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andyM

  • Posts: 6100
12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« on: February 11, 2018, 04:33:31 pm »
Does anyone use one of these to charge their Leisure Battery for wfp?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx52od8w3iw

Looks a lot better and more efficient than a standard type split charge relay system.
One of the Plebs

dazmond

  • Posts: 23988
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 11:05:55 pm »
its not exactly the same as that charger but its a battery to battery charger that grippa fitted in my van wired up to two 105ah numax leisure batteries.they keep my batteries topped up when out and about but i still bench charge every night due to heavy battery drain(diesel heater) and very little mileage...
price higher/work harder!

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 06:51:17 am »
I use a 115 ah leisure battery, which gets bench charged 2-3 times per week.
I've moved house recently and I'm having to bring the battery indoors to charge which is a bit of a ballache.
At the moment I'm contemplating getting an outside 240 volt socket fitted so that I can run an extension lead to the van parked on the outside driveway and charge the battery in the van.
I never really considered a split charge relay as I don't do a lot of mileage, but a Battery to Battery Charger as I linked to earlier would be a viable alternative and looks very convenient.
It's not cheap though (as far as chargers go) and would cost me in the region of £2-300 I reckon, but I am considering it.
I just wondered if anyone on here was using one or something very similar?

Can you give a link to the charger you have from Grippa please Daz?
One of the Plebs

dazmond

  • Posts: 23988
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 08:17:11 am »
sorry mate i dont know how to put up a link...if i were you id phone grippatank up.they are very helpful and have excellent customer service...they have the b to b chargers for sale on their website....theyll be able to advise you if its suitable for your needs...
price higher/work harder!

andyM

  • Posts: 6100

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 09:12:19 am »
I use a 115 ah leisure battery, which gets bench charged 2-3 times per week.
I've moved house recently and I'm having to bring the battery indoors to charge which is a bit of a ballache.
At the moment I'm contemplating getting an outside 240 volt socket fitted so that I can run an extension lead to the van parked on the outside driveway and charge the battery in the van.
I never really considered a split charge relay as I don't do a lot of mileage, but a Battery to Battery Charger as I linked to earlier would be a viable alternative and looks very convenient.
It's not cheap though (as far as chargers go) and would cost me in the region of £2-300 I reckon, but I am considering it.
I just wondered if anyone on here was using one or something very similar?

Can you give a link to the charger you have from Grippa please Daz?

I think Sterling products are top rate, but I also think that George is taking this experiment to the limit. It will probably apply more to caravaners as the 7 pin trailer couplings are always an issue for making good contact joins. So a lot of his issues would have been at the trailer coupling pin.

I use a 140 amp split charge relay with 70 amp cabling. Previously I used 20 amp cabling using a 10 amp split charge relay. Using the same gauge I found very little increase in charging rate between both systems. It certainly didn't solve my recharging issues. I still have to 'bench' charge my leisure battery as we to do very little mileage.

I had thought of buying one of these for the new van and trying it, but Numax once told me that charging a leisure battery at 10% of its capacity (110 amp leisure = 11 amps) is the ideal. However, George is charging his caravans battery at 28 amps. (I couldn't make out what battery George is using. Someone asked but there was no response. I'm sure he did say it was a 110amp but I don't recall him saying if it was a starter or leisure battery. I did look on the internet for the battery make, but still not exactly sure. The one listed that I saw was a dual purpose battery - starter and leisure.)
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 09:20:43 am »
I have to say these dual purpose batteries are great , it has not been on the bench for a month now  ;D
Dumb alternators with solar are the way to go  ;) 
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 09:41:03 am »
I have to say these dual purpose batteries are great , it has not been on the bench for a month now  ;D
Dumb alternators with solar are the way to go  ;)

Last couple of days for me have been great with solar.
Today's a good day as well. Currently sat in a cafe having a coffee whilst parked in the sun. My leisure batteries are fully charged (13) and so I'm topping up my little 27ah battery for the reel.
facebook.com/1NKServices
1NKServices.co.uk

