[Crystal-clear]

You may have saw previous post about battery well..
So I had a window cleaning company install my second pump and controller I thought sod it I'll pay and get it sorted done nice and neat but I'm left with an electrical problem
From what I have cuducted and I did go back but the electrical side of things they are limited to help and I'm annoyed as when I took the van in,my side was working and charging fine of the split relay but to break this down

New controller and pump installed quote a lot of new wiring coming from the 100ah leisure battery for the new pump and controller which is on the other side so quite a lot of doubled up wiring

The lesuire battery voltage seems to be okay at 12.3 or more but it's not putting much out for long the controllers say 11.5 11.3 and goes right the way down pretty fast but the battery seems to be 12.3
The old relay which worked fine for 6 years decided to not do anything when I got it back so they had me buy a new that new relay seems to be showing 14.20 now but when I turn the engine off the output to the controller and pumps doesn't last long a few mins before it shows very low voltage but the battery is at 12.3
Can anyone sudjest some help at the moment I wired the main battery and the window cleaning battery together im working of both but terrified incase it messes up van battery some jobs take time and I have no choice oh also with both pumps tuberd up even when both battery's are joined the voltage drops something has gone wrong with power since he added that second system as neat as it is
It's got me in a pickle
If you're anywhere 30miles of north surrey and a wizard at these sort of things you'd be a legend to help me out I've spent a lot already and really annoyed that something obviously really simple if you know what you're doing is causing such problems I only got that second system to take someone on once or twice a month  now don't know if I can work normally myself

[P @ F]

Sounds to me like either the battery needs a good bench charge or it could be the battery has had it , it will show you a high voltage until you start up a pump then you get the true voltage .

[Crystal-clear]

Sounds to me like either the battery needs a good bench charge or it could be the battery has had it , it will show you a high voltage until you start up a pump then you get the true voltage .

Thx for the reply I do have a charger that I haven't had to use for 7 years honestly I do a lot of driving why on earth would the battery be knackard over them installing that ?

[Crystal-clear]

Sounds to me like either the battery needs a good bench charge or it could be the battery has had it , it will show you a high voltage until you start up a pump then you get the true voltage .

Thx for the reply I do have a charger that I haven't had to use for 7 years honestly I do a lot of driving why on earth would the battery be knackard over them installing that ?

Bench charging it will be my first step but I feel maybe it's something else maybe all those new wires?
Currently it's giving nothing yet showing the correct voltage

[P @ F]

I know what you are saying ,  is the battery  6 years old ?
If this is the case then its just possible that the split charge has been giving you enough power back in to run the one man system , dont forget you have just doubled the amp draw , depending on what you have controllers set at the 2 pumps could be pulling as much as 12 amps an hour out of the battery .
I run mine at 80 and this draws 4 amps an hour .
I cant see that they would have wired things wrong by fitting a pump/controller .

[Crystal-clear]

I know what you are saying ,  is the battery  6 years old ?
If this is the case then its just possible that the split charge has been giving you enough power back in to run the one man system , dont forget you have just doubled the amp draw , depending on what you have controllers set at the 2 pumps could be pulling as much as 12 amps an hour out of the battery .
I run mine at 80 and this draws 4 amps an hour .
I cant see that they would have wired things wrong by fitting a pump/controller .

Yes the battery is definitely 6 years old I understand the power has doubled but for example just did a 30 min job there while the battery live is connected without the relay and it went All the way down to 11.8 now back too 14 while engine is running is it meant to show 11.8 after 30 mins bare in mind this is the vans battery connected also

You think my battery as had it ? Maybe I'll give it a charge and see first tonight if it still can't output something tells me it can't be tho that thing was solid and that relay too when plugged it seems to actually drain it more the new one works but doesn't give output to accessories
Maybe go for the charge would you say battery first suspect ?

[P @ F]

I would always suspect battery first , give it a good charge , maybe go to a battery supplier and get them to check it , drop in while you are talking that you have a backup battery elswhere and you just want to get it checked , they will be less likely to tell you it has had it then if it really hasnt ! 
 

[Spruce]

The reason why you install a split charge relay or battery isolator is that these relays only join or link the starter and leisure battery together when the engine is running and the batteries are being charged by the alternator. When the engine isn't charging then the batteries are disconnected.

When the engine is running the voltage meter should show a reading of between 13.9v and 14.5v. This merely means that the battery is being charged by the alternator, nothing more. The voltage across the leisure battery will start to drop the moment you switch the engine off.
You can only get an accurate state of charge after the battery has stood idle for 4 hours. So even although your battery is showing 12.3v  (12.4v is 50% charged and 12.2 v is 25% charged) it could be less once you allow standing time.

P&F suggests you bench charge your battery. I agree, but at 6 years old is probably needs replacing anyway as it will have reduced capacity.

It was once stated on an RV website that it would take a 750km journey for the alternator to fully recharge a flat leisure battery via a split charge relay.

