[Splash & dash]

On a serious note Steve with your contacts in the solar industry I think that the designs of a solar panel is fundamentally floored shortly the panel could be made in a way that the panel it’s self can be turned off to prevent it producing electricity , there is currently no way of turning the panel off it is only possible to do this to prevent the electricity at the inverter which is quite often in the kitchen or garage quite a distance from the panels themselves and this leaves a lot of live cables between the panels and inverter if you get what I mean this is a genuine question and one that we are experiencing more and more with house fires and fires in industrial buildings I feel that the hse or building regs should implement change as this is a dangerous practice that needs addressing can you or your contacts do something about this as Ime sure manufactures could easily over come this issue

Only way i can think of a solar panel being safely switched off, is by having a blinding device over the surface much like a bathroom blind which blocks the sun.

This idea was thought of by Mr Marc Stock,  under Bramar Ltd. 06/02/2018 21:12- if anyone wants to use my idea this is on a public record forum that royalties should be made to Bramar Ltd

Lol Ime not an invented just a simple window cleaner but shorly there must be a way to stop a panel producing power by a switch or something tests have proved that covering a panel will not nessasarily prevent all power production I have been involved with this discussion with several managers at green gen they are the major player where I am we have been trying to come up with a solution to 100% guarantee the panels are dead and cannot produce power , I am very surprised that the solar industry has got as far as it has with out this issue not being sorted out it would be a bit like buying a new car and once you start the engine there’s no way to turn it off : from the descutions that we have had at quite senior levels everyone hums and hars and cannot come up with an answer that they will put in writing they will say stuff but won’t commit to putting it into a hse policy , the fire service have been trying to get a definitive answer from the industry and they haven’t been very forthcoming to say the least Shorly before these panels were ever allowed to be installed this issue should have been sorted out

[Walter Mitty]

How does he take 150% off the top..?

I took that to mean that the total job price can be 250% higher than what the subby is paid i.e. that the proportion can be about 4:6 in the more extreme cases (I'm not speaking from experience - just suggesting an interpretation of another's post).
In fairness, it does cost time and money to organise.  Also, Solar Steve's VAT cannot be taken into account when calculating this, as that is the government's money.  150% sounds a pretty high mark up though if true.

7 months down the line our now  customer asked what we got payed the clean the panels ?  when i told him we got 190 he then went in to the house and got the 550+vat invoice out to show us ! i

Then that's actually more than 150% on top.
Ignoring VAT as that isn't his money:
£190 as against £550
190 + 190 + 170
170/190=0.89 (roughly) so it's about 189% on top.
Looked at another way: 190/550 = 0.345, so you got about 34.5% of the money.  I think we all accept that getting the work and distributing it costs money and that there are fixed business costs too.  Then there is a profit to be made.  I won't pretend to have a clue how much that comes to, but the mark up does sound like what you'd expect if you were on PAYE with  rights to holiday pay etc. and the employer paying the running costs of equipment.  It does sound a lot but possibly not as high as it might first appear.

[Steve Newres]

At the end of the day chaps, it doesn't matter what health and saftey regulations comes of this or not. Those who don't go with change will loose out. So its worth knowing about it so we can prepare our minds and businesses to move forward with any changes.

It wouldn't surprise me if in 5 years time they will look to regulate the window cleaning industry aswell. So many new window cleaning businesses have started up recently its ridiculous. And the skill levels are shocking. Truly shocking.

Evolution sorts out those whose skill levels are that shocking. They dig their own graves

....... or go into solar panel cleaning.

[Arnold Palmer]

HSE won't do diddly squat until there are accidents, serious accidents. Even then operators are already liable under existing h&s legislation.

[Steve Newres]

How does he take 150% off the top..?

I took that to mean that the total job price can be 250% higher than what the subby is paid i.e. that the proportion can be about 4:6 in the more extreme cases (I'm not speaking from experience - just suggesting an interpretation of another's post).
In fairness, it does cost time and money to organise.  Also, Solar Steve's VAT cannot be taken into account when calculating this, as that is the government's money.  150% sounds a pretty high mark up though if true.

Ah right, fair enough.

I’m by no means a SS fanboy, it does seem a little off to moan about the pay split ratio when most on here want to pay their employees £60-£80 whilst making them clean £250+.

The H&S side of it is just balls to make himself appear industry leading whether to us or these ‘big businesses’.

I don’t let it bother me to be honest, just let the chap talk away; I’ll take notice when the  apparent oncoming legislation actually comes into play when we clean the odd small array of solar panels, until then I’ll use a little bit of common sense and the advice from the installer that gives out our details as part of his info pack.

What a strange thing to say. Firstly an employer has all sorts of overheads that SS won’t have on his subbies and secondly to be profitable 3 x salary earned every day is just about spot on.

[zesty]

I find this very odd.

