[CasaDeCabra]

Simon, in the second picture what do the hoses connected to the tank lid do? Cheers Jake.

[Simon Trapani]

The bigger hose is 1" diameter and runs to the back of the van ready to connect to my transfer hose from static tank. Saves climbing in the back of the van and/or taking the lid off & getting dirt/leaves etc in it.

The smaller hose loops on itself and is a vent. The vent that comes with lids allows water to slosh out and I hate leaks.

[CleanClear]

I think we're all missing a trick here, only a few bob more, less hassle and this would do the trick ?

http://www.bimblesolar.com/offgrid/12v/12v-50w-pwm-kit?

[Spruce]

I think we're all missing a trick here, only a few bob more, less hassle and this would do the trick ?

http://www.bimblesolar.com/offgrid/12v/12v-50w-pwm-kit?

Why do you think it would do the trick CleanClear?

[CleanClear]

I think we're all missing a trick here, only a few bob more, less hassle and this would do the trick ?

http://www.bimblesolar.com/offgrid/12v/12v-50w-pwm-kit?

Why do you think it would do the trick CleanClear?

I've been doing a bit of reading ,not saying i'm correct, but it has just piqued my interest.... and them solar panel /charging set ups are enaballing people to live off grid on 12 volt batteries. I'm lost with amps/watts etc... but sureley one charging all the time its daylight would do a simple set up ? Just a thought.

[CasaDeCabra]

The bigger hose is 1" diameter and runs to the back of the van ready to connect to my transfer hose from static tank. Saves climbing in the back of the van and/or taking the lid off & getting dirt/leaves etc in it.

The smaller hose loops on itself and is a vent. The vent that comes with lids allows water to slosh out and I hate leaks.

cheers

[Spruce]

I think we're all missing a trick here, only a few bob more, less hassle and this would do the trick ?

http://www.bimblesolar.com/offgrid/12v/12v-50w-pwm-kit?

Why do you think it would do the trick CleanClear?

I've been doing a bit of reading ,not saying i'm correct, but it has just piqued my interest.... and them solar panel /charging set ups are enaballing people to live off grid on 12 volt batteries. I'm lost with amps/watts etc... but sureley one charging all the time its daylight would do a simple set up ? Just a thought.

If you go onto forums that are frequented by motorhome/rv users you will find lots of experiences regarding solar charging.

In the UK a 50 watt solar panel isn't going to do much to recharge our leisure batteries as we are a high power demand or power hungry  industry. In fact, most motorhome owners with solar panels on the roof of their vans can't guarantee that their solar panels will keep their batteries fully charged whilst in storage during winter.

Most rv users experience a solar panel output of around a 1/4 to a 1/3 of the panels specification. So a 50 watt panel in near perfect conditions will output 4 amps. If its only 1 amp, then that's not going to go far.

Whilst certain parts of the country get more sunlight than others our main issue is that the panel has to be tilted to catch as much of the sun's rays as possible, especially during winter.
So if you have a flat panel on the roof then they need to be reasonably big ones. I saw a photo of the police backup van that had 2 x 140 watt panels on the roof.

The other issue is that that kit you referred to has a PWM controller. We need a good quality MPPT controller to harness the most from the panel which a PWM controller doesn't do.

The panel needs to put back around 15 - 20 amps of battery power for each pump used a day.  More and more windies are now using other power hungry gadgets such as electric hose reels which also adds to battery drain.
 
So I see solar as an additional add on, but it isn't the total solution. For us, the total solution is overnight charging, but it my not always be the easiest to implement.

If I remember correctly Nathankaye on here uses solar panels but I think he also has to use a battery charger in the winter time.

Here's an interesting read
http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/cat/165/choosing-a-solar-panel

http://www.selectsolar.co.uk/cat/31/solar-charge-controllers-12v-up-to-450w


 

[Dave Anderson]

Ok you sparky type chaps.... whats so coolio about the CTEK chargers in your opinion I have read the advertising splurge .... I will have 2 batteries in the van a 100amp/h & a 60amp/h battery... Am not going to do split charge and that type of stuff.... am able to bench charge every day  Any advice would be most welcome.

