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S.A.J

  • Posts: 2162
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Last test , I PROMISE
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2017, 10:02:35 pm »
Will you stop making rubbish, shaky YouTube videos please!! They are clogging up my YouTube timeline  ;D :-*

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Last test , I PROMISE
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2017, 11:20:32 pm »
Will you stop making rubbish, shaky YouTube videos please!! They are clogging up my YouTube timeline  ;D :-*
I'll come to Swilly , i mean Plympton and shake you by the neck in a minute boyo  ;D
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

S.A.J

  • Posts: 2162
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Last test , I PROMISE
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2017, 06:14:01 pm »
Will you stop making rubbish, shaky YouTube videos please!! They are clogging up my YouTube timeline  ;D :-*
I'll come to Swilly , i mean Plympton and shake you by the neck in a minute boyo  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Last test , I PROMISE
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2017, 09:32:47 pm »
Cloudy all day today , i reckon i saw the sun proper for no more than 30 minutes , which has been a good thing to give some idea of performance for winter , i did 5 x 3  bed semis , one with connie , then 3 hours running on the school job .
The panel gave me 8 amps in , and the pump drew 15 amps out , so im short of 7 amp to be fully charged , however that was 4.30 , so i have whatever went in after and what goes in from sun up in the morning until i start work at around 10.30 .

Just had a look now and the battery is reading 12.5 volts , part of me wants to put it on the bench charger for the night , but i feel that would serve no purpose in all this testing , gonna leave it and see how it looks in the morning , im either brave or dumb.

Only one way to see if it really is viable  :-\ 
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

Spruce

  • Posts: 8452
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Last test , I PROMISE
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2017, 10:22:27 pm »
Cloudy all day today , i reckon i saw the sun proper for no more than 30 minutes , which has been a good thing to give some idea of performance for winter , i did 5 x 3  bed semis , one with connie , then 3 hours running on the school job .
The panel gave me 8 amps in , and the pump drew 15 amps out , so im short of 7 amp to be fully charged , however that was 4.30 , so i have whatever went in after and what goes in from sun up in the morning until i start work at around 10.30 .

Just had a look now and the battery is reading 12.5 volts , part of me wants to put it on the bench charger for the night , but i feel that would serve no purpose in all this testing , gonna leave it and see how it looks in the morning , im either brave or dumb.

Only one way to see if it really is viable  :-\

The battery has had long enough to settle down. 12.5v is 75% charged. So you should have enough to get you through another day if the weather is cloudy without you having to intervene.

What size (amph) leisure battery do you have?
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Cloudy day , NO VIDS !!!
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2017, 10:40:49 pm »
85 amp leisure , not over a year old .
I have thought about a 115 amp , sure it will give me the back up power in storage , but i have noticed that the solar controller only intervenes at a certain voltage range , at the most sunny part of the day is when my 85 would begin to need food ,this is when the controller would see that its time to bulk charge , i have watched it in the past few days and it does slam the amps in at this stage .

If i was to upgrade to 115 i may well miss this point as the battery would not be so hungry , its kind of like when it goes into float charge at 1 in the afternoon , you just know that the controller is probably binning off a good ammount of ampage .

What you think Spruce ?
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Cloudy day , NO VIDS !!!
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2017, 11:44:09 pm »
The volt/amp reader came yesterday, i just need to get round to installing it. But also now after watching your vids and the info you give, im reaching a so/so conclusion about getting the mppt.

On one hand it will stop me having to be watching the voltage everytime i go back to the van.......that part i like!  However every ounce of juice is put directly back into my battery which is a 110ah leisure.  From finishing anywhere from 3.30 - 5pm, but thats me finishing work not the solar panels doing their work. I understand the charge will be weaker and again in the morning, but whilst im not draining the battery, its directly charging.
So P@F  im sure you will be fine for tomorrow.

Here it was black sky all morning and on/off heavy showers as well. (For different reasons i had to finish half day today) Yet come dinner, the black dark clouds moved on and the blue sky appeared along with the brightness of the solar torch in the heavens.  Which makes up for the poor draw in the morning
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Spruce

  • Posts: 8452
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Cloudy day , NO VIDS !!!
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2017, 07:41:58 am »
85 amp leisure , not over a year old .
I have thought about a 115 amp , sure it will give me the back up power in storage , but i have noticed that the solar controller only intervenes at a certain voltage range , at the most sunny part of the day is when my 85 would begin to need food ,this is when the controller would see that its time to bulk charge , i have watched it in the past few days and it does slam the amps in at this stage .

If i was to upgrade to 115 i may well miss this point as the battery would not be so hungry , its kind of like when it goes into float charge at 1 in the afternoon , you just know that the controller is probably binning off a good ammount of ampage .

What you think Spruce ?

Its my opinion that you should just stay with what you have at the present and work with that. The reason for thinking this way is that if you start changing things too much then you will never know what works and what doesn't. You are already experiencing the moving goal posts of the weather and shorter daylight hours as we head toward winter, so adding further changes won't help with your experiment. Once you identify what you are lacking, you can then make better solution assumptions, ie., a bigger panel etc.

