[rosskesava]

Today as we are well ahead of this weeks commercial work, I thought I'd go off on my own and do some resindentual customer's windows who got missed this week for one reason or another.

The first one was the fronts of a large first floor flat. So I knocked etc and done them with wfp. The lady from the ground floor flat complained as all the water had run down the wall over her windows along with all the muck that was on the walls. After 10 minutes I agreed to do her windows for nothing. The lady upstairs comes down to pay me and finds out I've done a free clean downstairs and then refuses to pay me.

30 minutes later I drive off having cleaned 2 lots of windows for nothing and lost 1 customer and wasted an hour of my time.

The next job the bloke refuses to allow me to do his windows with wfp because he thinks the method and quality is cr*p. His place is too dangerous to do with ladders so another customer lost.

3 jobs on and another customer says last time the water was running down her walls on the inside so another customer lost.

Then yet another customer kicks up a stink about wfp forgetting the price given was because to do his place with ladders would tripple the price because it is all arkward. So another customer lost.

Monday this week, this bloke started getting 'out of control' because he was in a flat below the one we were doing and the water from upstairs had gone over his steps that go up from his basement flat and when he went out, he had slipped over and apart from hurting himself, his clothes were a mess with muddy water all up his back. He got so angry that he started to get to that 'I'm going to thump you' stage so I had to sit on him untill he calmed down. I actually felt for him. He was the victim.

I am fed up with complaints and problems with wfp. It is safer, of that there is no question but when we only used ladders we never had a single complaint. Now with wfp it is frequent and I'm fed up with it to the back teeth. The others I work with feel exactly the same.



So, apart from a selected few customers, we've ditched a whole pile of resindentual customer (83 in all) who we can only do wfp and do I feel happier or what?

We'll still be using wfp for commercial work (as well as traditional methods) but to get rid of the moans about wfp - what a relief.

Am I the only one who gets wfp complaints?

[Easyclean Windows]

Sorry to hear of your bad fortune.....But i have not had one complaint in three years.

Last week i did 10 mixed houses and apartments and they were so pleased with the revery *friendly* persons and H&s i have now been given the contract from the building company to clean 300 mixed units for the next 2 years.

I also do large mansions for f1 and rally persons and have been with them for longer than any other window cleaner.

[rosskesava]

We don't have so much of a problem with largish detched places. Those we have kept.

I don't know what we've done to warrant so many complaints. We just turn up and do their windows and the complaints follow. Since using wfp we've only had one week without complaints but bearing in mind we do about 200 jobs a week, I suppose complaints are inevitable.

I'm just fed up with the hassle.

[abacus]

Hi rosskesava
 when I first started I felt the same way as you lots of complaints    but after two or three months I lost only half a dozen customers no complains now  I even had a few after three years didn't realize I cleaned with wfp the rest love it
Sorry to hear you went to such drastic lengths are you sure you can't give a bit longer and see if it pans out better? if not
e-mail  me the customers you dont want I'll do them with wfp I'm only up the road from you and I'll send you anyone who insist on trad only     but I usually convert them in the end.

regards grant

[geoffreyspecht]

ive gone back to using ladders as well on domestic work

[P @ F]

I cannot remember the last time i was on a ladder , and for that matter i cant remember the last time i had a complaint about wfp , Ross i know its harsh but bin them all , why should their windows be more important than your life , i let myself get walked on for the first 18 months but now i am busy enough to tell anybody i want to go P*** UP A ROPE .
I dont care what they think as you see , in a minute they wont have a choice but to accept wfp , if the law comes in i will drop anybody working off a ladder in it , some of you might not like my last comment , well then get wfp !

 Rich   P @ F  

[Tim Morton]

That's too bad, 80% of all my wfp work is domestic, and all of my customers that I've talked to love it, they say that the windows are really gleaming and they love the frames being cleaned each time.

I suspect that as you've found out, wfp on flats does not work out as well unless you have the whole building to do.

I think my customers are pleased that they get their frames done for no extra charge, when they think they're getting something extra for nothing they tend to like it, that's what I put it down to anyway.

