[nathankaye]

Completely seperate......kinda

This looks interesting. What are your thoughts???  Have you tried this P&F as you have 2 controllers i belief?

https://youtu.be/rBbVIiOBuT4

[P @ F]

Diagram is on way , what you say about meter after panel will only show what you are getting from the panel , what you really need is meter after MPPT , thats what is more important to know .
I have 1 after panel and 1 after MPPT to see what the MPPT is doing for me , I also have 1 to see what the pump and controller are using .
I have not put the after panel meter on the diagram , but im sure you can do that one yerself 
On way now !

[P @ F]

Yer tiz 

[P @ F]

You should have said you was getting one Nath , I got this spare one here doing nowt , only £20 !
Its not as efficient as my £80 Bluesolar beastie but it does convert Volts to extra Amps , i got a gap on the wall in the mancave for it me thinks 

[nathankaye]

You should have said you was getting one Nath , I got this spare one here doing nowt , only £20 !
Its not as efficient as my £80 Bluesolar beastie but it does convert Volts to extra Amps , i got a gap on the wall in the mancave for it me thinks 

Why not run 2 controllers?
This seems to work
https://youtu.be/rBbVIiOBuT4

[P @ F]

Completely seperate......kinda

This looks interesting. What are your thoughts???  Have you tried this P&F as you have 2 controllers i belief?

https://youtu.be/rBbVIiOBuT4

Yeah i saw that AltE vid , no matter how long i look at the wiring diagram for it , i cant seem to see what they have done 
The last thing i want to do is blow up my expensive controller .....
Maybe Spruce could put it in laymans terms for me 

[zesty]

I run a maplin 15 watt solar panel to my leisure battery, in the summer it’s amazing, never have to bench charge the battery.

Winter it’s a bit pants, but does work as a trickle charger.

Thinking of getting a second one, am I right in thinking I can wire them together? Eg red to red and black to black? Then into the battery terminals?

I’m no electrician!

Obviously it’s no where near as much power as you guys are getting, but for me it just helps keep the battery healthy, summer wise it’s always at full charge, sometimes raading over 14 volts  Not sure if that’s a bad thing!? All from a 15 watt maplin panel.

It’s apparently got a blocking diode in it which stops reverse Charging, not sure if it works or not!

[nathankaye]

I run a maplin 15 watt solar panel to my leisure battery, in the summer it’s amazing, never have to bench charge the battery.

Winter it’s a bit pants, but does work as a trickle charger.

Thinking of getting a second one, am I right in thinking I can wire them together? Eg red to red and black to black? Then into the battery terminals?

I’m no electrician!

Obviously it’s no where near as much power as you guys are getting, but for me it just helps keep the battery healthy, summer wise it’s always at full charge, sometimes raading over 14 volts  Not sure if that’s a bad thing!? All from a 15 watt maplin panel.

It’s apparently got a blocking diode in it which stops reverse Charging, not sure if it works or not!

Hiya I started in the same way and still have my 10wat panel with blocking diode which I used for quite a while. I simply used my flow controller to keep check on the voltage. Dependingb on what charger you use for the bench charge you wont be putting the amps back in the battery and especially not with the 15w panel. I didnt realise this untill I got a smart charger that carried on charging  after my basic one would have shown it to be fully charged.
So you will be better with a panel that will replace the ampage as your pump will take between 3 -5 amps per hour and the 15w at optimum level will be giving less than 1 or about 1amp per hour. So even though your battery is trickle charging its not being fully charged if you know what I mean

[zesty]

Yeah I get what you mean Nathan,

I bench charge with a ring smart charger, but surely the solar panel, if left on and the window cleaning equipment not used, would still eventually fully charge the battery? It seemed to in the summer...

[nathankaye]

Yeah I get what you mean Nathan,

I bench charge with a ring smart charger, but surely the solar panel, if left on and the window cleaning equipment not used, would still eventually fully charge the battery? It seemed to in the summer...

I did just the same, but if its left unchecked if the voltage goes higher than 15.5 (I think), its then damaging the battery. So you need to keep a close eye on it. But its more about the ampage and not the voltage in terms of keeping the battery in top condition.
If you look at the backnof your panel it will tell you the max amps per hour you could expect to get from the panel in optimum conditions and then look at your pump details to see how much amps your using from the battery. You can then work out how much amps you need to replace via the 12v charge.

Lol ive not long realised all of this myself as I had a 20w panel fixed on the roof and used my flow controller to keep an eye on the voltage and swear by it as can be seen in many back posts on CIU.  But due to P&F showing the volts and also spruce talking about it, Ive learnt to adjust and thats why I have got the 2nd bigger panel.

Then watch some you tube vids about PWM or MPPT controllers compared to feeding your battery direct.

These combinations of above has left me to completely change mine

[nathankaye]

MPPT controller arrived today and my second watt/amp meter and so I spent some time today fixing it together (wife took ill during night so I was at home with kids n dragged em all out 😂)

https://youtu.be/1M3Gu_MPGoc

[Spruce]

Yer tiz 

Your wiring diagragm of the power going into your pump controller and then the pump isn't correct. However, it won't alter the rest of the setup diagram. 