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 10:04:38 am »
I have to say these dual purpose batteries are great , it has not been on the bench for a month now  ;D
Dumb alternators with solar are the way to go  ;)

Last couple of days for me have been great with solar.
Today's a good day as well. Currently sat in a cafe having a coffee whilst parked in the sun. My leisure batteries are fully charged (13) and so I'm topping up my little 27ah battery for the reel.
On Friday i pulled in 11 amp from the panels alone , i only had 10 go out !
Looking to beat my 51 watt / 130Wh record today  8)
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

dazmond

  • Posts: 23988
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 12:02:29 pm »
https://www.grippatank.co.uk/wfp-purification-systems/system-electrics/split-relays

mines the 30amp full smart kit(it sits behind my drivers seat)very pricey but it does the job and keeps my batteries topped up...
price higher/work harder!

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2018, 02:29:47 pm »
I think Sterling products are top rate, but I also think that George is taking this experiment to the limit. It will probably apply more to caravaners as the 7 pin trailer couplings are always a issue for making good contact joins. So a lot of his issues would have been at the trailer coupling pin.

I use a 140 amp split charge relay with 70 amp cabling. Previously I used 20 amp cabling using a 10 amp split charge relay. Using the same gauge I found very little increase in charging rate between both systems. It certainly didn't solve my recharging issues. I still have to 'bench' charge my leisure battery as we to do very little mileage.

I had thought of buying one of these for the new van and trying it, but Numax once told me that charging a leisure battery at 10% of its capacity (110 amp leisure = 11 amps) is the ideal. However, George is charging his caravans battery at 28 amps. (I couldn't make out what battery George is using. Someone asked but there was no response. I'm sure he did say it was a 110amp but I don't recall him saying if it was a starter or leisure battery. I did look on the internet for the battery make, but still not exactly sure. The one listed that I saw was a dual purpose battery - starter and leisure.)

Thank you Spruce for your comments.
I had not heard of the 10% of capacity charging rate before.
Every day's a school day!
I really think that I don't do enough mileage in a day to make a normal split charge system work effectively for me.
And in hindsight this Battery to Battery Charging with the high charge rate probably won't be a long term solution then if it could potentially decrease the life of the Battery.
So it's given me some perspective and I will probably now swing towards charging the leisure battery up with a 240 volt smart charger in the van and get an outside socket fitted.
One of the Plebs

Don Kee

  • Posts: 4879
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 03:06:11 pm »
Normal VSR’s are pretty cheap these days, why not fit one as well as bench charging?

You will still have to bench charge but might find you only have to do it 1/2 times a week rather than 2/3.
Also if you find you have a day where you have forgotten to bench charge, the VSR will get you theough a couplw more houses by switching the van on.
Why don't you have a quick google before making stupid comments?

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 05:22:51 pm »
I have to say these dual purpose batteries are great , it has not been on the bench for a month now  ;D
Dumb alternators with solar are the way to go  ;)

 ;D ;D ;D
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 05:40:55 pm »
I think Sterling products are top rate, but I also think that George is taking this experiment to the limit. It will probably apply more to caravaners as the 7 pin trailer couplings are always a issue for making good contact joins. So a lot of his issues would have been at the trailer coupling pin.

I use a 140 amp split charge relay with 70 amp cabling. Previously I used 20 amp cabling using a 10 amp split charge relay. Using the same gauge I found very little increase in charging rate between both systems. It certainly didn't solve my recharging issues. I still have to 'bench' charge my leisure battery as we to do very little mileage.

I had thought of buying one of these for the new van and trying it, but Numax once told me that charging a leisure battery at 10% of its capacity (110 amp leisure = 11 amps) is the ideal. However, George is charging his caravans battery at 28 amps. (I couldn't make out what battery George is using. Someone asked but there was no response. I'm sure he did say it was a 110amp but I don't recall him saying if it was a starter or leisure battery. I did look on the internet for the battery make, but still not exactly sure. The one listed that I saw was a dual purpose battery - starter and leisure.)

