[Jonny 87]

did you have your system fitted in Corby ?

I did!

How did you guess?

Really happy with the system, this is just the last piece of the puzzle. It will get sorted though I'm sure.

[deeege]

With this thread being over 2 years old, is there any cheaper alternatives on the market these days? Any other solutions other than buying the b2b charger?

[johnwillan]

Has anyone got a new van that's euro 6 compliant and has one of these daft smart alternators? If so how did you get round the split relay charger?

I've just got a 2017 Renault trafic and this has a smart alternator.

Electrics aren't my best subject, so I'm
Trying to read up and get an understanding  of how it all works.

From what I gather smart alternators don't kick out the same power that a standard alternator does (this saves on fuel and emissions)  so this means a standard smart charge relay doesn't kick in.

For the moment I've been advised to wire things up to "direct charge" so the leisure battery is connected directly to my vans battery. But of course the problem with this is that I could run down both battery's and then my van won't start.

I'm Also bench charging my battery every night, but I'm running 2 powerup reels, and two pumps so I worry power may become an issue. The company who fitted my system are working on a solution, which seems to only be a "battery to battery" charger, which are quite costly. I'm
Happy to Do it if it works though.

Might try going down the solar route if p@f's thread is anything to go by, it looks promising.

These new vans have bigger alternators which will dump vast amounts of charge into the starter battery during regenerative charging at a higher voltage.  Our leisure batteries won't tolerate that higher voltage.  The lead acid battery used on vans for years won't tolerate that voltage or current surge either, so manufacturers are using calcium batteries which, allegedly, will.

This is a good info video. Charles Sterling isn't the most enthusiastic person I've listened to but the info is 'on the button.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WADiMSJ7Yc

I wrote this for another forum recently.

Battery to Battery chargers.

Vehicles manufacturers are being forced by emission regulations to become more environmentally friendly. This has meant that there is a real possibility that vans registered after 2015 are likely to have smart alternators, stop start and regenerative charging.

A conventional Voltage Sensing Relay will not work on these vans, especially if they have regenerative charging. Regenerative charging is simply a system that recharges the battery when a vehicle is decelerating. The van’s ECU will instruct the alternator to charge the van’s starter battery until it is 80% full. It then leaves the remaining 20% to be charged when the vehicle is decelerating on a downhill, braking or slowing down for traffic lights etc. The alternator then puts a high voltage current into the battery. To accommodate this, the battery is now a calcium battery as a lead acid battery won’t tolerate the high voltages. Alternators are bigger and battery capacity has also increased; in some cases both by as much as 100% or more.

Sterling Power Products have been in the forefront of auxiliary battery charging for many years. Their pedigree is from the ambulance service and the Marine industry. According to Sterling their Battery to Battery charger does NOT take current from the starter battery for charging the leisure battery. Rather is uses alternator power to charge the leisure battery. (A ‘smart’ alternator still puts out a nominal voltage of 12.4v so it’s ready to dump a large charge into the starter batter at a moment’s notice. But 12.4v isn’t sufficient to charge the battery. So the Sterling Battery to Battery charger uses that 12.4 volts from the alternator and boosts it up to 14.4 volts which then charges the leisure battery.) There is a wiring schematic included in the pack to accommodate different charging modes. When the regenerative program activates, the battery to battery charger also regulates the voltage of the alternators output so it doesn’t damage the leisure battery. (Under regenerative charging the voltage can reach 15.5v on Ford vehicles and as high as 17.0v + on Renaults according to Sterling. Charging a lead acid battery at these voltages will cause gassing and premature lead acid leisure battery failure.)

A battery to battery charger is much more expensive than the old VSR but as demand increases then they should become cheaper to buy as ‘mass’ production reduces manufacturing costs as does manufacturer competition.

Currently the Sterling BB1230 seems a pretty good buy.

https://sterling-power.com/collections/battery-to-battery-chargers/products/2015-battery-to-battery-chargers-non-waterproof-drip-proof-ip21

At the time of writing (May 2017) they are available via an Ebay supplier for £200.00 with free postage.