[nathankaye]

I think we're all missing a trick here, only a few bob more, less hassle and this would do the trick ?

http://www.bimblesolar.com/offgrid/12v/12v-50w-pwm-kit?

Why do you think it would do the trick CleanClear?

I've been doing a bit of reading ,not saying i'm correct, but it has just piqued my interest.... and them solar panel /charging set ups are enaballing people to live off grid on 12 volt batteries. I'm lost with amps/watts etc... but sureley one charging all the time its daylight would do a simple set up ? Just a thought.

If you go onto forums that are frequented by motorhome/rv users you will find lots of experiences regarding solar charging.

In the UK a 50 watt solar panel isn't going to do much to recharge our leisure batteries as we are a high power demand or power hungry  industry. In fact, most motorhome owners with solar panels on the roof of their vans can't guarantee that their solar panels will keep their batteries fully charged whilst in storage during winter.

Most rv users experience a solar panel output of around a 1/4 to a 1/3 of the panels specification. So a 50 watt panel in near perfect conditions will output 4 amps. If its only 1 amp, then that's not going to go far.

Whilst certain parts of the country get more sunlight than others our main issue is that the panel has to be tilted to catch as much of the sun's rays as possible, especially during winter.
So if you have a flat panel on the roof then they need to be reasonably big ones. I saw a photo of the police backup van that had 2 x 120 watt panels on the roof.

The other issue is that that kit you referred to has a PWM controller. We need a good quality MPPT controller to harness the most from the panel which a PWM controller doesn't do.

The panel needs to put back around 15 - 20 amps of battery power for each pump used a day.  More and more windies are now using other power hungry gadgets such as electric hose reels which also adds to battery drain.
 
So I see solar as an additional add on, but it isn't the total solution. For us, the total solution is overnight charging, but it my not always be the easiest to implement.

If I remember correctly Nathankaye on here uses solar panels but I think he also has to use a battery charger in the winter time.

Thats right. I have a fitted panal on top of the van which i still need to refit n tilt and a smaller one which isnt fitted so i can sit it in any direction inorder to face it directly at the sun for the added boost.
The advantage of the permanent one is that it catches 24/7 (you know what i mean). So for instance weve had rain here for last 2 days and my battery got down to 12.7v by end of my working hours. But by start of the next day its back up to 13.3v. But i dont use a control box, its connected directly to my battery, one way flow. If my battery reads 14v i disconnect till its drained back down to 12.9 and reconnect.
Come thick of winter i will have to do a couple of bench charges. Periodically i will do so in summer as well, but thats mostly for battery maintenance. (Not sure if it actually helps or not but i like to think a deep mains charge does)

[Spruce]

Ok you sparky type chaps.... whats so coolio about the CTEK chargers in your opinion I have read the advertising splurge .... I will have 2 batteries in the van a 100amp/h & a 60amp/h battery... Am not going down the split charge and that type of stuff.... am able to bench charge every day  Any advice would be most welcome.

CTEK chargers have been around a long time and have developed themselves a good name in the field. They are fairly expensive but they do apparently come with an additional provision to boost charge a battery at a slightly higher voltage than normal. (This shouldn't be done every time though. The instructions should tell you more about that.)

You have to be aware though that the average CTEK charger in our price range has a charging  of around 5 amps. The one that does 7 amps costs £107.95 in the UK. With 2 batteries being charged every night my personal opinion is that it won't charge fast enough unless you use very little current a day. But if you are considering electric hose reels, then you need a bigger charger.

CTEK do them but at £129.95 they must be smoking wacky weed.

I use a 10amp Numax leisure battery charger and apart from having to replace the cooling fan, the unit is about 8 years old. For me that would be big enough to charge the 60 amp battery first, let it cool down, and then put it on the 100 amp overnight.