If you invest in a combo amp and volt meter, you will be surprised at how much info you can get. As P&F says, an average wfp pump draws around 4.5 amps an hour. If your pump works 4 hours then that's 18 amps you have taken from your 100 amps of leisure battery. With 2 pumps running you've taken 36 amps. (If your leisure battery is only 25% charged then you can't take 36 amps from it as it only has 25amps left before its totally drained.)

My Citroen Relay 90 amp alternator will charge my leisure battery at around 8 amp after a full days work. Theoretically I need to drive for over 2 hours to replenish what 1 pump has removed.

Now things don't quite work that way. As the battery gets more fully charged it only accepts a lower rate of charge, so in reality, that battery will take much longer to charge than 2 hours. I see the battery charge drop to 1 or 2 amps after a reasonably long commute.

For me I have to bench charge my 110 amp leisure battery every 2 days to keep it fully charged. I do it every night in winter.
2 of us work from my van
.

[Crystal-clear]

The reason why you install a split charge relay or battery isolator is that these relays only join or link the starter and leisure battery together when the engine is running and the batteries are being charged by the alternator. When the engine isn't charging then the batteries are disconnected.

When the engine is running the voltage meter should show a reading of between 13.9v and 14.5v. This merely means that the battery is being charged by the alternator, nothing more. The voltage across the leisure battery will start to drop the moment you switch the engine off.
You can only get an accurate state of charge after the battery has stood idle for 4 hours. So even although your battery is showing 12.3v  (12.4v is 50% charged and 12.2 v is 25% charged) it could be less once you allow standing time.

P&F suggests you bench charge your battery. I agree, but at 6 years old is probably needs replacing anyway as it will have reduced capacity.

It was once stated on an RV website that it would take a 750km journey for the alternator to fully recharge a flat leisure battery via a split charge relay.

If you invest in a combo amp and volt meter, you will be surprised at how much info you can get. As P&F says, an average wfp pump draws around 4.5 amps an hour. If your pump works 4 hours then that's 18 amps you have taken from your 100 amps of leisure battery. With 2 pumps running you've taken 36 amps. (If your leisure battery is only 25% charged then you can't take 36 amps from it as it only has 25amps left before its totally drained.)

My Citroen Relay 90 amp alternator will charge my leisure battery at around 8 amp after a full days work. Theoretically I need to drive for over 2 hours to replenish what 1 pump has removed.

Now things don't quite work that way. As the battery gets more fully charged it only accepts a lower rate of charge, so in reality, that battery will take much longer to charge than 2 hours. I see the battery charge drop to 1 or 2 amps after a reasonably long commute.

For me I have to bench charge my 110 amp leisure battery every 2 days to keep it fully charged. I do it every night in winter.

.

Thx for this mate
Okay so you're basically saying go home charge it see what happens the relay will disconnect the van battery and only use the  leisure battery  And maybe it always had enough to power one system but now both were connected it sucked everything out of it

I'll charge it will be home soon then 2 night  see how it fairs best case charge required worst case new battery

But pls answer me just this I ain't joking 6 years never had to bench charge what so ever perfectly working on high 99 everything long jobs some 2 hours now all of a sudden it's potentially dead cos we connected second system and ran it a while to test

[Spruce]

The reason why you install a split charge relay or battery isolator is that these relays only join or link the starter and leisure battery together when the engine is running and the batteries are being charged by the alternator. When the engine isn't charging then the batteries are disconnected.

When the engine is running the voltage meter should show a reading of between 13.9v and 14.5v. This merely means that the battery is being charged by the alternator, nothing more. The voltage across the leisure battery will start to drop the moment you switch the engine off.
You can only get an accurate state of charge after the battery has stood idle for 4 hours. So even although your battery is showing 12.3v  (12.4v is 50% charged and 12.2 v is 25% charged) it could be less once you allow standing time.

P&F suggests you bench charge your battery. I agree, but at 6 years old is probably needs replacing anyway as it will have reduced capacity.

It was once stated on an RV website that it would take a 750km journey for the alternator to fully recharge a flat leisure battery via a split charge relay.

If you invest in a combo amp and volt meter, you will be surprised at how much info you can get. As P&F says, an average wfp pump draws around 4.5 amps an hour. If your pump works 4 hours then that's 18 amps you have taken from your 100 amps of leisure battery. With 2 pumps running you've taken 36 amps. (If your leisure battery is only 25% charged then you can't take 36 amps from it as it only has 25amps left before its totally drained.)

My Citroen Relay 90 amp alternator will charge my leisure battery at around 8 amp after a full days work. Theoretically I need to drive for over 2 hours to replenish what 1 pump has removed.

Now things don't quite work that way. As the battery gets more fully charged it only accepts a lower rate of charge, so in reality, that battery will take much longer to charge than 2 hours. I see the battery charge drop to 1 or 2 amps after a reasonably long commute.

