[Stoots]

Affect or effect?

You’re suggesting I should have an objective opinion?

Oh ok, that old game...

for someone who knows the difference between effect and affect and what an objective opinion is it strikes me as quite odd that you chose to consider none of those before making your statement on Vat.

[Dry Clean]

Soupy you need to stop confusing somebody who wants to pay a fair amount of tax with somebody who just doesn't want to
pay any, example, the poll tax wasn't shot down because the Scots were morally bankrupt it was shot down because it wasn't fair.

Some don't need to charge VAT for a service but others do, how is that fair?

Nobody needs to charge VAT under the threshold just as nobody needs to pay 40% income tax until they go over the income tax threshold.
It fair because we all benefit from the thresholds until we don't.

[Martin Lane]

This wont affect us as we have been vat registered for 20 years, but i read some where if you register say tomorrow you can claim all the vat from your last 3 years account, this would be a nice windfall that would soften the blow

Martin

[Arnold Palmer]

Fairly large number (52) voted in the poll and more than half willing to power on through any threshold.

[Stoots]

Fairly large number (52) voted in the poll and more than half willing to power on through any threshold.

Absolutely I would too.

But it doesn't mean I wouldn't like to benefit from the current system until it's required.

no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?

The problem I see is that a sole trader is just not in a position to deal with vat at such a low turnover.  40k turnover minus tax and N.i plus vat doesn't make for good figures I'm sure you can see that.

Anyway it won't happen in this budget so I think it's a non issue at the moment.

[Arnold Palmer]

no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?

Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.

[davids3511]

no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?

Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.

Tell you what soupy, sack your staff, get your arse off cleanitup and go out window cleaning yourself. Vat problem solved.

[Arnold Palmer]

no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?

Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.

Tell you what soupy, sack your staff, get your arse off cleanitup and go out window cleaning yourself. Vat problem solved.

No thanks.

If the answer to the vat issue everyone who wants to grow their business faces is to stop growing or scale back, then perhaps this story has more to it than you're letting on.

[davids3511]

no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?

Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.

Tell you what soupy, sack your staff, get your arse off cleanitup and go out window cleaning yourself. Vat problem solved.

No thanks.

If the answer to the vat issue everyone who wants to grow their business faces is to stop growing or scale back, then perhaps this story has more to it than you're letting on.

There you go, you made your choice to sit on cleanitup all day. You knew what that entailed so to whinge about a level playing field seems a tad self indulgent but your normally a switched on guy so this surprises me a bit.

You, with your increased turnover and obvious spare time can out advertise any sold trader in your area, your costs per van will be lover due to economies of scale so in ways you have the advantage. That sole trader then being subject to VAT at a very low level, say 25-30k will seriously dent his ability to compete with you, you can operate at a lower cost. The 6k hit on a 30k turnover will be a serious impediment to his growth. You got in there early, what were you allowed when you setup? 50/60K?

[Stoots]

no idea how much you turnover but wouldn't you prefer the vat threshold to increase above your current turnover if you had the choice?

Yes and no. What I'd prefer is for it to be the same for me as it is for my competition.

I understand that from your position it must seem unfair... but im sure you had the benefit of a higher threshold and decided to push through it as your choice?. Would it not seem fair that others were afforded that opportunity to take the advantage of the higher limit as it stands to and then make their own choice like you did.?

[Arnold Palmer]

One thing I was unaware of was that the UK has a disproportionately high VAT threshold compared to everywhere else.

Blooming tax dodgers.

The VAT threshold for me was 50k. Year 1, maybe 2, perhaps 3, a long time ago and not a decision that we put consideration into, just something that needed to be done (as it is for more than half of you it seems).

[Dry Clean]

One thing I was unaware of was that the UK has a disproportionately high VAT threshold compared to everywhere else.

Blooming tax dodgers.

The VAT threshold for me was 50k. Year 1, maybe 2, perhaps 3, a long time ago and not a decision that we put consideration into, just something that needed to be done (as it is for more than half of you it seems).

As you know Soupy the CIU has a disproportionately high amount of bigshots or as Dal Boy would say achievers who have yet to
achieve anything, lol.
Lowering the VAT threshold to £40k isn't going to make a difference to the majority of sole traders and if they make £42k we all know where the other £2k will end up, lowering it to £20k will certainly drive a lot of guys out of the game and may drive more
work towards old hand rubbing Vultures such as yourself which is what you're hoping for, as with everything there will be winners and losers.

