[jo5hm4n]

So, due to a work related accident in 2014 i have had problems with my back and neck, worse than they already were.  It's been giving me bad grief especially so for the last year or so.  I'm waiting to have a scan and see if there is anything that can be done, but either way my doctor has advised me that having a physical working job full time isn't going to help with my back problems, longterm could make it worse.  Sometimes i go through weeks of agony, to the point where every day working is an absolute grind and a real struggle.  So until such a time where my back is miraculously fixed and free from pain and stiffness, i need to work towards making some changes to my business.

So i'm looking into now employing somebody to ease my workload.  I have another business which i do part time which isn't physical and sedantry, so i can do this to subsidize my lowered income from employing somebody to clean windows for me.  My plan is to go from full time to having a full time employee and then myself work towards being part time window cleaning 2/3 days a week.  Also, if i get a few weeks where my back is worse than normal and sometimes in alot of pain, then knowing that i have somebody that can run the rounds for me is a massive relief, meaning the business can keep functioning.

I've never employed anybody part time/full time who i intend to send out in a van and to work by themselves.  I have looked into all the costs of an employee, including holiday pay/National Insurance/New Pension Scheme/ Paye/Payroll/Employers Liability insurance etc..  Plus all of the normal costs of running the business + potentially getting another van and kitting out so we have 2 on the road.  Looking at all the figures i can still see that even with 1 employee it would still be fairly profitable.

I'm just mainly looking for any advice or tips from those of you who already employ can give me.  I do have a few questions though if anybody can answer these for me.

Is there any way to protect yourself from an employee stealing your work and setting up themselves?  Contract through a solicitor?  I am thinking of employing only those 25+ for van insurance costs more than anything.  Also thinking that, switching nearly all customers over to online/direct debit payment is also safer, so that employee is rarely dealing with cash from customers.

I'm thinking of paying my member of staff £85 a day, with a target goal for him to hit of £250(not london prices).  Anything after that i will pay 30% commission on all work.  I may even just pay him commission only of 30% for all work he does.  This way it works as an incentive for him to work hard and fast, obviously making sure quality isn't sacrificed and losing customers.  3 Strikes and he's out!  how do you pay your staff?  I don't want to pay minimum wage, i would rather pay more and get more commitment out of a worker.  Happy to pay £10-£12 if necessary if things work out well.

I am worried about sick pay though, is there any way round this?  Such as zero hours contract work?  I do want to employ, but ofcourse if an employee was off work with a broken leg or something for 3 months, then the business wouldn't pay to keep running at all.

No i dont want to sub contract work out, or franchise.  Right now i would rather employ work towards getting my employee full time in a van on the road, then i can work 2-3 days a week on the tools in the other van, rest of the week i can take a more sedantry role in my other business just to top my income up.

If anybody can also list any of the minor/major problems that go along with employing, just so i know what to expect and make sure i have a realistic approach to this.

Literally just after anything at all that anybody on here can advise with or share your experiences with employing.

Lastly, if anybody has any documents they can share with me i would appreciate that.  Mainly looking for contract between employer and employee for window cleaning, and also interview applications, and any other documents for that matter that could be useful to me.  Ofcourse documents that are examples, to which i can edit for the finer details.

Thanks guys, appreciate the help anybody can offer on here.


 

[Ian101]

Josh if you can get hold of Richard from iSparkle in Chester he has some great ways of paying and incentivising staff.

He does come on hear but not very often.

If you explain how you know me then im sure he will be happy to chat with you.

The basics of his system is wages are related to daily turnover / quality i.e. no complaints / actually turning up for work .

Zero hours prob wont work as most employees like a guaranteed wage every month which is why they're not self employed - zero hours does not give them this.

One thing I looked into but some on here said it was too generous was paying them a split of the days turnover

turnover = 250
less van / other expenses say 50
balance 200 = split 2 ways

[AuRavelling79]

I employed Dan (my son in law) for three years until 2014 and now "take a small monthly cut" by way of invoicing him for what is now his round. I was probably more generous than I would have been with a non relative.

I paid him £10 per hour and guaranteed him 30 hours a week minimum (holidays were based on this 4 day week, no sick pay) and he worked with me in the same van. Until the last six months when he was off on his own in the second van in preparation for the "split". We agreed that if the work needed to be spread to a fifth day or even a sixth due to weather then he would help.

We had joint targets which from memory were that if we did a certain amount a month between us he would get an extra £100 that month and if we hit a quarterly target he would get AN EXTRA £300 bonus for that quarter on top.

He also had private use of the second van. I also let him do gutters and conny roofs on his own that I wasn't interested in on a 60/40 in his favour basis.

[paul alan]

Was this all legal and contracted granville?

Sounds like a plan

[Marc Stock]

This thread is of great interest to me also.

I'm looking at employing soon. Already my wife and I are now on PAYE salary from the window cleaning business. We went Ltd at the beginning of the month.

I would seek professional advice from an accountant with payroll experience. Get a signed contract of employment made up using an employment law expert.