This is the one I use

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-Leisure-Battery-Charger-10A-P6127.html

[Dave Anderson]

Spruce... thanks for the info....I  think I need a bigger workhorse battery charger...thanks for clarifying the waters 

[Simon Trapani]

Just thought I'd update and resurrect this thread for anyone interested, mainly Spruce I'm guessing. I replaced the anderson connectors & battery charger just for neatness & compactness. I had started leaving a ctek mxs 5.0 charger velcroed in each vehicle with the ctek ring eyelets. Then I discovered the led eyelets from ctek that give you a very quick indication of the charge state of the battery. All I had to do was run a home made extension to each van through the back van doors to my outside socket. Nice & simple. These are the led eyelets: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002MT8S7E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My battery has not been lasting as long lately so not holding charge. I've bought this battery now: https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-130ah-leoch-adventurer-agm-leisure-battery-lagm130/ but upgraded the charger to a ctek mxs 7.0 for the bigger battery. I'm also limited by the physical dimensions of the battery so it will fit in the Pure Freedom battery tray.

I take back what I've said in other threads as although I've got the Sterling battery to battery charger I think I still need to bench charge more regularly as Spruce & others have frequently said because of my lack of mileage. You're right, I wasn't putting enough back into the battery. I'm gonna try look after this one better by bench charging in situ much more often. Almost every night in fact. I'm also hoping the bigger ampage (130 now compared to 110 before)  will allow me to use up less of it's deep cycles by not running it down too low. Hopefully I'll stay more around the 80% mark. It's very rare we're both working out of one van so usually just using the one pump. I also found this page useful: https://deepcyclebatterystore.com/how-to-maintain-batteries/ (not trying to tell you how to suck eggs Spruce & others) It just seemed to explain it to me very well.

[Spruce]

Just thought I'd update and resurrect this thread for anyone interested, mainly Spruce I'm guessing. I replaced the anderson connectors & battery charger just for neatness & compactness. I had started leaving a ctek mxs 5.0 charger velcroed in each vehicle with the ctek ring eyelets. Then I discovered the led eyelets from ctek that give you a very quick indication of the charge state of the battery. All I had to do was run a home made extension to each van through the back van doors to my outside socket. Nice & simple. These are the led eyelets: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002MT8S7E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My battery has not been lasting as long lately so not holding charge. I've bought this battery now: https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-130ah-leoch-adventurer-agm-leisure-battery-lagm130/ but upgraded the charger to a ctek mxs 7.0 for the bigger battery. I'm also limited by the physical dimensions of the battery so it will fit in the Pure Freedom battery tray.

I take back what I've said in other threads as although I've got the Sterling battery to battery charger I think I still need to bench charge more regularly as Spruce & others have frequently said because of my lack of mileage. You're right, I wasn't putting enough back into the battery. I'm gonna try look after this one better by bench charging in situ much more often. Almost every night in fact. I'm also hoping the bigger ampage (130 now compared to 110 before)  will allow me to use up less of it's deep cycles by not running it down too low. Hopefully I'll stay more around the 80% mark. It's very rare we're both working out of one van so usually just using the one pump. I also found this page useful: https://deepcyclebatterystore.com/how-to-maintain-batteries/ (not trying to tell you how to suck eggs Spruce & others) It just seemed to explain it to me very well.

I think that the link you included has some very good info for us all. Thank you for linking it. I will take a copy of it for future reference.

There will be a lot of info that is probably not applicable to us as window cleaners. For example, most of our leisure battery are 'sealed' maintenance free so the section on using a battery hydrometer wouldn't apply to most of us. Even in the motor industry where flooded starter batteries are still used, most younger motor mechanics won't even know what a hydrometer is, let alone how to use one. In our day and age if a battery isn't working but is receiving the right voltage and amperage charge then the battery needs replacing. It's become classed as a throw away item like most other manufactured product is.

It also does amaze me is how battery experts sometimes just don't agree on the basics:
For example here is a quote from the article.

