up completely.

Thanks in advance for your replies

Surely if you kept 4 days a week of your best work,sold a good chunk you d have an easier,less stressful life and a good wad of money in the bank.i bet you d not be far off 55k take home either if your work is very high priced....

At the end of the day it's your choice....you 've managed to build up a mega round that most of us will never have....but look at all the VAT and wages your forking out for every year.nearly 85k a year!I'd hate that level of responsibility .....never mind all the work you have to plough through between the 3 of you.....it sounds like your working very hard for that 55k....

[dazmond]

500 a week isnt enough down here.

Its a struggle even on £700 a week tbh.

To be comfortable you need at least £750 a week and thats paying bills comfortable, not having fun comfortable.

Our council tax has just hit £200 a month. If your renting a 3 bed semi kiss goodbye to the best part of 2k a month.

Very interesting.

I'd say 500 take home a week is a nice wage where I am

Rents are typically 600 -700 for a 3 bed semi. Council tax around 100-120 a month.

But that's why you charge over 20 quid a house and I'm more like 12 quid.

Same here Adam.......the trick is to live in the cheaper areas but work in the affluent areas where u can charge higher prices if possible...(don't work on your doorstep)....

[Dane]

If you don’t mind me asking. What areas are you from dazmond & Adam?  I’m in york but just gaging how prices change in areas. Thanks

[dazmond]

I live in Salford but work mainly in affluent parts of Cheshire....cheaper living costs but higher earnings....I think i need to maximise earnings more when a sole trader...

[nathankaye]

I've not read everyone's posts and I certainly don't wish to employ but...
The choice is yours and you know you business.
A friend of mine was getting ill and stressed over his business and ill say the same here.
If this is the way you want to go, then do so.  After paying the workers and running costs etc you know your own earnings.   The question is, can you earn the same by working on your own, as obviously all the other work you have is to pay wages and extra costs. So technically you should be able to earn the same money without the added stress. Whilst making a healthy return by selling the rest as an established business to someone or a possible franchise or rent

[Delta]

Pay yourself and the Mrs just under £85k a year and franchise the rest of the work and take 20% of that.

[Stoots]

If you don’t mind me asking. What areas are you from dazmond & Adam?  I’m in york but just gaging how prices change in areas. Thanks

I'm in Wakefield.

Certain parts of York are very affluent in comparison

[Stoots]

It certainly seems to me renting work or going the franchise route is a better option once going over vat.

It seems you really have to turnover a few hundred k as an employer to earn a vast amount more than working solo.

My personal plan is to get to the vat limit then start refining work to reduce staffing costs.

But then the vat limit is probably going to be looked at in the next few years and by the time I get there it will probably drop and pee on my parade.

[Dane]

Yeah I agree dazmond, maximise where you can when on your own..

Ah not too far away then Adam, my dad lives in Rothwell and I was brought up in Garforth. Yes york has some affluent areas and It’s relatively all relatively close to the less affluent parts (where I live  😔)

[Stoots]

Yeah I agree dazmond, maximise where you can when on your own..

Ah not too far away then Adam, my dad lives in Rothwell and I was brought up in Garforth. Yes york has some affluent areas and It’s relatively all relatively close to the less affluent parts (where I live  😔)

Oh ok. I'm from rothwell,  lived there for 20 years.

I work In rothwell, garforth, kippax.

[britishwill]

Thanks gents!

All really constructive comments and thoughts. Had a long walk with the missus and think I am going to try and employ decent younger people who hopefully will stay for longer. The staff of a certain aged 25-30 just see the 'dollars' and think they can do this themselves. Luckily I have always had great staff and the reality is whatever I offer them money wise they think the grass is greener.
20 heads opinions are better than one thanks again!

[Anthony Jardine]

I’ve been thinking what you’ve said as it seems like a solid basis for moving forward  a place many would like to be at and also many wouldn’t
I’ve gleaned some thoughts from those running lager business and you may already do this I’ve tried and does makes life easier

Some thoughts I’ve implemnated are Go cardless no invoices left with clients, all emailed at end day, why- as staff don’t see the prices they don’t think grass is greener, but pay well they have a work sheet, all customers are encouraged to not attempt payment on day by cheques Cash NOT accepted as we prefer this NOT kept in unlocked vans

Also question what proportion of the work do you personally clean?

Given that your doing all other aspects as well, no wonder your working all hours

I would try to push forward to the point where you earnings are the same now, but not cleaning windows, just running behind the scene, keeping  vans , equipment,  round organising as your priority and targeting more customer base

Also that’s a lager proportion of VAT are you standard rate or flat rate as flat rate may safe you 5-6 k a year as flat rate is up to 220k I may be wrong

But only you know what your happy with, for me I’m getting older and I don’t want to be cleaning myself by end this year just managing things even for slightly less it would be good to give the body a beak down the pyhisical aspect of our work 

Hope it works out for you and your happy with your decision

[Marc Stock]

Good post