[The Fox]

By removing the tread about a complaint about a supplier was out of order and boils down to censorship.

The person that started the thread had a valid point and had taken it to the supplier with no satisfactory outcome. This was over a 4 month period. He felt it had gone on long enough. He started a thread about the bad service. Which I feel was justified.

The supplier answered explaining why the problem occurred and he would deal with the matter.

By removing the tread you have not only caused damage to this forum but possible damage to the reputation of the supplier and the ability to defend themselves.

How many people read the tread at the beginning about the complaint, but did not see the reply from the supplier and when they came back the tread had been removed.

Now you are left with a situation that some people will be left with a negative view of the supplier which could result in loss of sales.

All that was required was the removal of the posts that got abusive not the whole tread.


These boards are the best form of advertisement for suppliers,

Every time they make a post they are advertising there products indirectly or directly.
Suppliers use the for sale section to sell second hand equipment.
By giving free advice increases there reputation for the better
There website address is left on every post they make

All the above is free advertising directly to there target customer base

  By removing the whole thread you have publicly stated that suppliers are allowed to use this forum for advertising and we the customers are only allowed to post positive comments but not allowed to criticise them when things go wrong 

[ronaldo]

K foxton.

At last somebody who speaks some sense, you should become a moderator my freind because you would have had the offensive threads removed which is exactly all that needed to be done and the thread could have been there for everyonel to see and then judge after they had read them.

Does this mean that every time a supplier is on here peddalling their stuff either directly or indirectly which by the way is nearly every day,they will have their threads deleted??? i doubt it very much.

[windows_chepstow]

By removing the tread about a complaint about a supplier was out of order and boils down to censorship.

Yes, of course it's censorship.

Suppliers can advertise on these boards, as long as they're sensible with it and contribute to the threads.

We in turn have to be sensible with our critisizm.  I've seen many threads degenerate into a 'he said', 'she said', slanging match which doesn't help anyone.  Again, in my honest opinion, if you have a problem with a supplier you should take it up with them.  You could put a post here asking for advice on how you should complain, or withdraw payment etc, giving an outline of your problems.

There's also the Office of Fair Trading too.  They're a very helpful lot and can point you in the right direction.

Mind you, there's a difference between receiving a 'shoddy service' and blatantly getting ripped off.  If anyone feels ripped off by a supplier, then we should hear about it.  But only after taking all reasonable action against the supplier.

Also, if someone purchases goods and feels they're below the minimum standard, or been mislead in some way with regards to the suppliers advertising and the failure of the equipment to match that advertising; I'm sure we'd love to hear about that also.

To be honest, I'm sympathetic to the original complaint whose post was removed, as I've heard similar stories from other people too, but 'right' is 'right' and publically slating suppliers is just WRONG; no matter who they are.

I also had an e-mail from the 'Head Honcho' of this site complaining to me for reporting the thread in question to the moderators and asking for it to be deleted.

He said he was just about to make it a 'sticky'!!!!!

But this rule should be and is applied to ALL suppliers and no-one is exempt; even the BAD ONES!

This is not my forum, I'm no longer a moderator; just my opinion based on reading many threads here, pretty much since the inception of this site.

Regards,

Tosh (the bore)

[The Fox]

As I said only the offending posts should be removed, People should be allowed to post complainants if they feel let down by suppliers.

This is a fragmented industry and if it was not for bulletin boards like this, manufactures and suppliers would be able to do what they want with the knowledge that there was no way of getting national coverage on bad service.

The original post had been about a problem that had lasted 4 months, how long should the person wait before posting his complaint on this site.

censorship in favour of manufactures and suppliers is wrong

[matt]

i am sure andrew and his freedom trolley would have been back to defend himself though, he does spend all night on here 

[Trevor Knight]

As I said only the offending posts should be removed, People should be allowed to post complainants if they feel let down by suppliers.

This is a fragmented industry and if it was not for bulletin boards like this, manufactures and suppliers would be able to do what they want with the knowledge that there was no way of getting national coverage on bad service.

The original post had been about a problem that had lasted 4 months, how long should the person wait before posting his complaint on this site.

censorship in favour of manufactures and suppliers is wrong

Like i have ALREADY said. The posting was answered and then it became a tit for tat slanging match. It became personal and abusive. How many times do we need to go over this?? Yes it is a long time to wait and it was answered by the supplier.