When checking the batteries, (at rest) use these “Voltage Landmarks”.

12.6 volts = 100%
12.5 volts = 70%
12.3 volts = 50%
11.4 volts = 20%

A set of leisure battery maintenance articles targeted toward the local leisure market uses these figures.

12.7V or over  = 100%
12.5V  = 75%
12.4V  = 50%
12.2V  = 25%
12V or under  = Discharged

My experience has shown that my leisure battery reads between 12.8 and 12.9v when fully charged and rested over night.
The remainder of the charge level voltages on the local guide fit with more than the guide in this Canadian article. I have a Victron battery monitor that shows voltage along with state of charge as a percentage.
Do they use different battery technology over there to account for the colder winter temperatures?

Many equipment suppliers do use the 10.5v cut off point with a battery under load. This is a feature of Spring controllers (that can be over-ridden) and Webasto diesel water and air heaters. A battery that's voltage drops to 10.5v under load is flat.

Thanks again for the link.

[mac74]

I used to use a ctek msx 5.0 (amp) - But i upgraded to a more powerful victron energy blue smart 15 amp charger (link below). I done this on the advice of several battery guru's on a motorhome forum, as they explained that a 5amp charger will struggle to put that final charge capacity into say a 110ah batt, as its that final 10% where the lower amp chargers will struggle do it, meaning you would lose some capacity on the bench charge, even though the batt will read full.  I use a 100amp Yuasa EFB, bench charged & rotated daily with another one.
Ive also read good things on sterling chargers, but they are a bit pricey.

https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/victron-energy-blue-smart-ip65-charger-12-151-230v-uk-bpc121531024r/

[Simon Trapani]

I just counted 55 different Victron chargers on that website you linked! 

[robert mitchell]

Ok you sparky type chaps.... whats so coolio about the CTEK chargers in your opinion I have read the advertising splurge .... I will have 2 batteries in the van a 100amp/h & a 60amp/h battery... Am not going down the split charge and that type of stuff.... am able to bench charge every day  Any advice would be most welcome.

CTEK chargers have been around a long time and have developed themselves a good name in the field. They are fairly expensive but they do apparently come with an additional provision to boost charge a battery at a slightly higher voltage than normal. (This shouldn't be done every time though. The instructions should tell you more about that.)

You have to be aware though that the average CTEK charger in our price range has a charging  of around 5 amps. The one that does 7 amps costs £107.95 in the UK. With 2 batteries being charged every night my personal opinion is that it won't charge fast enough unless you use very little current a day. But if you are considering electric hose reels, then you need a bigger charger.

CTEK do them but at £129.95 they must be smoking wacky weed.

I use a 10amp Numax leisure battery charger and apart from having to replace the cooling fan, the unit is about 8 years old. For me that would be big enough to charge the 60 amp battery first, let it cool down, and then put it on the 100 amp overnight.

This is the one I use

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-Leisure-Battery-Charger-10A-P6127.html

Spruce ,

My ionics system has a built in Ctex mx5 charger and i have two large batteries in it running a diesel hot system , the pump and the electric reel , it charges fully overnight without issue .

The system originally only had one battery but i added a second.

[mac74]

I just counted 55 different Victron chargers on that website you linked! 

Sorry mate, when i click on it, it goes straight on to the one i use? Ok try and copy then paste the below into the search bar, should come up then........   Good luck m
Victron Energy Blue Smart IP65 Charger 12/15(1) 230V UK – BPC121531024R
£143.85

[Spruce]

Ok you sparky type chaps.... whats so coolio about the CTEK chargers in your opinion I have read the advertising splurge .... I will have 2 batteries in the van a 100amp/h & a 60amp/h battery... Am not going down the split charge and that type of stuff.... am able to bench charge every day  Any advice would be most welcome.

CTEK chargers have been around a long time and have developed themselves a good name in the field. They are fairly expensive but they do apparently come with an additional provision to boost charge a battery at a slightly higher voltage than normal. (This shouldn't be done every time though. The instructions should tell you more about that.)