For me I have to bench charge my 110 amp leisure battery every 2 days to keep it fully charged. I do it every night in winter.

.

Thx for this mate
Okay so you're basically saying go home charge it see what happens the relay will disconnect the van battery and only use the  leisure battery  And maybe it always had enough to power one system but now both were connected it sucked everything out of it

I'll charge it will be home soon then 2 night  see how it fairs best case charge required worst case new battery

But pls answer me just this I ain't joking 6 years never had to bench charge what so ever perfectly working on high 99 everything long jobs some 2 hours now all of a sudden it's potentially dead cos we connected second system and ran it a while to test

I can't answer that as I don't know how much charge you had in your battery to begin with and how much capacity your battery has left.

My van had a 115 amp hour battery which was a little over 3 years old when it failed. It was when we were cleaning an apartment complex with 29 flats. It took 2 of us around 3 hours to complete but one of the pumps died after an hour and a half and the second shortly thereafter. We ran the engine for the remainder of the clean and finished the job without further issue. We travelled the 10 miles home and the battery was virtually fully charged by the time we got back. It was reading fully charged on the volt meter after a few hours but only had a limited capacity left. So although it was a 115 amp leisure battery, it probably only had a capacity of 15 amps.

I guessing that your battery has been in a state of low charge for so long that the plates inside are well and truely sulphured up.

I have an 85amp leisure battery that came out of son in laws van when he sold it. It is 6 years old and fully charged. I am going to let a fellow windie take it out and use it to see how long it will work for. He swaps batteries over every day and whilst he is working with one charges the other.
But I believe that although the battery is an 85amp Numax and fully charged it will only last him a few hours at most.

[CleanClear]

But pls answer me just this I ain't joking 6 years never had to bench charge what so ever perfectly working on high 99 everything long jobs some 2 hours now all of a sudden it's potentially dead cos we connected second system and ran it a while to test

If you've added longer wires then you do get voltage drop. I'd say your battery has just about give up the ghost and you've just helped show it up by adding longer wires. A full charged batter should be showing 13 + volts, and maintaing it for a good bit whilst working.  12.4 volts is practically a flat battery.

[P @ F]

Yeah , wot they both said 
I wanted to type all that earlier but my fingers didnt , i basically have been in your position lots of times , each time i wouldnt have it that the battery was shot , and it was every time , only ever used £50 85amp ones , i got fed up of buying them so i looked for alteratives to charge on the go , the higher you can keep a battery charged the better , it stop the sulphur which over time sticks to the plates and does not convert back to lead and acid , this is how memory is killed off , i think you have lost ya memory !

I was faced with either split charge or solar , split was an absolute no no for me , i do 10 mile to work , move maybe 3 or 4 times then 10 miles home , so i am dabbling with solar , if the sun is out i can pull in as much as i use and not have to charge .
The fun is starting now though , British winter and solar aint easy , today no sun at all but i still managed to come home having only used 1 amp in 4 hours cleaning , 95% charged .

[Crystal-clear]

Ok guys thanks
I'm at home now been a long day had to claw back some of that money!
So the battery is now charging at home on the bench seems to be accepting quite a charge I remember when I had a duff battery years ago maybe 10 years ago it would only charge for 5 mins and show max voltage it's somewhat of a good sign that it's still charging I'll test it later and see how it fairs
It is warped tho that can't be a good sign can it Havnt had to look at it for 6 years looks like Ive been lucky
But you lot are saying a 100 amp bat fully charged even with no relay active should comfortably run everything for one day working on medium power 50 on each switch
So step one get this charged up

[Crystal-clear]

Batt took around 2 hours to charge up I'll test it out tomorrow
 its warped by the way lol never seen that before signs that it's fooked?

[rosskesava]

Just buy a new battery. They don't last forever and my experience is that if everything thing else works ok, and there is still a problem, it's the battery.

You cannot go by the charge up time. It's the discharge time that matters.

What do you mean by 'warped'?

[Don Kee]

Whats the charging rate of your bench charger that it only took 2 hours to charge?!

Most tend to trickle charge mate and would take a fair few hours to charge a decent sized leisure battery....
I would say the battery has had its day as yours sounds like it has no more capacity

[dazmond]

you ve had the battery for 6 years?ive never had a battery last that long and i bench charge mine every night!mine normally last no longer than 18 months.

just buy a new battery ya cheapskate or ill have to start calling you adam thompson!

[NWH]

Try charging for 12 odd hours

[Spruce]

If its a standard starter battery charger then Cyrstal-clear is never going to get the leisure battery fully charged up.

I agree with all you guys with the advice to just get a new battery and a good intelligent leisure battery charger.

[NWH]

I've changed the battery's time and time again before I was told to check all wiring first and check it properly,I changed fuses once and when I looked they were slightly corroded it made a huge difference for just a couple of quid.