Thank you Spruce for your comments.
I had not heard of the 10% of capacity charging rate before.
Every day's a school day!
I really think that I don't do enough mileage in a day to make a normal split charge system work effectively for me.
And in hindsight this Battery to Battery Charging with the high charge rate probably won't be a long term solution then if it could potentially decrease the life of the Battery.
So it's given me some perspective and I will probably now swing towards charging the leisure battery up with a 240 volt smart charger in the van and get an outside socket fitted.

Unfortunately, this is the unknown quantity.

Since this discussion with Numax a number of years ago now, dual batteries are becoming more popular in the leisure industry. So does this mean that because they will support short outward bursts of high amps starting an engine that they will also tollerate a higher charging rate? I guess we need to ask them the question.

We all know that alternators make very poor battery chargers, but they don't need to be any better. What they are very good at is keeping all the vehicles electrics (rear screen demister, heater fan, heated seats, radio and headlights) supplied with enough power on idle. So all it needs to do is supply enough charge back into the battery to return what the starter took out starting the vehicle.
In our speak, a couple of seconds starting a 2 liter diesel engine will take about as much current as one of our water pumps does in an hour. So maybe with fancy electronics we could charge them faster.

But I haven't heard Dazmond saying that sometimes he puts his battery on charge only for the charger to switch off immediately. This would seem to indicate to me that his battery to battery charger isn't the total solution for our industry if we travel short distances.

A decent size solar panel on the roof with a quality MPPT controller will probably get you by from spring through to autumn, so that could well at least save you 8 months of lugging a battery about.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

dazmond

  • Posts: 23988
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2018, 06:04:23 pm »
I think Sterling products are top rate, but I also think that George is taking this experiment to the limit. It will probably apply more to caravaners as the 7 pin trailer couplings are always a issue for making good contact joins. So a lot of his issues would have been at the trailer coupling pin.

I use a 140 amp split charge relay with 70 amp cabling. Previously I used 20 amp cabling using a 10 amp split charge relay. Using the same gauge I found very little increase in charging rate between both systems. It certainly didn't solve my recharging issues. I still have to 'bench' charge my leisure battery as we to do very little mileage.

I had thought of buying one of these for the new van and trying it, but Numax once told me that charging a leisure battery at 10% of its capacity (110 amp leisure = 11 amps) is the ideal. However, George is charging his caravans battery at 28 amps. (I couldn't make out what battery George is using. Someone asked but there was no response. I'm sure he did say it was a 110amp but I don't recall him saying if it was a starter or leisure battery. I did look on the internet for the battery make, but still not exactly sure. The one listed that I saw was a dual purpose battery - starter and leisure.)

Thank you Spruce for your comments.
I had not heard of the 10% of capacity charging rate before.
Every day's a school day!
I really think that I don't do enough mileage in a day to make a normal split charge system work effectively for me.
And in hindsight this Battery to Battery Charging with the high charge rate probably won't be a long term solution then if it could potentially decrease the life of the Battery.
So it's given me some perspective and I will probably now swing towards charging the leisure battery up with a 240 volt smart charger in the van and get an outside socket fitted.

Unfortunately, this is the unknown quantity.

Since this discussion with Numax a number of years ago now, dual batteries are becoming more popular in the leisure industry. So does this mean that because they will support short outward bursts of high amps starting an engine that they will also tollerate a higher charging rate? I guess we need to ask them the question.

We all know that alternators make very poor battery chargers, but they don't need to be any better. What they are very good at is keeping all the vehicles electrics (rear screen demister, heater fan, heated seats, radio and headlights) supplied with enough power on idle. So all it needs to do is supply enough charge back into the battery to return what the starter took out starting the vehicle.
In our speak, a couple of seconds starting a 2 liter diesel engine will take about as much current as one of our water pumps does in an hour. So maybe with fancy electronics we could charge them faster.

But I haven't heard Dazmond saying that sometimes he puts his battery on charge only for the charger to switch off immediately. This would seem to indicate to me that his battery to battery charger isn't the total solution for our industry if we travel short distances.