These B2B chargers can also be used as replacement for the VSR on older systems and, according to Sterling, will do a better job at charging the leisure battery.  Conventional alternators are brilliant at supplying all the power a vehicle’s owner needs, eg., lights, windscreen wipers, radio etc. But they aren’t good battery chargers.

Great info - thank you.

Sterling have a clearance section on their site where you can get the 60amp B2B for around £120  with 6 months warranty.

Pure Freedom use this brand.

[Pete Thompson]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

[Simon Trapani]

Haven’t read all thread but just buy a Sterling battery to battery charger. We’ve got one in each of our 2016 Vivaros. Sometimes we ‘bench’ charge in the van from outside socket at weekends. Job done.

[Jon_Phelps]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

I have the exact same CTEK smart-pass charger and its brilliant! not had to bench charge at all. its the type of unit used in professional camper van conversions.  its worth pointing out that you need the correct thickness of cable for the distance between vehicle battery and the charger otherwise it won't do the job properly.  I also bought through 12volt planet

[Crystal-clear]

Anyone ever turn the engine on when your leisure batterys running low works a treat 

[deeege]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

How easy are these to fit (for someone who’s useless with vans electrics)?

[Frankybadboy]

just had a sterling  charger fitted my self after i had a cheaper charger fitted when i had the van new 3year s ago

the cheaper job was not up to the job and by day 3 the battery would be flat,well with the new sterling system no problems after 4 full days use

dearer yes but less stress,cost me £90 to have it fitted which i could probaly done my self but after spending that much i wanted it done right

[Jon_Phelps]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

How easy are these to fit (for someone who’s useless with vans electrics)?

the beauty of the CTEK charger is its simple design.  1 cable to run for the the van battery to the charger and then 2 off that to the battery.  simple.  I ordered a kit, so it had fuses, appropriate cable thickness and lengths. I've attached a picture of the unit and as you can see it really is fool proof.

[deeege]

My Ionics system is fitted with a CTEK SmartPass charger that is specifically designed for these new set-ups. (My van is euro 6)

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/ctek-smartpass-120-power-management-system.html

Has worked perfectly for nearly 2 years now, and I’ve never bench charged.

Apparently it also has start assist so that if your vans battery goes flat for any reason it will automatically send power from the aux battery to start the engine.

It’s not cheap, but it seems to work perfectly.

How easy are these to fit (for someone who’s useless with vans electrics)?

the beauty of the CTEK charger is its simple design.  1 cable to run for the the van battery to the charger and then 2 off that to the battery.  simple.  I ordered a kit, so it had fuses, appropriate cable thickness and lengths. I've attached a picture of the unit and as you can see it really is fool proof.

Thanks for that. I’ll order one and fit it myself then, I’m already bored of connecting my battery to charge overnight and it’s only my third day with the new van.

[Simon Trapani]

Sterling fits pretty much the same.  Need a negative to van battery in both. Or earth/ground as a shortcut to it. Sterling also has an optional temp gauge.

[matty72]

Hi there haven't read everything here but i had problem with this smart alternator, I have a split charger and was not charging enough, what i discovered was if i put my van head lights on it charges battery in back, so this is what i do, lights on every day and battery in back is fine, and safer on the roads, all good. Worth a try rather than all the other hassle and cheaper.

[Spruce]

Hi there haven't read everything here but i had problem with this smart alternator, I have a split charger and was not charging enough, what i discovered was if i put my van head lights on it charges battery in back, so this is what i do, lights on every day and battery in back is fine, and safer on the roads, all good. Worth a try rather than all the other hassle and cheaper.