Tim

[pjulk]

Hi rosskesava

It seems you do a lot of flats and these are the one's that are giving you problems.
I do some flats and have a few where i don't clean the downstairs but i clean the one above for these i use a ladder.

I cleaned a customer today and it was only her second clean large farm house and she said her windows have never been so clean.

For me its now WFP or find someone else. I do have a few which i do by ladders but im not taking no more of those on.

Instead of getting cheesed of with WFP why not make it work for you by looking for WFP freindly house's and forget the flats they always seem to moan i had it also on flats.

Paul

[mark dew]

No ross you aren't the only one.
I haven't had a complaint for over a month now. woooohoooooo
I have lost or got rid of 6 due to wfp and have given away a grands worth (per year) of work to a couple of young lads i know. Indirectly due to wfp but more because they are under a tenner each.
I'm only in my 3 month now but i don't have that confidence of walking away from a job knowing its done well, since i use wfp. Not like i had trad anyway.
Some people just can't grasp the concept of it though. I did a job on tuesday 3rd time wfp. Overjoyed with the finish of the windows. Always mentions it.
Tuesday she said, "though it's a shame you don't clean the sills anymore."
"I do. Everytime..... What do you mean? Are they dirty?"
"Oh no they are always wet when you have done and i have to get a cloth and dry them after you've gone."
She believes because the sills are wet they are dirty. But she is happy to judge the windows after they have dried out. Go figure??

Life was much simpler with residential customers when i was trad.
It's just a case of keep weeding them out. It will become simpler again i believe.

[Paul Coleman]

No ross you aren't the only one.
I haven't had a complaint for over a month now. woooohoooooo
I have lost or got rid of 6 due to wfp and have given away a grands worth (per year) of work to a couple of young lads i know. Indirectly due to wfp but more because they are under a tenner each.
I'm only in my 3 month now but i don't have that confidence of walking away from a job knowing its done well, since i use wfp. Not like i had trad anyway.
Some people just can't grasp the concept of it though. I did a job on tuesday 3rd time wfp. Overjoyed with the finish of the windows. Always mentions it.
Tuesday she said, "though it's a shame you don't clean the sills anymore."
"I do. Everytime..... What do you mean? Are they dirty?"
"Oh no they are always wet when you have done and i have to get a cloth and dry them after you've gone."
She believes because the sills are wet they are dirty. But she is happy to judge the windows after they have dried out. Go figure??

Life was much simpler with residential customers when i was trad.
It's just a case of keep weeding them out. It will become simpler again i believe.

I take your point Mark.  Initially there were quite a few grumbles from my customers and a few cancellations.  Some jobs I walked away from because the moaning was getting me down.  However, a few weeks ago the complaints dred up (until yesterday when I dropped one).  The cancellations have been fairly few.  Some I've passed on and others I've walked away from without passing them on (I wouldn't wish them on another window cleaner).  In total, there has probably been about a 5% turnaround in my work.  I'm OK with that because I would rather have a customer who is happy with the way I work than retain customers who keep moaning.  please note that, apart from a very few jobs, the moaning has been about method used rather than the finished product.  Also, when there has been some moaning after the first clean, this has stopped after I have got past the second or third clean.  Although I did put out flyers saying that it may take two or three cleans to get a top quality finish, it appears that many were still expecting perfection on the first clean.

[Alex Gardiner]

We Have been WFP for 5 years now, we have only lost 1 residential customer from over 400 customers in that time.

All of our customers know that we will not go back to ladders regardless so the one customer we did lose (£12) went and found herself a new window cleaner before cancelling us (of course she has forgotten that he will be unable to do several windows over her glass conservatory).

We have had a couple of complaints in the 5 years and we have held our hands up and taken the blame for poor rinsing etc, (there is always a reason for a poor result and that reason is nearly always you the operator).

Flats can be difficult, it all depends on the people.

Alex

[Sir Squeaky]

I suggest Ross does it his way.
If it's not working for him, and he's not going to re-start dangerous stuff, then he's doing the right thing.

Ditch them, train them, tell them :......We're supposed to be providing a service to suit the customer.

...if the law comes in i will drop anybody working off a ladder in it , some of you might not like my last comment , well then get wfp !

