[Steven Biggs]

I currently have 50 metres of pole hose on our pf nano trolley .digital spring controller 1-99 . Plus 100 psi pump . but we can never get the flow as powerful as the van mount . Which is a different controller . Digital 1- 9 . Plus 100 psi shurflo pump . Am I asking too much of the trolley  with all that pole hose or should the flow be as good as the van mount .? Cheers .

[Spruce]

I currently have 50 metres of pole hose on our pf nano trolley .digital spring controller 1-99 . Plus 100 psi pump . but we can never get the flow as powerful as the van mount . Which is a different controller . Digital 1- 9 . Plus 100 psi shurflo pump . Am I asking too much of the trolley  with all that pole hose or should the flow be as good as the van mount .? Cheers .

What size hose are you using on your mount? Minibore or Microbore or are you comparing using the same hose? In our application the flow rate between minibore (8mm id) and Microbore (6mm id) is about 30% less. Microbore is half the size of minibore. So if you are using 5mm pole hose over 50 meters you are in a worse situation.

Are the pumps the same? We have 2 Shurflo pumps on the van, one is a 3.8lpm flow and the other 5.2lpm.

Varistream and Spring are 2 different manufacturers. How does the remaining Boost mode you didn't mention compare to 99 on the spring controller?

 I have never compared the 2 but I would not assume that 3 on a Varistream is the same flow setting as 30 on a Spring controller.

I'm also not sure how this is relates to their new lithium ion battery either? Does it have the same grunt as the old lead acid battery did?

[Steven Biggs]

We use 100 metres of microbore on the van mount. I can’t tell what pump is on the nano trolley . But it isn’t a shurflo 100 psi . Pf say they use the same controller and pump on the troley and van mount . Also auto calibration does not work on the trolley . It just shows error . I have to manually calibrate . Yesterday I could only get a half decent flow with calibration at 70 and flow at 80 . If you higher the flow it just dead ends .

[Steven Biggs]

Just been and looked at the pump . It is a streamflow 4.5 litre per minute . Is thix what they use on there van mount ? Not as powerful as the shurflo .

[Plankton]

It's the length of pole hose that'll be the issue. I done a wee test last year for a softwash setup to work out the flow rate for different hose diameters at different lengths. It might seem obvious but if you want a good flow then keep the pole hose to a minimum as the longer the pole hose is the more it'll slowdown the flow. 

[Steven Biggs]

On pf site it says the pump is silent running . This one makes a fair noise and vibration .

[Steven Biggs]

Thanks for going to trouble of replying Alan and spruce , I suppose length of hose could be an issue . But still the pump could be faulty or they are not very good. 

[M & C Window Cleaning]

I use a modified pf trolley with a 5lpm open flow 70psi pump. Most of the time I use a 17mtr length of pole hose and get great flow at 08 (it goes to 10) on my controller. However, I occasionally use a 25mtr length of the same hose and the difference in flow at the brush is noticeably less. To get the same flow as with the short hose I have to bump the controller to 09

You are not only using a different length of hose with the trolley, but a smaller ID hose than with your van mount, and also a different pump, controller and battery.

I tried using a 3.2ltr 60psi pump with my trolley and it was woefully inadequate with 17mtrs of pole hose. However, in my backpack with a very short hose it's just fine.

[Steven Biggs]

Yeh I know what you are saying . But the issue is , pf advertise these as good as there van mount . Now my 10 year old varistream and shurflo pump have had 100 metres of pole hose , microbore and mini bore on . And still going strong . They have put a cheap pump on and the spring controller which is nowhere near as good as the varistream .

[M & C Window Cleaning]

Yeh I know what you are saying . But the issue is , pf advertise these as good as there van mount . Now my 10 year old varistream and shurflo pump have had 100 metres of pole hose , microbore and mini bore on . And still going strong . They have put a cheap pump on and the spring controller which is nowhere near as good as the varistream .

Ah! That's different. The original trolleys had the exact same pump and controller as the van mounts. Only difference was the battery and tank capacity were smaller.

[robbo333]

I had an older PF trolley (got fed up with it) so I stripped the pump and controller out to make a van mount.  The battery was knackered so I replaced with 75 Amp. I have since made a pump box with all 3 items.
I run about 60m of Gardiners reinforced pole hose on my main reel and never had a problem. The sureflow pump runs at 50 and I get a good jet of water (10 feet maybe from 2 pencil jets).
I've used this system for over 5 years and now need to replace the hose as it's swolen.  But all good.

[Steven Biggs]

So any advice on if I were to bypass the controller . Would the pump just run on full flow . But would it then be running too fast . But it would also do away with that 4.second delay .

[Spruce]

Just been and looked at the pump . It is a streamflow 4.5 litre per minute . Is thix what they use on there van mount ? Not as powerful as the shurflo .

If you look more carefully at the pump you will see that the label says that it draws a max of 2.3 amps. That is a similar motor that the backpacks use. If you have a small capacity battery to reduce weight, then you have to compromise elsewhere.  A Shurflo pump draws a maximum of 8 amps. The battery fitted to the Nano Trolley is a 16amph Lithium battery.

