[Arnold Palmer]

The story gains momentum.

https://www.ft.com/content/5aa111ce-c633-11e7-b2bb-322b2cb39656

And a new, lower threshold of 10k is mentioned.

 

This smacks of petty revenge for not being allowed to increase N.I. contributions for the self-employed a while back.
If you don't want this, write to your MP.  I've started drafting a letter to mine (and cc'ing it to Hammond) and will send it in a few days.  Make it clear that you will not be voting for him/her or his/her party again (even if it's untrue).
It's hard to say but if increasing prices by 12% or 20% at a time when incomes are being squeezed and mortgage costs are beginning to nudge upwards, I  estimate I would lose a quarter of my business. That could be enough to finish me off unless I can persuade the card companies to take a haircut.
I would probably just give up, though it's difficult to see a viable alternative.

I do want this. Sooner the better.

You won't lose anything like 25% of your customers.

[Arnold Palmer]

We've had this debate before. It is the customer's tax, but because of the fact that the majority of window cleaners are not VAT registered, it does make passing all of the VAT on quite challenging so the VAT registered business is forced to absorb it. If the playing field does get leveled then everyone will I'm certain just pass it straight on. Or at least they should otherwise it's a massive pay cut.

Don't be daft 8weekly it's a tax on business. Of course it is. The whole idea here is to drop the threshold because people are stalling at 84k.

1k more in a year = 17k tax bill
Tax on business.

If it's a customer tax then if a customer of mine sacks me and hires a cheaper non VAT registered cleaner, is that tax avoidance? Better get on the phone to Panorama.

Residential customers couldn't give a monkey's how your overheads are divvied up, all they know is the price. At the moment VAT registered companies are competing with non VAT registered companies for the same work. None of these customers are looking at the price and considering VAT.

If they level the playing field and everyone has to pay VAT, window cleaning becomes more expensive overnight. Everyone will put their prices up, including already VAT registered companies. Then it becomes the customer's tax.

Bring it on I say.

[Arnold Palmer]

If this goes through I predict the biggest winners will be already VAT registered companies and Karcher.

Biggest losers will be franchisees/ers and people who've 'seperated' their business to avoid VAT. It'll make little difference to anyone else.

[Steve Newres]

We've had this debate before. It is the customer's tax, but because of the fact that the majority of window cleaners are not VAT registered, it does make passing all of the VAT on quite challenging so the VAT registered business is forced to absorb it. If the playing field does get leveled then everyone will I'm certain just pass it straight on. Or at least they should otherwise it's a massive pay cut.

Don't be daft 8weekly it's a tax on business. Of course it is. The whole idea here is to drop the threshold because people are stalling at 84k.

1k more in a year = 17k tax bill
Tax on business.

If it's a customer tax then if a customer of mine sacks me and hires a cheaper non VAT registered cleaner, is that tax avoidance? Better get on the phone to Panorama.

Residential customers couldn't give a monkey's how your overheads are divvied up, all they know is the price. At the moment VAT registered companies are competing with non VAT registered companies for the same work. None of these customers are looking at the price and considering VAT.

If they level the playing field and everyone has to pay VAT, window cleaning becomes more expensive overnight. Everyone will put their prices up, including already VAT registered companies. Then it becomes the customer's tax.

Bring it on I say.

Er, that’s more or less what I said, it’s the customers tax but because there are so many non VAT window cleaners we’re forced to absorb it to compete. As you say, bring it on. It’ll be a 20% extravaganza! 

[Og]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

[Dry Clean]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

LOL.

[Stoots]

It would cripple me overnight with my current situation.

Only option would be to take more cash under the rug or push on for growth

Anyway it won't happen overnight, I'm sure it being discussed behind closed doors but it wont be out of the blue from 85k to 10k

If it does come in it will be staged in 80k, 75k etc

There's nothing in mainstream media or if you read any of the budget predictions it's not mentioned.

This is no more of a certainty than the Arctic weather we are supposed to get every year. Worry about it when it's all over the news....

That's not to say you shouldn't prepare for it, I aim to be at the vat threshold with employees in another year or 2 anyway so  getting  prepared.

[Stoots]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

How many cash in hand windys are there out there? I'll bet hundreds still collect and only deal in cash, it won't make a blind difference to them.

It won't affect cash In hand types and it won't affect already vat registered busineses.

It will affect the millions of sole traders who operate legitimately up to 85k

[Dry Clean]

It wont happen Adam, with the changes in the living wage even low paying employers will be paying wages of £20k or more in a few years, even now its not hard to find a paye factory job at around the £25k mark, add holiday pay, sick pay, pensions, expenses, and your talking at least  £35k shining windows to equal it, there would be no incentive left for any sensible shiner to pay an extra 20% in tax.


£42k a year to equal a £25k paye job, I don't think so.

[andyM]

Maybe now's the time to be moving my wealth and business empire "offshore"? 
 
 

[Steve Newres]

It wont happen Adam, with the changes in the living wage even low paying employers will be paying wages of £20k or more in a few years, even now its not hard to find a paye factory job at around the £25k mark, add holiday pay, sick pay, pensions, expenses, and your talking at least  £35k shining windows to equal it, there would be no incentive left for any sensible shiner to pay an extra 20% in tax.


£42k a year to equal a £25k paye job, I don't think so.

I don’t understand Sean. There will be massive publicity about this. Customers won’t be surprised by it and will accept it. They won’t have any choice if they want their windows cleaned. Black economy workers may come and go but they will be the minority and shouldn’t be a threat. No other types of business absorb the vat, why should window cleaners?

[Arnold Palmer]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5094799/Treasury-faces-backlash-small-business-VAT-rise.html

£43k sounds like a cop out to me. Hammond has proven fairly terrible so far. Totally spineless. I guess we'll find out on Wednesday.

[dazmond]

They'll be riots in the streets I reckon if he goes ahead with lowering the threshold on wednesday . I'll be OK if he lowers it to 43k.ill make sure I just stay under it but 25k?somebody will assassinate him! 

[Arnold Palmer]

I don't think it'll happen. He was on Andrew Marr this morning and there was no mention of it.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

At 43k some on here will have to register for VAT after the first week!!

[davids3511]

I don't think it'll happen. He was on Andrew Marr this morning and there was no mention of it.

He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.

[Arnold Palmer]

He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.

The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.

[Steve Newres]

He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.

The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.

It's a bitch of a system. It really is and very painful unless you deal exclusively b2b. When you compete with non VAT payers who take on their staff as self employed too, it's even more unfair. It's a necessary hurdle though.

[Arnold Palmer]

He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.

The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.

It's a bitch of a system. It really is and very painful unless you deal exclusively b2b. When you compete with non VAT payers who take on their staff as self employed too, it's even more unfair. It's a necessary hurdle though.

Not if the government levels the playing field.

[Steve Newres]

He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.

The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.

It's a bitch of a system. It really is and very painful unless you deal exclusively b2b. When you compete with non VAT payers who take on their staff as self employed too, it's even more unfair. It's a necessary hurdle though.

Not if the government levels the playing field.

It won’t. Other than a couple of articles it hasn’t much been mentioned.