The black and red wire go into the controller. Then another pair of black and red wires go from the controller to the pump.

[Spruce]

Completely seperate......kinda

This looks interesting. What are your thoughts???  Have you tried this P&F as you have 2 controllers i belief?

https://youtu.be/rBbVIiOBuT4

Yeah i saw that AltE vid , no matter how long i look at the wiring diagram for it , i cant seem to see what they have done 
The last thing i want to do is blow up my expensive controller .....
Maybe Spruce could put it in laymans terms for me 

What she is saying is that you can run 2 charge controllers into one leisure battery if you need to.

She starts off by saying that you might consider this if you already have a solar array and you want to add more panels to it, but in doing so you will max out the controller that you already have. So you would leave the original setup as it was. Then you would add the next array and wire that to another charge controller. Then you join the outputs from both charge controllers together at the gauge which then goes into your battery.

She says that if you had the 2 working together in tandem then they equal the same result with just one controller. Well her results didn't quite show that (they were close but not exact) as there will be a little discrepancy because some power will get lost in the running of the second charge controller. But she's a sales person and its her job to promote the sale of solar panels. I've seen numerous of her videos and I can't remember one where she advised against a solar setup. With her, they are all pros and there are no cons to solar.

With P&F's controller, he hasn't reached to max input his controller will handle, so if he separated his panels and gave them each a controller, he would be slightly worse off with his charging rate. (No charge controller will be 100% efficient. Just generating a little warmth means lost power.)

If he did reach the maximum capacity of his controller in summer then it doesn't matter. Wasting a few amps at peak collecting time won't mean his battery won't be fully charged.
 

[Spruce]

For anyone thinking along the lines of solar the most important part of the setup is the charge controller.

To maximize the most from your panel you need a good one. There are numerous examples on YouTube of controllers claiming to be MPPT but barely are.
In my opinion Victron gets my vote. There are many others of equal quality, but, as I don't know which they are, for me it will be Victron every time.

The issue with window cleaner is that we are power hungry. In summer P&F will have no problem keeping his leisure battery full with his panels; in winter he is going to struggle.

I've linked the experiences of a narrowboater to show the difference in winter and summer solar performance. Unfortunately most solar users need the power the most in winter when their panels are performing badly due to the winter sun we have in this country.

I follow a couple of the around the world yacht blogs on YouTube. Even in the daily sunshine of the tropics these guys need additional wind power generators and they also use a sea generator just to keep on top of the power useage.
 Most of them also have a diesel generator as well. They also add additional charge into their battery bank when the run there propulsion engine in times of no wind.
.

[nathankaye]

The above is true, but theres still advantages to be had. This winter isnt working well for me but last winter we had a lot more sun and I managed quite well.
Im doing my 2nd bench charge since October tonight. So at least at the moment it isnt weekly. I do carry a 2nd leisure battery incase I end up needing it though, so I do have a back up plan and thats always in the van.

For me I enjoy fidling/tinkering rather than spending. I always have since being a wee boy........I get more satisfaction on doing things for myself. So having free power from the sun is amazing.  So perhaps from spring onwards and the weather changes were experiencing, ive not had to do any bench charging till recent. Saving my electricity cost for my immersion heater instead 😯  😂
So theres still benefits to be had because even split relay batteries will need a good bench charge from time to time.

[P @ F]

Yer tiz 

Your wiring diagragm of the power going into your pump controller and then the pump isn't correct. However, it won't alter the rest of the setup diagram. 

The black and red wire go into the controller. Then another pair of black and red wires go from the controller to the pump.

Yep you are right as usual !
It was just easier to draw it like that 

[P @ F]

Both Nathan and Spruce are right about Autumn/Winter , its not a walk in the park at all , on Tuesday i had 1.7 Amps in and 10 Amps out , today was 2 in and 7 out , but even so , today i used 5 Amps total , so i could carry on like that for 8 days and still be at half charge by the end of it , still in the safe zone maintenance wise , for me though its more about keeping the battery as full as i can whilst working to prevent the onset of calcification .
I think the next test for me is to bypass the MPPT on a bad day and run as Nathan used to with all power going straight to battery.
As long as i keep an eye on volts in not going over 14.5 i cant see an issue , got to be worth a test !

[nathankaye]

I like having the mppt controller and the watt/amp meter but its quite addictive. Im checkingbit more than I kept an eye on my voltage 
But today is quite rubbish with the sun and whennit is out, where I need to park is in the shadows 
So, im now parked in my local aldi which is on the estate where Im working. So ive strategically parked accross 2 bays diagonally to get the full sun whilst ive walked over road to the subway for a coffee. A chance for a quick boost!!

[nathankaye]

Thinking of maybe running the two panels seperate as I may be wrong but watching these amps is depressing today. It could be ignorance but im sure my panel did better flat and direct to the battery.

Today, and its been a steady but late start of a day. Plus ive been using the trolley so not a true normal day.
So amps in (from a 20w and a 50w) was 1.07AH    and I used 3.54 AH  (as ive used trolley a bit today for some jobs)

[P @ F]

When you say separately , how do you mean , what will go where ?