You have to be aware though that the average CTEK charger in our price range has a charging  of around 5 amps. The one that does 7 amps costs £107.95 in the UK. With 2 batteries being charged every night my personal opinion is that it won't charge fast enough unless you use very little current a day. But if you are considering electric hose reels, then you need a bigger charger.

CTEK do them but at £129.95 they must be smoking wacky weed.

I use a 10amp Numax leisure battery charger and apart from having to replace the cooling fan, the unit is about 8 years old. For me that would be big enough to charge the 60 amp battery first, let it cool down, and then put it on the 100 amp overnight.

This is the one I use

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-Leisure-Battery-Charger-10A-P6127.html

Spruce ,

My ionics system has a built in Ctex mx5 charger and i have two large batteries in it running a diesel hot system , the pump and the electric reel , it charges fully overnight without issue .

The system originally only had one battery but i added a second.

If you don't let the batteries get too low on charge then 5 amps will recharge them.  The box my 10amp Numax charger came in has 'up to a maximum of 165amp battery.'

If you have drawn 100 amps from both your batteries before recharging, a 5 amp charger will take longer than 20 hours to recharge that bank. If you put the batteries on charge at 5 o'clock they won't be recharged when you start work the following morning. But if your charger only has to replace 20 amps then those batteries will be fully recharged in the morning.

Its this simple reason why Grippa supplied Dazmond with a 20 amp charger when they added a second 110amp leisure battery to his system.
Because Dazmond charges his batteries every night he doesn't need that 20 amp charger. But if he didn't then Grippa are covering all the bases.

Many years ago my late brother in law asked us to drive his motor home through to the supplier to be serviced as he couldn't do it due to his illness. The starter battery on his motorhome was flat so he gave me instructions to use his old battery charger. It had 2 settings, fast charge and a trickle charge of 1amp.
He insisted that I put the battery on the 1amp charge the day before we were to drive it.  I told him there and then that the 70amp starter battery wouldn't be charged enough.

In his chemo brain he couldn't see it. The next day his van battery was still flat. I ended up jump starting it so we could take it.
 

[Simon Trapani]

I just counted 55 different Victron chargers on that website you linked! 

Sorry mate, when i click on it, it goes straight on to the one i use? Ok try and copy then paste the below into the search bar, should come up then........   Good luck m
Victron Energy Blue Smart IP65 Charger 12/15(1) 230V UK – BPC121531024R
£143.85

Yeh the link does work thanks. I was just looking at all their other Victron chargers out of interest.  I don’t understand why so many models though.

I’m happy with the ctek’s at the moment. The app looks good though on the Victron’s.  Save you going out to check if charged.

 I like to unplug as soon as it goes to float mode. If not I’m worried I’ll forget & drive off with the extension lead still attached. I tried Spruce’s idea of tying a cloth to the steering wheel to remind me but I also forgot to do that! Think I got dementia lol.

[mac74]

I just counted 55 different Victron chargers on that website you linked! 

Sorry mate, when i click on it, it goes straight on to the one i use? Ok try and copy then paste the below into the search bar, should come up then........   Good luck m
Victron Energy Blue Smart IP65 Charger 12/15(1) 230V UK – BPC121531024R
£143.85

Yeh the link does work thanks. I was just looking at all their other Victron chargers out of interest.  I don’t understand why so many models though.

I’m happy with the ctek’s at the moment. The app looks good though on the Victron’s.  Save you going out to check if charged.

 I like to unplug as soon as it goes to float mode. If not I’m worried I’ll forget & drive off with the extension lead still attached. I tried Spruce’s idea of tying a cloth to the steering wheel to remind me but I also forgot to do that! Think I got dementia lol.

"The app looks good though on the Victron’s.  Save you going out to check if charged"


TBH this APP is nothing that special really, UNLESS you are less than 10m away, and in line of sight for the bluetooth charge info to work properly, and 4 me im out of that 10m bluetooth range. Cheers m