This was a solution to solve some charging problems. The issue is the amount of volts these smart alternators kick out. This is why these new vans use Calcium batteries as they tolerate higher charging voltages. Higher charging voltages mean quicker charging rates. A maintenance free lead acid leisure battery is only designed to be charged at 14.2v where an open leisure battery can be charged at 14.6v.
If your smart alternator is dumping 15.5 to 17.0v into your battery on deceleration (regenerative braking), it won't take long before your leisure battery is 'toast.'

This is why a split charge relay or a voltage sensing relay isn't the answer for modern vans built from 2016 onwards if they use regenerative braking.
Other vans, such as Citroen and Peugeot use Adblue to meet emission standards. But its never clear which vehicles need a B2B charger and which don't as the new vehicle specs seem to omit these facts.
They just tend to say the they met Euro Emission standards 5 or 6 etc. but never tell us what meeting those standards mean for us.

For those of us that use Boxer/Relay/Ducato vans, we do have a good source of information from the motorhome forums. We glean stuff from them that isn't available anywhere else.

[RPCCS]

Pleased I looked this up , just bought 16 plate Vivaro so will have to use the ordinary 12v charger each night until I can afford a b2b charger

[Spruce]

Pleased I looked this up , just bought 16 plate Vivaro so will have to use the ordinary 12v charger each night until I can afford a b2b charger

The trouble is that a B2B charger may not be the complete answer to your leisure battery charging needs.

We are an industry that no one can fully cater for.  Most of us use a lot of battery energy a day and do very little mileage.  So completely recharging a battery at the end of the day on the drive home just isn't going to happen with short distances/time taken.

A motorhome will travel a long distance and then will probably connect to 'shore power' when they reach their destination.  When they get back home the van will be plugged in and left until the following weekend for example. Its the same with a caravan. 'Wild camping' might deplete the batteries charge but again the battery will be put on charge when the owner returns home.

A lead acid battery takes time to recharge. Ideally we want a lithium ion battery as it will accept a faster charge. But the cons are that they cost a fortune and special precautions need to be considered when charging to protect the alternator against overheating. There are also charging issues when the battery is cold. You can't charge a Lithium ion battery when its below freezing.

Dazmond has two 110 amph leisure batteries running a diesel heater, electric hose reel and single pump. He has a B2B charger but still 'bench' charges his batteries every night.
 
The easiest way to check how the alternator behavours is to buy one of those voltage meters that plug into the cigarette lighter.
If there are times that the alternator produces 12.2 or slightly above volts then you have a smart alternator. If on deceleration your voltage jumps up to 15.0 - 17 volts then you have regenerative braking.

In either case you will need a B2b charger. With  low voltage alternator output you will need a trigger wire to switch the B2B charger on. If your auxiliary charger socket switches off with the ignition then tapping into the feed at the socket will provide the power needed.
The downside is that if you need the ignition on to listen to your radio the B2B charger will be charging your leisure battery using the starter battery.

[RPCCS]

I will ask my dealer tomorrow if the new van has r b.

[P @ F]

I have tried it all , solar setup , using the alternator , separately then both together , I managed not to take the battery out for a bench charge for just over 12 months .
I have now gone back to the good old way of charging every day without fail on the bench and using the solar whilst at work .
Saying that though the battery that lasted 12 months was used to start the van , run a diesel heater and a pump non stop all day so it didn’t do bad for an 85 amper !

[Spruce]

I will ask my dealer tomorrow if the new van has r b.

Also ask what the maximum charging voltage is.

They probably won't be able to answer either question. Probably best to phone the technical dept of Vauxhall with reg and chassis number and ask them.

[Spruce]

I have tried it all , solar setup , using the alternator , separately then both together , I managed not to take the battery out for a bench charge for just over 12 months .
I have now gone back to the good old way of charging every day without fail on the bench and using the solar whilst at work .
Saying that though the battery that lasted 12 months was used to start the van , run a diesel heater and a pump non stop all day so it didn’t do bad for an 85 amper !

Just as Numax said - we are an industry of battery abusers. 

They will sell us batteries no problem but they won't consider a warranty if it goes wrong.