Having a bigger battery will give you a bigger storage cushion but it will also take longer to recharge. Then again, if the 85amp battery is fully charged over a weekend and the solar panel isn't being fully utilised then that's a shame. In summer your panel is going to fully charge that battery with excess current being shed/wasted. But as we head into winter the proverbial goal posts will keep moving backwards.

Before this last weekend you will have been 'bench' charging your battery pretty regularily.  You haven't needed to so far this week. At 75% charge you might get through today and tomorrow without having to bench charge. If you can then you will have the weekend (provided you aren't working) to let the panel recharge your battery.
You will have a pretty good idea where you are on Sunday evening. If your battery still needs some charge then you might have to bench charge it on Sunday evening. But if you aren't working on Monday then you could leave everything another day and access the situation on Monday evening.

Its just that you want to not let the battery drop to far below 12.4v which is 50% charged. But for the odd experiement it won't be the end of the world doing this. However, you obviously need to have enough power to complete a day's work.

The MPPT controller will suck out everything the panel produces in the early morning.  It will be a fractional amount, so could only be described as trickle charging. Once the panel gets into full sunlight the trickle charging will become a boost or bulk charge. Unfortunately you need that extra donge and android/apple app to see exactly what the MPPT controller is doing over the course of the full day and every day of the week.

You already know that your panel isn't going to be sufficient to fully charge your battery in winter, but what you are looking to do is supplement your daily power consumption as efficiently as possible to reduce the number of times you have to bench charge it.

I believe that your experiement will help a few others to go the solar route, but will now realise that it isn't the soul solution for all seasons. If solar works for pretty much 3 of the 4 seasons, then it could well be a wfper's next must have.

I also think that if you also had a split charge relay (which aren't expensive and depending on your van's charging system) could could have replenished that shortfall with a journey time of 1/2 and hour's driving home last night and 1/2 an hour's driving this morning.

.

 

Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Cloudy day , NO VIDS !!!
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2017, 09:23:56 pm »
Well , when i checked the battery this morning using my brave approach , it was fully charged by 9 am .
I dont want to start messing with the parts just yet because as you say , it will invalidate all i have learned so far .

So i went out fully charged to start at 10.30 , i did 4 x 4 bedders and 1 x 3 bedder , i then went on to the school for another 3 hours more or less non stop , when i got home i had these results , 10.5 amp in and 13 amp out , the weather was i would say 30% sun  70% overcast , the voltage was 12.58 volts at 5 pm  , its now 9 pm and the reading is 12.42 volts .

The thing that is bugging me is , what does it class as fully charged , 12.9 or 13.1 or what ?
My smart charger runs on the premis that the voltage is not the thing to go on , it is determined by % charged , normally after an
overnight charge it is found to be on holding charge and it registers as 100% , i think i will just pop out and put it on the bench to get a % reading , watch this space ! 
 


I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Cloudy day , NO VIDS !!!
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2017, 09:59:49 pm »
OK , its just been on the bench , it was all over the place but seetled after 5 mins , charger told me it was 12.9 volt , it was putting in 3.9 amp and was at 80 % charge .
By rights 12.4 is half baked and in the zone i dont want to be in , do i believe the bench charger or do i trust in the solar controller ?

It was a good job i went to the shed though , i just found the backpack on charge that i had forgotten about from earlier !
I think i am going to have to leave my faith in the solar , otherwise its all for nothing , wish me luck chaps , but then if its cloudy in the morning i can look forward to an early finish eh  ;D ;D ;D ;D
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

tlwcs

  • Posts: 2085
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Thinner margins !
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2017, 06:34:29 am »
Can you not keep a bench charged battery in the van as back up?
Good thread, thank you.
Tony

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Thinner margins !
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2017, 08:31:43 am »
Can you not keep a bench charged battery in the van as back up?
Good thread, thank you.
Tony
That was one of my thoughts , i can get a 28ah small battery which i can take 14ah out of without damage , that would give me at least 3 hours running as backup , maybe i will do that over the winter to cover myself
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Thinner margins !
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2017, 11:33:49 am »
Can you not keep a bench charged battery in the van as back up?
Good thread, thank you.
Tony
That was one of my thoughts , i can get a 28ah small battery which i can take 14ah out of without damage , that would give me at least 3 hours running as backup , maybe i will do that over the winter to cover myself

This is what i do just as a back up.
(But i also have a 12v 27amp battery which i use for the electric reel........so not short of any power.)
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P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Thinner margins !
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2017, 08:49:36 pm »
Oh dear , that was not supposed to happen !
Well i went out with my battery so called fully charged , i went to the school and did another 3 hour stint of continuous running , after 2 hours it was obvious that we had a problem , pressure and flow dropped right off , i went to van to find that the battery voltage was a mere 11.9 volt , i got the job done but that is no good , i cant carry on like that !