A decent size solar panel on the roof with a quality MPPT controller will probably get you by from spring through to autumn, so that could well at least save you 8 months of lugging a battery about.

dont forget spruce im running a 9.9 kw diesel heater on full whack for 5 to 6 hours a day without the engine running and very little mileage(10-20 miles a day)usually 10.

if i had this b to b set up with just one pump and controller to run and no diesel heater i reckon i wouldnt have to bench charge at all.often ill check my batteries at the end of the day and theyll be reading 12.4/12.5 which is around 75% charge.i tend to bench charge them every night as its easy for me to run a cable out to my van (and on cold nights the frost stat feature will kick in a few times taking power out of the batteries)....
price higher/work harder!

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 06:33:15 pm »
Sorry guys - his name is Charles Stering, not George. I was working with George the window cleaners program today and the brain was in that rut.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: 12 volt Battery to Battery Charger
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2018, 06:36:10 pm »
I think Sterling products are top rate, but I also think that George is taking this experiment to the limit. It will probably apply more to caravaners as the 7 pin trailer couplings are always a issue for making good contact joins. So a lot of his issues would have been at the trailer coupling pin.

I use a 140 amp split charge relay with 70 amp cabling. Previously I used 20 amp cabling using a 10 amp split charge relay. Using the same gauge I found very little increase in charging rate between both systems. It certainly didn't solve my recharging issues. I still have to 'bench' charge my leisure battery as we to do very little mileage.

I had thought of buying one of these for the new van and trying it, but Numax once told me that charging a leisure battery at 10% of its capacity (110 amp leisure = 11 amps) is the ideal. However, George is charging his caravans battery at 28 amps. (I couldn't make out what battery George is using. Someone asked but there was no response. I'm sure he did say it was a 110amp but I don't recall him saying if it was a starter or leisure battery. I did look on the internet for the battery make, but still not exactly sure. The one listed that I saw was a dual purpose battery - starter and leisure.)

Thank you Spruce for your comments.
I had not heard of the 10% of capacity charging rate before.
Every day's a school day!
I really think that I don't do enough mileage in a day to make a normal split charge system work effectively for me.
And in hindsight this Battery to Battery Charging with the high charge rate probably won't be a long term solution then if it could potentially decrease the life of the Battery.
So it's given me some perspective and I will probably now swing towards charging the leisure battery up with a 240 volt smart charger in the van and get an outside socket fitted.

Unfortunately, this is the unknown quantity.

Since this discussion with Numax a number of years ago now, dual batteries are becoming more popular in the leisure industry. So does this mean that because they will support short outward bursts of high amps starting an engine that they will also tollerate a higher charging rate? I guess we need to ask them the question.

We all know that alternators make very poor battery chargers, but they don't need to be any better. What they are very good at is keeping all the vehicles electrics (rear screen demister, heater fan, heated seats, radio and headlights) supplied with enough power on idle. So all it needs to do is supply enough charge back into the battery to return what the starter took out starting the vehicle.
In our speak, a couple of seconds starting a 2 liter diesel engine will take about as much current as one of our water pumps does in an hour. So maybe with fancy electronics we could charge them faster.

But I haven't heard Dazmond saying that sometimes he puts his battery on charge only for the charger to switch off immediately. This would seem to indicate to me that his battery to battery charger isn't the total solution for our industry if we travel short distances.

A decent size solar panel on the roof with a quality MPPT controller will probably get you by from spring through to autumn, so that could well at least save you 8 months of lugging a battery about.

dont forget spruce im running a 9.9 kw diesel heater on full whack for 5 to 6 hours a day without the engine running and very little mileage(10-20 miles a day)usually 10.

if i had this b to b set up with just one pump and controller to run and no diesel heater i reckon i wouldnt have to bench charge at all.often ill check my batteries at the end of the day and theyll be reading 12.4/12.5 which is around 75% charge.i tend to bench charge them every night as its easy for me to run a cable out to my van (and on cold nights the frost stat feature will kick in a few times taking power out of the batteries)....

Daz, what you are doing is right. Recharge them to fully charged every night if you can.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)