There is NO censorship for manufacturers or suppliers and it is encouraged that should they fail and refuse and will not refund/replace or deliver items paid for then we need to know about it.

This is wasting to much time repeating ourself and should we continue like this then I will lock this thread.

So again, just for the record, the posting is fine, its the personal and abusive slanging match that isn't!!

[Allways Cleaning]

i agree, if you think how ebay uses feedback. a very usefull way to see how a supplier is performing and giving both sides a way to explain themselves. i am shure it would have only positive results. poor service by suppliers very rarely comes to print but i would guess it is more prevelant than it would seem. so what about it shall we make it a first? can there be a section where people who buy products can air their gripes? as suppliers use this forum to promote their wares one way or another and all of the goods seem to be the best thing since sliced bread, should the purcheser have a right of reply?
only pressure from people who use this forum will make a change.
are we ready for a change?
freedom of speech, its a big step!
regards
bit of a long rant, but i belive in a fair and level playing field. not too much to ask?

[Andrew McCann]

I had nothing to defend Matt.

There is no defence for letting a customer down badly. I apologised in the thread to the person concerned offering no defence or excuses. The fault was ours. The situation has now been sorted.

As to being here all night... ahh the wonders of broadband  

I had no problem at all with the original reason for the thread. I have emailed the customer to say exactly that.

The thread then became abusive and actually somewhat sinister. I will not respond to posts like this made by persons who's identity I do not know.

I have seen many similar threads on this and other forums refering to this and that supplier.  I won't fudge or dodge any issues. In general though as has been stated they do tend to be very one-sided and often degenerate into rather unpleasant reading.

The moderators of these forums do a great job. They are not biased as far as I can see and only step in when needed.

Andrew

[Allways Cleaning]

well done andrew, a supplier who cares! and before anyone asks yes i do like andrews trolly, it works brill.
i am a satisfied customer.
regards

[The Fox]

Trevor

I totally agree any abusive posts should be removed but removing the whole thread was wrong and not needed.

Andrew put his hands up apologized and now resolved the situation. By removing the thread you denied him the opportunity to state that the situation had being sorted. You also denied his future customers the opportunity to see how he handles situations like this

Paul

I think that is a great idea


Kevin

 

[Andrew McCann]

This thread will probably be locked because in all honesty the whole point is now being laboured.

This is the 2nd thread I have seen that has originated as a direct result of the first one which was deleted.

I promise you that you would NEVER get a fair reflection of any business at all on an internet forum. This applies to any business not just an equiment supplier.

I am pretty good with computers and if I say for example wanted to slate another supplier I COULD do it.

Come on folks lets get back to what this forum is all about and get on helping each other.

If anyone feels strongly enough about an online facility to rate suppliers etc then why not set up a forum/site for that purpose alone. Along the lines of "WHICH"   By the way I worked for a long time in a very senior position in the office equipment industry.. WHICH does a publication rating machines/suppliers etc.  Do you really think it is a FAIR and unbiased?  Believe me there are many influences which can affect your WHICH rating..   

Andrew

[matt]

I had nothing to defend Matt.

There is no defence for letting a customer down badly. I apologised in the thread to the person concerned offering no defence or excuses. The fault was ours. The situation has now been sorted.

i meant the personal attacks (i didnt read them, the thread was gone by the time i returned online)

[The Fox]

Andrew

The only reason there has been 3 threads on this subject, was because the first one was removed and 1 was locked. I expect this one will be locked now

[Trevor Knight]

Trevor

I totally agree any abusive posts should be removed but removing the whole thread was wrong and not needed.

Andrew put his hands up apologized and now resolved the situation. By removing the thread you denied him the opportunity to state that the situation had being sorted. You also denied his future customers the opportunity to see how he handles situations like this

Kevin,

The post was submitted and Andrew replied, case closed.

What followed was abusive and personal and not required. Simply by just deleting the offensive posts would have just resulted in another one being posted and going round and round like we seem to be doing now?

This thread will probably be locked because in all honesty the whole point is now being laboured.

Come on folks lets get back to what this forum is all about and get on helping each other.

