[trippyboy]

Rinse on and buy an electric reel, both lifesavers.

[Dave Anderson]

Paul Alan explains it alot better than I could.... Basic concept is if like many in todays fast food world you eat both fat & carbs in large measures then you body will just store unused intake... Have a looked at any countries that have a large amount of cheap fast food outlets.... and see how fat people are becoming.... A few years ago I went to Dubai.... wow how fat are they becoming ! then look at how many fast food outlets there are.

And on a sad note there is becoming a very striking link between the rich and poor...look at the the costs of processed carbs and cheap fats/oils used by most 'fastfood' chains compared to proper fresh food.

Paul Alan explains:
[/quote]If you want specifics as to what happens on the biochemical level when you combine the two I'd recommend Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, he explains it pretty comprehensively I think. but the jist of the story is that your body stores fat by making and storing triglycerides. Triglycerides are made up of three fatty acid components and a glycerol component that binds them together. The glycerol component is made from glucose, so the idea is that if you restrict glucose intake you can restrict glycerol production which restricts triglyceride production. Eating carbohydrates triggers the insulin response that signals your body to use the incoming glucose to make triglycerides. If you eat both fat and carbohydrate you are giving your body everything it needs to make and store fat, including the hormonal signals to do just that.

Restricting fat works in a similar way, but replacing fat with carbohydrate leads to all sorts of health problems, which also get discussed in Good Calories, Bad Calories, and in paleo/primal blogs.
[/quote]

[Dry Clean]

Dave this was all discussed on the mad section and its far from a simple as you guys make out, yes a high fat diet is good
for endurance and putting the body through things it was never designed to do such as rowing a pole all day or running ultra
marathons but for health purposes it has little to offer other than quick weight loss for those who need to lose it quick.
I think we need to be careful recommending these types of diets, the evidence just isn't conclusive enough to say they are safe
long term, for instance a high fat diet is a  real no no for people with thyroid problems which can also make you feel tired and gain
weight.
Then you have to look at trans fats, processed fats,  fats from dairy which tend to be high in salt and hormones, the list goes on.
Do we really want to be avoiding apples oranges beetroot ginger carrots turnip blueberries pears and so on, on the HFLC thread  these are actually being described as bad foods, it madness.

[Rogue Trader]

Great topic guys. Very interesting stuff. I too have had a dabble with fat burning type diets. I was following an American ultra runner can't remember his name but he combined a high fat low carb diet with training at a low heart rate almost exclusively.  Developing the aerobic system whilst using your fat as energy supply. Only difference was that he also was very strict on alkalizing foods. Alkalizing high fat foods. Unfortunately im back on the cheese rolls and Stella atm

[Rogue Trader]

Just remembered that instead of consuming gels he had little bags of avocado and chia seeds strapped doing his waist when running an event!!

[k.diver]

u need to be employing  asap

 or else youll mess up  burn out and lose the lot

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

Modded:  Unless you're a doc, you're probably best not advising what drugs to take.

[NWH]

They are steroids

[Tosh]

My neighbour sells and uses steroids, he’a a **modded; language please gentlemen.  This forum has rules.  Without rules we will have anarchy.  Thank you.** lunatic. Its like living next door to a volcano.

[paul alan]

Dave this was all discussed on the mad section and its far from a simple as you guys make out, yes a high fat diet is good
for endurance and putting the body through things it was never designed to do such as rowing a pole all day or running ultra
marathons but for health purposes it has little to offer other than quick weight loss for those who need to lose it quick.
I think we need to be careful recommending these types of diets, the evidence just isn't conclusive enough to say they are safe
long term, for instance a high fat diet is a  real no no for people with thyroid problems which can also make you feel tired and gain
weight.
Then you have to look at trans fats, processed fats,  fats from dairy which tend to be high in salt and hormones, the list goes on.
Do we really want to be avoiding apples oranges beetroot ginger carrots turnip blueberries pears and so on, on the HFLC thread  these are actually being described as bad foods, it madness.

You have a good point, the phyto nutrients in fruits and veggies are essential to good health. And the jury is still out on which is the best type of diet is for optimal health, there seems to be so many "schools" of thought its totaly confusing. Who do you listen to??
the high fat types of diet scare me a little although i have done it. There is lots of rssearch supporting high fat diet as healthy brett mckay from art of manliness went on a high fat diet for 90 days and had before and after blood test and the results speak for them selfs, some realy possitive cholesterol tryglyciride reports.
I even tried a vegan diet recently but now I include some animal protein but just drasticaly less than previously.
Carbohydrates have hormonal benefits and having tried all types of diet  I prefer to have some carbs, typicaly around 40% of daily calorie consumption. The important consideration is which sources of carbohydrate you consume, I eat lots of fruit and veggies more veggies than fruit as too much fructose is a no no. I love oats and sweet potato wedges(not together) and each time we shop we buy different greens and try to get organic where possible.
Theres just too many people touting different deitary advice and they can be convincing.
Ive been in so many circles with it all you just get dizzy.
From now on Im going to use my common sense, eat mostly whole clean and varied foods. Watch out for the saturated fats( but not altogether), also processed and refined foods, high salt high sugar.
And have a little of waht you fancy aswell, as long as it doesnt dominate what your chewing on.

