[CleanClear]

anyone run one  ? I seen some of these recently quite cheap and quite new, just a few years old. I thought they looked quite smart. For a single operator how they stack up carrying a 350 litre tank ? I see they have approx 650 kg payload but my thoughts was the engine seems small 1.2 or 1.3 ltr .

[1393jason]

I have a Bipper, which I believe is the same van, but with a different badge.

I am only running from a backback, but I will be upgrading to a van mount soon. 

Nice van and easy to get parked.I know people running these with 350l tanks with no issues.

[dazmond]

why anyone whos a wfp window cleaner would want a van so small with a small payload is beyond me.theres a good chance youll be overweight with  350l in the back and all your other gear crammed in putting tremendous strain on the suspension.

[dazmond]

my connect 240 L2 is just big enough for a 500l tank and all my other gear without it feeling too cramped.936kg payload so ok weight wise first thing in the morning.its also good in tight spaces.id hate anything smaller.

[AuRavelling79]

The old shape  (55plate through 10 plate) Doblo 1.3 served me well from new in late 2006 til I sold it to Dan the Man in 2014. He still uses it now as a single operator and tows the generator and gutter vac equipment in our trailer as needed.

Its payload is 736kg and has always had a 400L tank. I would say that is the minimum size tank for a single op mainly on domestics.

IMO if you have a 350 you may be OK to start with but you will possibly run out of water as your round gets fuller and you need to do longer days.

The 2010 onward  Doblo's are even better (but physically bigger)- with a choice of 750 or 1000 kg and short or long wheelbase.

[combat1]

I have a bipper too, the professional with electrics, air con etc.
Like you use a backpack for tops and trad bottoms. Suits me well and the customers do like the downstairs trad.
The one thing I would say is that 350 is nowhere near enough for a full days wfp.
That's partly why I'm still mixing both methods.
Apart from that a great van, cheap to insure, drives fine with 350 litres, great mpg, sadly no electric seats!
Might be ok if you could nip home and top up?

[Slash]

I've had a Bipper with a 350 tank,really good but I did need to change the rear spring coils for heavy duty ones as the back went quite low, it was well within the payload but looked really low at the back, really cheap to run and no climbing in and out as everything was there when doors were open,350 liters was more than enough for a full days work if you use a trigger etc..
I only got rid of it as I like cycling and couldn't get my bike in the back hence bought another van for this and other arrangments so got shot  of both of them and got a Connect L2 240 which does everything raher than running two vans.
All in all it is ideal for a one man band 350 litres is plenty and really easy to park etc.

[CleanClear]

That will do me thanks, the 350 litres is enough for me as i downsized a few years ago, i also know my 650 kg payload is fine as i was run in for a weighbridge check last year in my Berlingo with a full tank, reel, couple of poles, A frame ladder, buckets, trolley jack etc...... so no issue on the weight side. I was just concerned over the small engine size, but if it pulls it ok then thats great.

[dazmond]

I've had a Bipper with a 350 tank,really good but I did need to change the rear spring coils for heavy duty ones as the back went quite low, it was well within the payload but looked really low at the back, really cheap to run and no climbing in and out as everything was there when doors were open,350 liters was more than enough for a full days work if you use a trigger etc..
I only got rid of it as I like cycling and couldn't get my bike in the back hence bought another van for this and other arrangments so got shot  of both of them and got a Connect L2 240 which does everything raher than running two vans.
All in all it is ideal for a one man band 350 litres is plenty and really easy to park etc.

how did you fit your poles in?cut through the bulkhead?

also id say 350L is not enough for a sole trader window cleaner who cleans nearly all his work with wfp.i used around 450L today just working 930am-330pm.(12 jobs)some of them were fairly large properties though and a few commercial.

if your trading ground floor windows then obviously a smaller tank would be ok but why would you?its quicker to wfp nearly all work(top and bottoms)IME.

[CleanClear]

also id say 350L is not enough for a sole trader window cleaner who cleans nearly all his work with wfp.i used around 450L today just working 930am-330pm.(12 jobs)some of them were fairly large properties though and a few commercial.

if your trading ground floor windows then obviously a smaller tank would be ok but why would you?its quicker to wfp nearly all work(top and bottoms)IME.

Daz, you mean 350L is not enough for you. Its enough for me and i am a sole trader and have been going for quite some time. I don't trad bottoms or anything else, i just WFP them. I do trad also , but thats mainly shops, hotels etc.... but in anycase i don't even run my tank out, hardly ever. I also do not work six hours per day, i work less . But i've evolved to work like that. I used to run round in a tranny with a 650 litre tank occasionally getting someone to help me, not for me now.

[AuRavelling79]

also id say 350L is not enough for a sole trader window cleaner who cleans nearly all his work with wfp.i used around 450L today just working 930am-330pm.(12 jobs)some of them were fairly large properties though and a few commercial.

if your trading ground floor windows then obviously a smaller tank would be ok but why would you?its quicker to wfp nearly all work(top and bottoms)IME.

Daz, you mean 350L is not enough for you. Its enough for me and i am a sole trader and have been going for quite some time. I don't trad bottoms or anything else, i just WFP them. I do trad also , but thats mainly shops, hotels etc.... but in anycase i don't even run my tank out, hardly ever. I also do not work six hours per day, i work less . But i've evolved to work like that. I used to run round in a tranny with a 650 litre tank occasionally getting someone to help me, not for me now.

