[Dry Clean]

You do have to laugh at the mentality of the pleb, how do we make an unfair tax fairer ? I know, make people on lower earnings pay it also.
I wonder will MP's have to pay vat on their wages ?

[STEVE-UK]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

Very good point !

[Stoots]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

Very good point !

It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.

Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.

If some of you lot had half a brain...

[Steve Newres]

You do have to laugh at the mentality of the pleb, how do we make an unfair tax fairer ? I know, make people on lower earnings pay it also.
I wonder will MP's have to pay vat on their wages ?

MPs don’t sell anything (except hot air). It’s the customer that pays the VAT, not the trader. A plumber charges VAT on top because the vast majority are VAt registered. The only reason Window cleaners are forced to absorb it is bacause the majority are not VAT registered. If everyone was, it would just be passed on and people would accept it.

[Walter Mitty]

I have no plans to expand my business beyond sole trader level. I may do it one day but I can't see it.
The reason(s) given for the possible lowering of the threshold bug me. They try to pretend that it's for our benefit by ensuring we expand our businesses. Taking my money is one thing. Taking me for an idiot is another.  For me, the great irony in choosing £43k rather than £20k-ish is that it really would ensure that I don't expand my business beyond a certain point. Although I don't currently come close to £43k turnover, it would be within reach if I pushed myself a lot harder - something that I was planning to do over the next couple of years. However, I don't see the point of going beyond £42.9k now because for the sake of a few hundred or a thousand pounds, I would be leaving myself with a load of extra paperwork. In truth, £43k turnover might be pushing it a bit for me and my ageing body. It's a turnover of about £827 a week. Sure, I could manage that over a week or three, but doing it consistently over the year might be a bit much. I like that I have three hard weeks and three easy weeks in my schedule - it gives me recovery time.

[Dry Clean]

You do have to laugh at the mentality of the pleb, how do we make an unfair tax fairer ? I know, make people on lower earnings pay it also.
I wonder will MP's have to pay vat on their wages ?

MPs don’t sell anything (except hot air). It’s the customer that pays the VAT, not the trader. A plumber charges VAT on top because the vast majority are VAt registered. The only reason Window cleaners are forced to absorb it is bacause the majority are not VAT registered. If everyone was, it would just be passed on and people would accept it.

MP's sell their time and labour the same as we do, the vast majority of self employed tradesmen aren't vat registered, plus
if I worked local to yourself then I would already be charging what you are charging just as I match the vat guys where I work
now, therefore I would have to become 20% more expensive than you or take the hit.

[Steve Newres]

You do have to laugh at the mentality of the pleb, how do we make an unfair tax fairer ? I know, make people on lower earnings pay it also.
I wonder will MP's have to pay vat on their wages ?

MPs don’t sell anything (except hot air). It’s the customer that pays the VAT, not the trader. A plumber charges VAT on top because the vast majority are VAt registered. The only reason Window cleaners are forced to absorb it is bacause the majority are not VAT registered. If everyone was, it would just be passed on and people would accept it.

MP's sell their time and labour the same as we do, the vast majority of self employed tradesmen aren't vat registered, plus
if I worked local to yourself then I would already be charging what you are charging just as I match the vat guys where I work
now, therefore I would have to become 20% more expensive than you or take the hit.

The Vat guys won’t be adding the VAT. In most cases it’s absorbed to a large extent. If it happens I will be putting my prices up in most cases.

[davids3511]

He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.

The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.

And increasing NI is different how?

[Marc Stock]

Look fellas. Its a pain but if VAT the threshold does go down we are just going to lump it.

Remember you can claim back the VAT on your outgoings.

Also note there is nothing official with this lets just see what happens on Wednesday.

Its a stupid idea anyway there is no way hmrc has the resources to spend on collecting  a paltry 2bn when vat already brings in something like 120bn anyway.

Calm down fellas lets see what happens

[Arnold Palmer]

He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.

The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.

And increasing NI is different how?

NI fits that description too but they didn't back down over NI because of the admin involved.

[Og]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

Very good point !

It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.

Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.

If some of you lot had half a brain...

Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.

[davids3511]

He had to back down over ni before the last election and that was a few %, no way he'll risk 20% on 1.5m people. I can see lowering it to 40/50k but any lower is pointless when you consider the admin involved and return expected.

The outlay for the government would be negligible. Basically they turn you into a tax collector, don't pay you for it and lock you up if you get it wrong.

And increasing NI is different how?

NI fits that description too but they didn't back down over NI because of the admin involved.