[Tom White]

the high fat types of diet scare me a little although i have done it. There is lots of rssearch supporting high fat diet as healthy

We've been doing it since 1st December.  I've lost 20 lbs, and feel great.  Wor Lass does it too, not to lose weight, but because it helps her run ultra marathons (fat as fuel is better than carbs for fuel for endurance events).

We both feel better on low carb high fat 'diet' (we're not after losing weight anymore), than when we relapse and eat carbs.

[Tom White]

Anyone feeling it ?

Nope.

Add some strength training to your normal fitness program and you'll feel much better for it. 

[Tom White]

your bound to feel tired if your doing all that training on a low carb diet at your age plus your daily window cleaning work.ive got a mate whos trying to get me to do a tough mudder event but im not interested.i really dont understand why people push their bodies to the limit.he loves it though!.

Daz, Wor Lass runs ultra marathons and wins them, on a low carb diet.  She smashes the majority of the blokes too.

She's 44, so no spring chicken either.

The thing with carbs is that it is stored in your body as glycogen, but our bodies can only hold a limited amount, which is why when it's depleted runners 'hit the wall'.  But if you're fat-adapted, i.e. your body has learnt how to efficiently process fat for fuel, you have an unlimited source of energy for endurance events.

What you often find - as Wor Lass did when she ran 100 miles in 24 hours - is that after several hours of running, you really don't want to eat, but if you don't, you will fail.  She did lots of retching and puking at around the 70 mile point; refueling was a struggle for her.

Now she's fat adapted it means she has less reliance on having to eat as much during long endurance events.

[paul alan]

the high fat types of diet scare me a little although i have done it. There is lots of rssearch supporting high fat diet as healthy

We've been doing it since 1st December.  I've lost 20 lbs, and feel great.  Wor Lass does it too, not to lose weight, but because it helps her run ultra marathons (fat as fuel is better than carbs for fuel for endurance events).

We both feel better on low carb high fat 'diet' (we're not after losing weight anymore), than when we relapse and eat carbs.

When going on a high fat diet in the first week you quickly lose several pounds, this is due to you pee'ing out all the carbs stored in your body. Glycogen holds water-when returning to a higher carb approach your muscle glycogen will "fill" back up.
Does feel great losing all that water though. 

[Dave Anderson]

With a lot of things the average guy on the street and come to think of it doctors are not really that able to tell the difference between the 'official' advice and others .... and lets face it the general low fat options that many orgs and governments give out doesn't seem to be working.... So for those who are willing to put in the effort.... Why not try some of these methods of eating? Look at what you are eating, whats in it and why is it there? and even my working dogs now eat 'raw' why....have you seen what goes into dog food? just like human processed foods there is so much that is not really nutrition but used to 'fill'.

Do a little training and try a 100km run using standard food, gels etc and see how your body reacts.... We are all 'N of 1'.... So what works for me may not work for you.  The trouble is many people will pick some advice from the internet and then make it their mantra according to their beliefs... I and many people like me have alot of skin in the game to draw conculsions from.

Another point to note is say you lived in say Antarctica .... and you needed to survive how would you eat? the human body can adapt to many situations....

The thing is when considering advice about methods of eating or 'diets' is what enabled the advice/research to occur?

The modern accepted eating regime is just is not working...How much money is being spent by your local health departments on trying to fix conventional food choices' ? perhaps go to the bathroom look at yourself, go to your docs and get a full health screen - what does it say?, look at yourself and ask 'is what I am fueling my body with good for me'? now go run 5kms and see how your lifestyle works.... Lets face it every reasonably healthy human being below 60 should be able to jog 5kms right?

Granted I started this thread about being tired but that's obviously due to the amount I train and the events I am training for.... You cannot just decide you are going to attempt to run 200km in one session can you? just as I know from experience that at around 100 km my body will not tolerate much physical food but I do know I have enough 'fat' for my body to use as a fuel source as I have spent the past year  getting myself for want of a better phrase 'fat adapted'.

Currently 7.5% body fat, resting 46bpm hr, medical/bloods/fats off the charts doc says that I am very similar to a fit 18 y/o .... I teach crossfit also and with the exception of a few 'young-guns' I at 49 keep and for the most part will beat the vast majority in the box work-wise and for strength can deadlift 2.5 my own body-weight. Now whilst my post here is turning into a little bit of dick-swinging I think it is more for me to say.... I like you counter arguments but we are all 'N of 1' I have a very clear idea of my performance how would you rate yours and what tools did you use :-)

*** Every now and then a little 'dirt in the tank' is a good thing.... I choose every 8 weeks (end of my w/c cycle) to have a burger king meal...why? because I like to live life and I like it!