So to sum up , the battery went a full week before giving up , it had no bench charge for the full week , only 15 mins last night while i did the % test , it has been a mixed bag of weather over the week , but the battery has done 4 stints of continuous running at 3 hours each , that is not usual on my round , i think that it took a good kickin and did not really get replenished to the full .
Monday was a usual day with no 3 hour school stint to drain it , i think it was a case of 1 amp less coming in than going out , this is the ideal , but it does show that solar wont work on its own for the busy boys .
Lets not forget that with us going into winter the results wont be so good  from now on , as much as i dont want to just yet , i think that a bench charge on a Sunday night and maybe a Tuesday night could be in order , or i could take a chance and keep running as i am but get a small battery as mentioned earlier and use it for emergency power , or i could treat myself to a new 85 amp and use my current one as backup , it could well be my current 85amp has had the life benched out of it already and is not performing as it should .

Your thoughts people ?     
   
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , EPIC FAIL !!
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2017, 09:48:17 pm »
If you dont work wknds and dont use the van?? Park in the optimal position and see what its like over the wknd and see if it gets fully charged.
Or as you are doing this to test this option out, then treat yourself to a new battery so everything is set at the very best you can have for testing.  Then keep the current battery on tick over charge so not wasting any charge not being used by the new battery and so you have a spare to run off whilst one battery is on full charge from the panel whilst your working in the sun from the back up battery
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dazmond

  • Posts: 23918
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , EPIC FAIL !!
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2017, 01:47:50 pm »
my thoughts are keep it simple and trickle charge your leisure battery every night as part of your "end of day" jobs.this way your battery will last its longest as itll never discharge too much (shortening the life of your battery).i just run a cable to my van after filling up in the evening and leave it on overnight.takes 2 mins.

ok i know you have to take yours out and charge it inside but surely its only a 5 min job.dump the solar panels as you cant rely on them to charge your battery up properly.

by the way i use a smart battery charger from halfords.cost me £40.ive had it years and still works great.job done.
price higher/work harder!

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , EPIC FAIL !!
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2017, 07:08:02 pm »
my thoughts are keep it simple and trickle charge your leisure battery every night as part of your "end of day" jobs.this way your battery will last its longest as itll never discharge too much (shortening the life of your battery).i just run a cable to my van after filling up in the evening and leave it on overnight.takes 2 mins.

ok i know you have to take yours out and charge it inside but surely its only a 5 min job.dump the solar panels as you cant rely on them to charge your battery up properly.

by the way i use a smart battery charger from halfords.cost me £40.ive had it years and still works great.job done.
I bought the very same  (smart charger) from Halfords , biggest pile of poop i ever blew money on , it cooked one battery due to not switching off , and the second it charged less and less every time until it managed to kill the memory of the battery , its in the shed buried in the corner i think !
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

dazmond

  • Posts: 23918
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , EPIC FAIL !!
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2017, 12:48:18 pm »
my thoughts are keep it simple and trickle charge your leisure battery every night as part of your "end of day" jobs.this way your battery will last its longest as itll never discharge too much (shortening the life of your battery).i just run a cable to my van after filling up in the evening and leave it on overnight.takes 2 mins.

ok i know you have to take yours out and charge it inside but surely its only a 5 min job.dump the solar panels as you cant rely on them to charge your battery up properly.

by the way i use a smart battery charger from halfords.cost me £40.ive had it years and still works great.job done.
I bought the very same  (smart charger) from Halfords , biggest pile of poop i ever blew money on , it cooked one battery due to not switching off , and the second it charged less and less every time until it managed to kill the memory of the battery , its in the shed buried in the corner i think !

It must be a different one than mine then rich as mine automatically switches to trickle charge when fully charged. (Green light).ìts been brilliant.well worth £40.
price higher/work harder!

P @ F

  • Posts: 6319

Spruce

  • Posts: 8452
Re: P @ F ....Solar install , Cloudy day , NO VIDS !!!
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2017, 07:27:35 pm »
OK , its just been on the bench , it was all over the place but seetled after 5 mins , charger told me it was 12.9 volt , it was putting in 3.9 amp and was at 80 % charge .
By rights 12.4 is half baked and in the zone i dont want to be in , do i believe the bench charger or do i trust in the solar controller ?

It was a good job i went to the shed though , i just found the backpack on charge that i had forgotten about from earlier !
I think i am going to have to leave my faith in the solar , otherwise its all for nothing , wish me luck chaps , but then if its cloudy in the morning i can look forward to an early finish eh  ;D ;D ;D ;D

A leisure battery needs around 4 hours of rest before you can tell its state of charge with a voltmeter.  A fully charged leisure battery will read 12.7 to 12.9 volts. I haven't seen mine at 12.9 for a very long time now even after its been on a floating charge for the weekend.
So the only way you will get a more accurate reading is by disconnecting the panel at night and reading the battery voltage in the morning before reconnecting the solar panel.

We have just come back from a weekend away on a canal boat in the Midlands. Those adjustable solar panel brackets that were on the video I linked to earlier "cruising the cut" are suitable for narrow boats but I wouldn't be using them on a van that has much greater wind loads than any canal boat. Flip, top speed was 4mph and we averaged 2mph excluding waiting time at the locks.
 ;D
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)