Well that's why you only need 350L. Most domestic window cleaners that are wfp ...

A) Do top and bottoms
B) Do a six or seven hour day when it suits them.

If that is so then 350L will restrict them.

But a 400L will give you a bit of flexibility so that you can decide to work longer one day and take the next one off for example.

[combat1]

Understand your situation mate, could be a good van for you.
I ran out at 13.30 today! carried on with the trad pole and backflip and had a good day.
A normal day for me is 10/12 4 bedroomed officers houses at £18/20 and on a regular day I can just about last out on water.
Today I had two first cleans which took 3 backpacks each, really bad and my water was at 60 degrees!
Love the Bipper, did a lot of research first and had a list of things to check all of which it met.
Easier than a car to drive,
whatever you buy good luck.

[P @ F]

I have the Fiat Fiorino , same van , i have a 350 , wfp everything at 1.7 L a minute , thats 3 hours 45 minutes of pumping water non stop , i have run out of water once in 2 years , most days i get home with at least 100 L left .
I dont think its a case of water volume its more based on the work you do , 350 is more than enough for me !   

[dazmond]

Understand your situation mate, could be a good van for you.
I ran out at 13.30 today! carried on with the trad pole and backflip and had a good day.
A normal day for me is 10/12 4 bedroomed officers houses at £18/20 and on a regular day I can just about last out on water.
Today I had two first cleans which took 3 backpacks each, really bad and my water was at 60 degrees!
Love the Bipper, did a lot of research first and had a list of things to check all of which it met.
Easier than a car to drive,
whatever you buy good luck.

id hate that.ive never run out of water since ive had my 500l tank.

so you ended up using a trad pole for upper windows for the rest of the day?it must of slowed you down(plus the job wouldnt be of the same quality)

this is precisely why you shouldnt  buy a small van and tank unless your working 4 hour days

[P @ F]

    Its not about how much you can carry , its what you splash it on that counts , least time , least water , most money , the new way of working , i dont make any less now than i ever have , i carry 100 L less and work half the hours , hence why a 350 does what i want it to 

[dazmond]

  Its not about how much you can carry , its what you splash it on that counts , least time , least water , most money , the new way of working , i dont make any less now than i ever have , i carry 100 L less and work half the hours , hence why a 350 does what i want it to 

throw a couple of first cleans in a day on top of regular work and you could be running out of water.

ive had a 350l tank and it was frustrating at times as id be out of water some days at 2pm with an hour or twos work left in that area(no way was i resorting to trad to finish them off!) ;Did have to go back the next day.

the worst thing you can do when wfp is to try and scrimp on water.it slows you down and you run the risk of leaving spotting.

my round has evolved also with bigger accounts(more than a few years ago when i had a 350l)and 500L is just enough some days and thats working 6 or 7 hours a day.i also earn more money than i ever did in the past.

[Walter Mitty]

Sure thing, if I chose to, I could manage on 350 litres a day.  When I went through a few weeks when I had to backpack everything (van was being repaired), I managed on even less.
However, I found that I needed to slow down to the flow rate.  I think the key is, can someone manage on 350 litres a day without having to slow down?  Heck, I could possibly manage on 200 a day if I used a trickle and went very slow (on maintenance cleans, anyway).
350 should be OK if tradding ground floor, but that would slow me down too.

[combat1]

Actually Daz not much slower using trad pole, admit frames not  cleaned but in the 18 years I did it before wfp not one complaint....honest.
I did quite enjoy it, bit of variety.
In fairness my business is a bit different in that I do get loads of march out cleans as the Army is always on the move so they use a lot more water, priced higher.
You were right in a Nathan post when you said it's not the volume but the pricing correctly.

[richard groves]

I've always thought them smart little vans too.
There are benefits to a smaller van, running costs and parking if in a very busy and congested town.
I think they are workable as wfp vans if you carry minimal gear and work smart a 350 tank can be enough.
I use 1.4 mm pencil jets , univalve and flow controller. I have a 500 tank but usually come home with over a 100 of that left.
I buy my water from a mate and so I am not wasteful with it because it saves me money, time and fuel. Over the years I have had a 250, 650, 400 and 500 L tank. There is no argument that the 500 for a sole trader is the most ideal but a 350 can be enough if you were to work smart and spread your  work out evenly over the week.

[AuRavelling79]

I have the Fiat Fiorino , same van , i have a 350 , wfp everything at 1.7 L a minute , thats 3 hours 45 minutes of pumping water non stop , i have run out of water once in 2 years , most days i get home with at least 100 L left .
I dont think its a case of water volume its more based on the work you do , 350 is more than enough for me !   

Errr ... no it's not. 3 hrs and 45 minutes is 225 minutes.

225 x 1.7L per minute = 382.5 litres.

350 litres at 1.7L per minute = 205 minutes and so you only get 3 hrs 15 minutes continuously.

To actually get the full 350 litres from your tank you will have to park so that the dregs cover the outlet.

So you will need to carry a 25L barrel to ensure you can finish that last house.