I admire Steve, I admire anyone who has built a large, respectable business in a niche market. I am guessing you have worked extremely hard and focussed and sacrificed to get to where you are. Fair play to you. And then to top it off, you have been asked to represent the industry as a whole, to help provide a working foundation for future H&S within the industry.

What I find odd, is people (window cleaners) come on here asking if it is 'safe' to clean solar panels, in the same way they would ask about the correct ladders or safety aids for ladders etc. It's usually at times like this people muck in to give help and advice.

Steve, you obviously know the safe way to clean solar panels, so why can't you offer that advice?
Why can't you just say 'OK guys, to clean a domestic solar panel safely, you need to do XY and Z'

Once regulations are brought in, then fair enough, everyone will abide by them and if they need to, they can go on the courses for best practice. In the short term some window cleaners would benefit from some safety guidance.

Is it irony that you set yourself up as an expert in the field, providing H&S expertise for future working practices and yet you can't even help people on a forum to stay safe when working!

He would never give any advice to anyone without them paying first.

This is all about money and nout to do with peoples safety. Shows how much he really cares about H&S. If he cared about people’s well being he would inform as many people as possible about how to clean panels safely.

To me that proves he’s a nasty piece of work, willing to let others ‘die’ from lack of knowledge, whilst withholding the very knowledge that could have saved their lives.

BUT! You have nothing to worry about, ive spoken to several installers and they all recommend cleaning them as normal (same as window cleaning)

It’s all money, all Steve’s after is money, and he’ll use any scaremainering to increase his profit and business.

Everyone carry on as normal, you will not die from cleaning solar panels!

[Dry Clean]

This has nothing to do with the well being and safety of others its the same as the window cleaning licence in Scotland, guys who had reached a certain level of success wanting to make it harder for others to start up and compete.

[Mick Kent]

Thanks for the info Steve.

[Arnold Palmer]

This has nothing to do with the well being and safety of others its the same as the window cleaning licence in Scotland, guys who had reached a certain level of success wanting to make it harder for others to start up and compete.

Harder to compete?

Paying £81 for a three year licence and showing your public liability insurance to the council is hardly difficult.

[Arnold Palmer]

Thanks for the info Steve.

Which info is that? As far as I'm aware, he's given none.

[dazmond]

Thanks for the info Steve.

Which info is that? As far as I'm aware, he's given none.

i think mick  was being sarcastic...although its doesnt come through that well on an internet post!!

[Walter Mitty]

This has nothing to do with the well being and safety of others its the same as the window cleaning licence in Scotland, guys who had reached a certain level of success wanting to make it harder for others to start up and compete.

Harder to compete?

Paying £81 for a three year licence and showing your public liability insurance to the council is hardly difficult.

Isn't that £81 per town though?  I would have to fork out about a grand if that's the case.

[Richie76]

I've got an aluminium tower scaffold which I'd ring bolt to the house then could I not just wfp the solar panels as I would windows.
Btw I'm a total novice just starting out so I'm here picking brains in all honesty

[Plankton]

This has nothing to do with the well being and safety of others its the same as the window cleaning licence in Scotland, guys who had reached a certain level of success wanting to make it harder for others to start up and compete.

I think it was more to do with folk walking into gardens with a ladder with the view to breaking in. Not all areas require a license and it's around £140 for three years per council area. There's around 15 licensed window cleaners for the East Dunbartonshire area which only applies to Milngavie and Bearsden with the other areas within East Dunbartonshire exempt. So to give you an idea of how many people that's affected there's around 15 people carrying out window cleaning within a stones throw from where I stay alone!

[Arnold Palmer]

This has nothing to do with the well being and safety of others its the same as the window cleaning licence in Scotland, guys who had reached a certain level of success wanting to make it harder for others to start up and compete.

Harder to compete?

Paying £81 for a three year licence and showing your public liability insurance to the council is hardly difficult.

Isn't that £81 per town though?  I would have to fork out about a grand if that's the case.

Per council region.

[AuRavelling79]

Yes, but for confidentiality reasons, I can't say. For which I will probably be mocked. But at the moment, I'm not at liberty to say.

What I can say though is that I have referenced this forum on a number of occasions and it is due to the very obvious lack of knowledge, blasé attitude towards solar panel cleaning within the window cleaning community and reports on here of more than one person admitting they have been electrocuted, that has forced the relevant body on which I am a part of, that regulation is now due.

The more that people come on here and spout, the more ammo the organisation has the go to HSE and get solar panel cleaning regulated. This forum proves the problem is pandemic. That's why regulation is needed and I will continue to print threads off here, quote people, show the industry their websites etc and expose the scale of the problem.

Hmmm ... that seems a very contemptuous use of this forum and its members Solar Steve. I believe such a post might even be perceived as a reason for wondering if it is mutually beneficial for you to remain here if that is how you view this community.

But maybe you'd like to explain why that should not be the case?

Well you had your chance ...