About the pump they say;
Powerful 100psi  pump giving equivalent power to most van mounted commercial water fed pole systems – will easily handle poles up to 80ft. (Equivalent to doesn't mean the same as "the same as.") So I very much doubt that it is the same pump they use on their van mounts.

The reason why you can't use auto calibrate is that the Spring controller needs more current draw to set the controller than the pump draws. (Dead-ending is dependant on amp draw which translates into cut off pressure. A pressure switch is mechanical.)

In normal day to day window cleaning our Shurflo pumps draw around 4.5 amps through the controller.  If you could draw all 16amps from the battery, thats 3.5 hours of washing windows time. In reality, using a Shurflo pump means that the window cleaner would only do just over half a days work before the battery is flat.

[Spruce]

So any advice on if I were to bypass the controller . Would the pump just run on full flow . But would it then be running too fast . But it would also do away with that 4.second delay .

Removing the controller would mean a slightly higher current draw. It would also mean that you would use a lot more water.

The Gardiner backpack has a 2 speed switch. Speed no1 directs the power through the electronic controller. The 2nd speed has the motor going a full speed. We use more water in the No2 position.

Trolleys and backpacks are all about compromise. Son prefers my backpack as he doesn't have hoses to deal with. His setup time is quicker, his washing time the same as mine is with the hose reel, but rinsing is a slow process. If he uses the 2nd speed he uses more water per house. On a van mount that doesn't matter, but using a trolley it does.

But that's my opinion. Why not remove the controller and see how you get on.

[Steven Biggs]

As per usual . An in depth and easy to follow explanation .thanks spruce .  Reading that I think I will leave it has it is . Maybe reduce the length of hose to 30 metres instead of the 50 we have on . We are just a bit lazy and like to get as many houses as we can without moving he trolley too much . Also leaving it behind the van on trickle fill while working . Like you say it’s about compromise using a trolley . It’s definitely workable . And like the wife says to me sometimes a bit more would be nice .  ;Thanks again for those replies .

[M & C Window Cleaning]

So any advice on if I were to bypass the controller . Would the pump just run on full flow . But would it then be running too fast . But it would also do away with that 4.second delay .

The 4 sec delay is part of the way that the Autocal feature works on modern controllers.
If you want control over your pump but don't want the 4 sec delay, fit a simple PWM controller.
The problem with fitting controllers with an 'Autocal' feature to trolleys is that many of us who use them use a much shorter hose and often just use pole hose with very little flexibility. So when you shut off the water flow with a tap they don't expand much before the pump dead ends. This makes the 4 sec delay very noticeable in use and can be extremely anoying. It drove me nuts.

[Steven Biggs]

So what is a pwm controller .

[Spruce]

So what is a pwm controller .

Here is an example
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-40V-10A-Pulse-Width-Modulator-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-Switch-Controller/142478390845?hash=item212c5fb63d:m:mf_BHPTQwM2sAFO9W5Iu3-Q

It does a similar thing to the Spring controller but doesn't have the dead end function.  You rely on your pressure switch in the pump to switch the pump off when the pressure has been reached. Its not as electronically sophisticated as a Spring controller so won't be as efficient.

One of the lads on the other forum has done this. He also cut a couple of coils out of the spring in the pressure switch so the switch activates at a lower pressure. You have rather a long hose which might change things.

A PWM is really a motor rotation rpm controller. By turning the numpty (k n o b) you increase or decrease the rpm that the motor turns at.

A motor will run flat out with a continous electrical current supplied to it. If you added a voltage resistor such as a dimmer switch, reducing voltage will reduce the motor's rotational speed. But doing this also reduces the power of the motor which defeats the object.

So what a PWM controller does is sends pulses of current through the cable to the motor. Simply put, the faster the pulses the faster the motor turns. Because each pulse of current is the full voltage, the motor still retains its torque.

It goes something like this.

Continous current = full speed.
pulse ... off ... pulse ... off ...pulse ... off ... pulse ... etc = reduced speed. 
pulse ... off ... off ... pulse ... off ... off ... pulse  = slower speed.
pulse ... off ... off ... off ... off ... pulse ... off ... off ... off ... off ... pulse = much slower speed.

Fit the controller into a small box and add an on/off switch.

Here's one an Ebay supplier has made to sell. But you must a pump with a working pressure switch.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SafeFlow-window-cleaning-pump-controller-water-fed-pole-system-wfp/173093353980?hash=item284d2af9fc:g:HhcAAOSwA~VaLSNF

.

[Steven Biggs]

Thanks for going to the trouble of explaining and putting that link up . Really appreciate it . Might give that a go . It's worth a punt at £30 .

[Steven Biggs]

I've just had a root about in the van . And found a spare digital varistream controller . The same I use on the van mount . If I was to swap this with the one on the trolley , would that work ok . Plus would it do away with that 4 second delay . Cheers