Why? What's your problem with someone else doing your job?
Why so bitter?

"Get wfp" No thankyou. Ask Ross.

[Paul Coleman]

I suggest Ross does it his way.
If it's not working for him, and he's not going to re-start dangerous stuff, then he's doing the right thing.

Ditch them, train them, tell them :......We're supposed to be providing a service to suit the customer.

...if the law comes in i will drop anybody working off a ladder in it , some of you might not like my last comment , well then get wfp !

Why? What's your problem with someone else doing your job?
Why so bitter?

"Get wfp" No thankyou. Ask Ross.

I don't agree with dropping other people in it either.  Unfortunately Squeaky, if what I heard is correct in that the HSE will enforce this "no working at height if there is an alternative" from April '07, it may become increasingly difficult to justify using a ladder.  I think they are going too far.  Compulsory ladder training would have been enough IMO.  I know us more experienced window cleaners would feel a bit like grandma being taught to suck eggs, but I suppose most of us would have learned something from such a course.

[P @ F]

I knew you'd see that squeaky !
Reading it again it does look a bit high horse , perhaps i should have said i would drop any of the fair weather beer money brigade in it , i hate em !

     Rich   P @ F   

[abacus]

Hi
I'm not useually so far behind the times and I have heard about the h&s banning ladder wc altogether if the accidents dont drop ( not looking to good with three wc deaths in five months)but  I have not heard about them enforcing the present rule could someone bring me up to speed on this? I must say I cannot see the point in bringing in a safty rule the not enforcing it most ladder wc I see in my area have changed very little. Ladders on pavement no signs ladders on grass and earth no levelers on slops what is the point of h&s to prosicute in avent of death a little late then

[chris@c.m.s]

The way I'm seeing things at the moment is that there is little choice if you want to comply with health and safety regs, even squeeky may have to change eventually he may fight to the end but then so did shopkeepers with lbs vs kilos and who won, I've been wfp for a very short time and only converted about 25% of my customers, I only have a small round but even so I'm introducing wfp slowly, most 3 bed houses I'm using 25ltrs on first wfp cleans OTT maybe  but I have the time and its important to me I dont loose a customer through bad workmanship, at the moment I'm collecting payment about 2 days after the clean and everyone is happy so far, I did have a customer ask me how I felt about wfp and I had to confess I dont like it and for some reason I actually prefer going up a ladder, however having the equiptment to do the job ladderless and no reasonable excuse not to use a safer option I would be in breach of h&s regs, as for flats well if wfps going to drip on the flat below that is a reasonable excuse for doing it traditional I have flats that have to be done that way if they wasnt safe before wfp then why do them in the first place.     

[Terry_Burrows]

thats why we never did touch houses or flats only did comercial
to much hassle with the normal pepole

[rosskesava]

Hi Grant

e-mail  me the customers you dont want I'll do them with wfp I'm only up the road from you and I'll send you anyone who insist on trad only     but I usually convert them in the end.

I wish I read that sooner as we have now given all the work to another wfp'r and all the 'change of window cleaner' letters have all been posted.

thats why we never did touch houses or flats only did comercial
to much hassle with the normal pepole

I totally agree with that. If I had my way all we'd do is commercial work. It's simpler, easier and virtually hassle free. On top of that, it's easier to organise and the customer is always in.

[abacus]

Hi ross 
what is the name of your company will I have seen you about?
call me anytime you wish to unload domestics always looking for more or if you just need a hand now and again always happy to help if I can

best regards grant
E-mail abacus@toucansurf.com

[rosskesava]

Cheers for that Grant. I will seriously bear that in mind. You may suddenly hear from me one day but maybe not for a good few months.

We don't have a sign written van as such with our name on it but we drive around in a converted silver hearse with a crow on top. On the side all it says is 'window cleaners' and 'we do internals'. Most people are more interested in what you do rather than a name unless you are a huge company who advertises day in and day out.

Is your avatar from the building at the bottom of West Street at the seafront?

Cheers

Ps - I written your e mail address in our work diary where it won't get lost. I will keep you in mind. Local is always best and also, sometimes we get wfp work that we cannot do for one reason or another.

copscleaners@aol.com