Andrew

Totally agree Andrew, and yes this will be locked tonight  

There is no defence for letting a customer down badly. I apologised in the thread to the person concerned offering no defence or excuses. The fault was ours. The situation has now been sorted.

Andrew

Exactly !

[The Fox]

If the abusive posts had being removed, and a post by the moderator stating that posts had being removed because they were abusive. Also stating that this would not be tolerated

This would have being sufficient.

[L plate]

I like Paul Vernons ebay idea if supplier gets custom from postings on the forum, they should be open to criticism when they deliver poor service.

If each supplier who contributes to the forum had there own page, were they are scored by us on there service on a scale say of one to ten on sales and after sales service.

If someone posts a score under a given figure they must give a reason. The supplier can then have his or her say without fuel being pored onto the fire by other posts.

This way we can all have a more balanced view on if we would like to deal with the supplier or not.
And hopefully keep there valuable input on the forum.  
It’s good to have suppliers so easy to hand. (When they get it right!!!)         

[Moderator David@stives]

If people visit this forum often and like me read every post , you will get to know who is genuine and who is not over time, that is the benefit of tuning in.

I for one would not hesitate in dealing with Andrew if i were in the market for a trolley system, I have heard too many good reports about the man to have any doubt what so ever.

You have to keep things in perspective, I have only ever seen one other post slating Andrews company and the person who started that post was one of the instigaters in the locked post.
From what i can remember it was the fact that the Freedom trolley was upgraded to the newer model and the poster was a bit upset that he thought his trolley should of been exchanged free of charge even though he bought the older version a couple of months before.

Try going to ford and see if you can get a free upgrade to the newer model for no extra charge, I think you will find they will just laugh at you.

It helps to know what has gone on beforehand, and Andrew is that much of a gentleman he did not even bring it up, even though it would have gone a long way to defend himself, but i am not a gentleman so i have brought it up.

Dave

[matt]

the idea of a ebay feedback rating seems good, BUT in practise it wont work

shall i tell you why

you will get people like David Morris just hitting the "good vote button" for Andrew, not because he knows he is a good supplier, BUT because he class's him a friend

no offence to david meant, as i am sure a load of others would do the same for andrew / glyn / craig (insert whatevery person feel your "mates" with

then you get the idiot "fanboys" who just buy EVERY item from the same supplier regardless of if you need it or not, they they inturn get "freebies" from said supplier to "praise them"

sorry to shoot holes in the idea

[Moderator David@stives]

Matt

Why mention my name , Andrew is not a friend at all , I hardly know the guy.

I just saw an injustice and helped out , the same thing  i would do for anyone else.

Did you not read my last post, i would of stayed out of it altogether had i not noticed one of the replies were due to sour grapes , then another was unsubstantiated, then later got abusive.

Just for the record i do not know Andrew i have never met him, he live 400 miles away.

Also i have never bought anything from him and cant see myself doing so in the future, I have no call for a trolley system whatsoever.

We all know about hitting buttons, similar things were tried on another forum a while back and things back fired.

Dave

[matt]

David, read my post again, you were just a example, as you were the last to post and i had just read that post

the idea of a ebay feedback rating seems good, BUT in practise it wont work

shall i tell you why

you will get people like David Morris just hitting the "good vote button" for Andrew, not because he knows he is a good supplier, BUT because he class's him a friend

no offence to david meant, as i am sure a load of others would do the same for andrew / glyn / craig (insert whatevery person feel your "mates" with

then you get the idiot "fanboys" who just buy EVERY item from the same supplier regardless of if you need it or not, they they inturn get "freebies" from said supplier to "praise them"

sorry to shoot holes in the idea

I for one would not hesitate in dealing with Andrew if i were in the market for a trolley system, I have heard too many good reports about the man to have any doubt what so ever.

Matt

Why mention my name , Andrew is not a friend at all , I hardly know the guy.

but you defend him and say what a good bloke he is




Just for the record i do not know Andrew i have never met him, he live 400 miles away.

i have never met ALOT of people i know online, but would trust them 100% and often do

Also i have never bought anything from him and cant see myself doing so in the future, I have no call for a trolley system whatsoever.

see other qoute

We all know about hitting buttons, similar things were tried on another forum a while back and things back fired.

backfired  ?? ?? ?? 1 thing it didnt do was backfire, people know the truth

Dave