[Arnold Palmer]

as with everything there will be winners and losers.

That is the crux of it for me. If Hammond announced that the threshold was going to 10k tomorrow (he won't) the price of window cleaning would increase. Most (more than half) window cleaners that are not VAT registered would register and put their prices up, already registered companies would no longer be competing with (as many) non VAT registered companies and would also increase their prices.

Winners - already VAT registered companies (like me) and Karcher window vac

Losers - Customers and people at or near the current threshold.

Pie in the sky anyway because Hammond hasn't got the stones.

[Marc Stock]

Hammond is completely out of touch anyway.

If be suprised if hes still got his job by this time next year anyway. The guy is a fool as he demonstrated on tv a week back..

[Dry Clean]

as with everything there will be winners and losers.

That is the crux of it for me. If Hammond announced that the threshold was going to 10k tomorrow (he won't) the price of window cleaning would increase. Most (more than half) window cleaners that are not VAT registered would register and put their prices up, already registered companies would no longer be competing with (as many) non VAT registered companies and would also increase their prices.

Winners - already VAT registered companies (like me) and Karcher window vac

Losers - Customers and people at or near the current threshold.

Pie in the sky anyway because Hammond hasn't got the stones.

LOL, Undercutting has nothing to do with paying VAT, the prices in my area where ruined by a guy who pays vat, he makes his
money by doing a lot of work at a basic price, ( the EasyJet of window cleaning ) he just takes a smaller cut from each employee
of which he has many.
Its hard enough getting a decent return when competing with this guy at the minute without having to become 20% more expensive, you never know if he takes out all the sold traders maybe one day he or somebody like him  will be knocking on your door.

[Arnold Palmer]

LOL, Undercutting has nothing to do with paying VAT, the prices in my area where ruined by a guy who pays vat, he makes his
money by doing a lot of work at a basic price, ( the EasyJet of window cleaning ) he just takes a smaller cut from each employee
of which he has many.
Its hard enough getting a decent return when competing with this guy at the minute without having to become 20% more expensive, you never know if he takes out all the sold traders maybe one day he or somebody like him  will be knocking on your door.

I never said anything about undercutting. That is a totally separate issue.

The way I see it (and my experience is); if you charge VAT you need to find a middle ground between adding 20% to your pricing structure and competing with those that don't have to. If everyone has to, that middle ground is gone.

[Stoots]

I think the main problem with the Vat threshold is the wall that is and so all the bunching up of businesses just under it.

Surely something as simple as making the transition a steady ramp rather than a cliff edge would be the best way forward.  Introduce 1% of Vat for every 2k over the limit till you reach the 20% rate.

I'm sure most businesses want to grow beyond  but they can't cope with the hit and smashing through the vat limit that has to be done, why not make it less painfull to grow a business and more would.

[Dry Clean]

I think the main problem with the Vat threshold is the wall that is and so all the bunching up of businesses just under it.

Surely something as simple as making the transition a steady ramp rather than a cliff edge would be the best way forward.  Introduce 1% of Vat for every 2k over the limit till you reach the 20% rate.

I'm sure most businesses want to grow beyond  but they can't cope with the hit and smashing through the vat limit that has to be done, why not make it less painfull to grow a business and more would.

Adam that would only make a difference if your not going to pass the VAT on to your customers, but if your going to have to up your prices to cover the VAT its better to do it when its in the news and then at least your customers wont be blaming you for the price hike.

[Arnold Palmer]

I think the main problem with the Vat threshold is the wall that is and so all the bunching up of businesses just under it.

Surely something as simple as making the transition a steady ramp rather than a cliff edge would be the best way forward.  Introduce 1% of Vat for every 2k over the limit till you reach the 20% rate.

I'm sure most businesses want to grow beyond  but they can't cope with the hit and smashing through the vat limit that has to be done, why not make it less painfull to grow a business and more would.

Adam that would only make a difference if your not going to pass the VAT on to your customers, but if your going to have to up your prices to cover the VAT its better to do it when its in the news and then at least your customers wont be blaming you for the price hike.

It happening tomorrow aside (it won't) I still think the point is valid.

[davids3511]

Another thing for me is that if he drops it to 45k and I have to put customers up they'll know I earn over 45k. I don't really want them knowing that. Right now they think I scrape by and I like it that way.