The gov know well the burden it will place on small business, sub 40k it will make it pointless if you have any hope of getting a reasonable job. I don't need to tell you that, you know very well the expenses involved. I mean the admin for the public, not HMRC. They need a healthy and functioning small business sector which the will kill if they drop vat too low. Sure it may recover eventually but right now we don't need that upheaval. Ireland's vat threshold is about 37k and every established windy I know turns over about 45-50k but collects mostly cash and declares 36k ish. That's what will happen here too.

[Dry Clean]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

Very good point !

It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.

Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.

If some of you lot had half a brain...

Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.

Get a grip on yourself man, the bigger picture is legitimate self employed shiners are now going to have to get an extra 20% from their customers and be no better off, it wont make the slightest difference to the cash in hand operators or the guys willing to work for peanuts, at best we will be no better off for having more responsibility and at worst it will make it harder to compete.

[Og]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

Very good point !

It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.

Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.

If some of you lot had half a brain...

Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.

Get a grip on yourself man, the bigger picture is legitimate self employed shiners are now going to have to get an extra 20% from their customers and be no better off, it wont make the slightest difference to the cash in hand operators or the guys willing to work for peanuts, at best we will be no better off for having more responsibility and at worst it will make it harder to compete.

Calm down. I went vat this year. No dramas.

You’ll be able to add 20% to the bill and claim vat back on expenses. Profit!

If you’re competing with the riff raff cash in hand types, then perhaps you need to assess where your business is at.

[Arnold Palmer]

Calm down. I went vat this year. No dramas.

You’ll be able to add 20% to the bill and claim vat back on expenses. Profit!

If you’re competing with the riff raff cash in hand types, then perhaps you need to assess where your business is at.

Don't worry Og, these tax avoiders are just as morally bankrupt as Bono and Lewis Hamilton. 

[Dry Clean]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

Very good point !

It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.

Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.

If some of you lot had half a brain...

Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.

Get a grip on yourself man, the bigger picture is legitimate self employed shiners are now going to have to get an extra 20% from their customers and be no better off, it wont make the slightest difference to the cash in hand operators or the guys willing to work for peanuts, at best we will be no better off for having more responsibility and at worst it will make it harder to compete.

Calm down. I went vat this year. No dramas.

You’ll be able to add 20% to the bill and claim vat back on expenses. Profit!
If you’re competing with the riff raff cash in hand types, then perhaps you need to assess where your business is at.

Very good, I'm sure you where glad of the threshold before you decided to register, and yes I compete with everybody from the
cash in hand types to the quantity over price already paying vat types.
As a self employed shiner please forgive me if I don't get too excited about the vat back on expenses.

[Dry Clean]

Calm down. I went vat this year. No dramas.

You’ll be able to add 20% to the bill and claim vat back on expenses. Profit!

If you’re competing with the riff raff cash in hand types, then perhaps you need to assess where your business is at.

Don't worry Og, these tax avoiders are just as morally bankrupt as Bono and Lewis Hamilton. 

Soupy you need to stop confusing somebody who wants to pay a fair amount of tax with somebody who just doesn't want to
pay any, example, the poll tax wasn't shot down because the Scots were morally bankrupt it was shot down because it wasn't fair.

[Stoots]

It can only be good. An excuse to raise prices by 20% and loads of more work available, due to those that can't be bothered to deal with the change.

Very good point !

It's not, it's a stupid point made by someone who is vat reg and doesn't care less what happens. There's nothing good about lowering vat for a sole trader, nothing.

Loads more work will be available because people won't be bothered ? Yeh makes total sense all windys will pack up and starve because they can't be bothered dealing with it. .no what theyll do is take cash under the rug whilst guys who can just about afford to stay legit will bump their prices up be no better off and lose a load of work in the process.

If some of you lot had half a brain...

Nonsense. You’re failing to see the bigger picture. If you had half a brain, this issue wouldn’t be a concern for you.

And you are failing to see the smaller picture...I understand your viewpoint but it is only  from your view

You have to be a real thickie to believe the nonsense you have just spouted.

This isn't about how it will effect larger vat registered businesses who are seeing "the bigger picture" it's going to directly effect smaller businesses under the vat reg In a very real way. I don't need to be Einstein to do the simple figures on how it would effect my income.

[Og]

Affect or effect?

You’re suggesting I should have an objective opinion?

[Arnold Palmer]

Soupy you need to stop confusing somebody who wants to pay a fair amount of tax with somebody who just doesn't want to
pay any, example, the poll tax wasn't shot down because the Scots were morally bankrupt it was shot down because it wasn't fair.

Some don't need to charge VAT for a service but others do, how is that fair?