[k.diver]

going to the docs for a full health screening is like taking your ten year old car in for a 100 point free checkover

 youll come away thinking its time to call in the scrappie !

actually i had the health check a year ago and came away feeling i had to lose a stone but not much else.  But this was only because the person doing the check was in a hurry  to close shop for the day . if she had had an hour to kill id have been borderline diabetic  + goodness knows what else-its repeat business for those guys

anyhow  i lost that stone  and  felt better for it of course.  but  whats made me feel  a whole lot better is ive lads doing the brunt of the work,im still out there leading the charge but im pickin n choosin what i do . i launch the torpedos but i dont circle round looking for survivors in the evenings

 the plain simple fact is if you dont slow down and pace yourself once yer pushin 50 something will go twang and youll be on the floor

[Dry Clean]

Dave what are you actually eating ? the problem on the LCHF thread was that it didn't matter what you put in your mouth as
long as it was fat which meant the majority of it was still processed crap with the odd bit of tasteless veg added just to pretend it was a healthy diet, not joking the E numbers and crap that go into the low carb bread would make a pot noodle look healthy.
Your taking exercise to the extremes and therefore it requires an extreme diet to fuel it, this has very little to do with wanting to
be fit and healthy.
As you have just admitted the only reason your tired is your driving you body to exhaustion, its telling you to slow down so
maybe instead of looking for ways to push that exhaustion further into the distance you could learn to be content with what you
have already achieved take a step back and actually consider I'm I doing myself more harm than good.
Just to keep this on subject with the thread its no different to a window cleaner pushing more and more work out just
because they want to keep beating their yearly profit.

[Dry Clean]

Being as fit as an 18 year old doesn't mean you have the body of an 18 year old, I think some of these guys tend to forget this.

[Arnold Palmer]

With a lot of things the average guy on the street and come to think of it doctors are not really that able to tell the difference between the 'official' advice and others .... and lets face it the general low fat options that many orgs and governments give out doesn't seem to be working.... So for those who are willing to put in the effort.... Why not try some of these methods of eating? Look at what you are eating, whats in it and why is it there? and even my working dogs now eat 'raw' why....have you seen what goes into dog food? just like human processed foods there is so much that is not really nutrition but used to 'fill'.

Do a little training and try a 100km run using standard food, gels etc and see how your body reacts.... We are all 'N of 1'.... So what works for me may not work for you.  The trouble is many people will pick some advice from the internet and then make it their mantra according to their beliefs... I and many people like me have alot of skin in the game to draw conculsions from.

Another point to note is say you lived in say Antarctica .... and you needed to survive how would you eat? the human body can adapt to many situations....

The thing is when considering advice about methods of eating or 'diets' is what enabled the advice/research to occur?

The modern accepted eating regime is just is not working...How much money is being spent by your local health departments on trying to fix conventional food choices' ? perhaps go to the bathroom look at yourself, go to your docs and get a full health screen - what does it say?, look at yourself and ask 'is what I am fueling my body with good for me'? now go run 5kms and see how your lifestyle works.... Lets face it every reasonably healthy human being below 60 should be able to jog 5kms right?

Granted I started this thread about being tired but that's obviously due to the amount I train and the events I am training for.... You cannot just decide you are going to attempt to run 200km in one session can you? just as I know from experience that at around 100 km my body will not tolerate much physical food but I do know I have enough 'fat' for my body to use as a fuel source as I have spent the past year  getting myself for want of a better phrase 'fat adapted'.

Currently 7.5% body fat, resting 46bpm hr, medical/bloods/fats off the charts doc says that I am very similar to a fit 18 y/o .... I teach crossfit also and with the exception of a few 'young-guns' I at 49 keep and for the most part will beat the vast majority in the box work-wise and for strength can deadlift 2.5 my own body-weight. Now whilst my post here is turning into a little bit of dick-swinging I think it is more for me to say.... I like you counter arguments but we are all 'N of 1' I have a very clear idea of my performance how would you rate yours and what tools did you use :-)

Which is it? Are you fit as an 18 year old or are you  a washed up old scrubber who's ruined by a week on an girly slx?

When I was 18 I could've managed a 60 hr week with a full fat, man sized brodex aluminium pole without moaning about being 'tired' and not a chance I could've run to the shops, let alone 100k.

Also, I've only ever eaten what I fancy eating, mostly chips, sometimes macaroni pies. I've never weighed myself without being asked to by a doctor and gyms are for posers and girls.

You're probably scrubbing too hard.

[Tom White]

Being as fit as an 18 year old doesn't mean you have the body of an 18 year old, I think some of these guys tend to forget this.

Your average 18 year old has an overweight dough body.