Dont forget you will have to have employers liability insurance in place too.

Trevor Huckstepp at Invicta Insurance 01732 471965 got me full public liability and employee for £260. A good £300 cheaper than my last cheapest quote.

[Michael Peterson]

my advice, more on your injury than on employing, have a look at yoga, you can do modified yoga for injury ( yoga for bjj does some ) but there are many, it will help you massively, with pain and mobility  and you really will see improvement

[jonboywalton75]

Sorry to hear about your health issues
Hope you get sorted in the long term
All the best

[AuRavelling79]

Was this all legal and contracted granville?

Sounds like a plan

Absolutely by the book. HMRC notified, Public liability insurance, insured as a driver, N.I. contributions, the lot. Worked fine.

My Mrs. did the books and accounting.

Now he is self-employed - he bought the van and I take a rental or royalty fee to cover the work I handed over and the fact that he fills up from my RO and water tank as he lives in a flat.

[paul alan]

Was this all legal and contracted granville?

Sounds like a plan

Absolutely by the book. HMRC notified, Public liability insurance, insured as a driver, N.I. contributions, the lot. Worked fine.

My Mrs. did the books and accounting.

Now he is self-employed - he bought the van and I take a rental or royalty fee to cover the work I handed over and the fact that he fills up from my RO and water tank as he lives in a flat.

sounds like a good way to go about things.
I especialy like the "no sick pay" as thats 1 thing that bothers me, the thought of an employee turning up with a sick note for
And having to cover the work myself whilst still paying said employee,I would be constantly spewing.
Is there anything required by law that must be included to make a contract viable?

[jo5hm4n]

Josh if you can get hold of Richard from iSparkle in Chester he has some great ways of paying and incentivising staff.

He does come on hear but not very often.

If you explain how you know me then im sure he will be happy to chat with you.

The basics of his system is wages are related to daily turnover / quality i.e. no complaints / actually turning up for work .

Zero hours prob wont work as most employees like a guaranteed wage every month which is why they're not self employed - zero hours does not give them this.

One thing I looked into but some on here said it was too generous was paying them a split of the days turnover

turnover = 250
less van / other expenses say 50
balance 200 = split 2 ways

Ian, thanks for your suggestion, i will give him a call found his number on google.  Sounds more like the sort of thing i am wanting to do.  I really don't mind in being generous if it means i can attract somebody who will be loyal and more likely to work probably as they are getting a decent living out of it.  I know how it is when you pay people minimum wage, you get the minimum out of them!

[jo5hm4n]

I employed Dan (my son in law) for three years until 2014 and now "take a small monthly cut" by way of invoicing him for what is now his round. I was probably more generous than I would have been with a non relative.

I paid him £10 per hour and guaranteed him 30 hours a week minimum (holidays were based on this 4 day week, no sick pay) and he worked with me in the same van. Until the last six months when he was off on his own in the second van in preparation for the "split". We agreed that if the work needed to be spread to a fifth day or even a sixth due to weather then he would help.

We had joint targets which from memory were that if we did a certain amount a month between us he would get an extra £100 that month and if we hit a quarterly target he would get AN EXTRA £300 bonus for that quarter on top.

He also had private use of the second van. I also let him do gutters and conny roofs on his own that I wasn't interested in on a 60/40 in his favour basis.

Granville, how did you legally get away with the no sick pay.  Was this all sorted in a contract?  I want to make sure i do things legit, so i have a leg to stand on if somebody i employ is ever sick.  I dont even mind paying them more of a standard wage, on the grounds that they get no sick pay, it counts as holiday days or something.

Thanks

[jo5hm4n]

This thread is of great interest to me also.

I'm looking at employing soon. Already my wife and I are now on PAYE salary from the window cleaning business. We went Ltd at the beginning of the month.

I would seek professional advice from an accountant with payroll experience. Get a signed contract of employment made up using an employment law expert.

Dont forget you will have to have employers liability insurance in place too.

Trevor Huckstepp at Invicta Insurance 01732 471965 got me full public liability and employee for £260. A good £300 cheaper than my last cheapest quote.

I will get in touch with an employment law expert, that definitely sounds like a good idea.  Already on it with employers liability insurance, just need to get a quote off gleaming who i am with atm.

[jo5hm4n]

Sorry to hear about your health issues
Hope you get sorted in the long term
All the best

Cheers Jon, yes i hope so too!  Back isn't as bad as that first day when i went cleaning with you, but on and off it has been bad, i just wanting it sorting really, or atleast know where i stand so i can adapt to my work.

Hope your well!  You still planning on retiring this year?  Your favourite customer from Cae Haf, was asking after you the other day

[jonboywalton75]

 
I think he had a THING for me. 
I attract that sort of attention for some reason, even when I say I'm married
You need to think of your health and earn a living
Getting the right balance is hard though
Take it easy mate

[Spruce]

I employed Dan (my son in law) for three years until 2014 and now "take a small monthly cut" by way of invoicing him for what is now his round. I was probably more generous than I would have been with a non relative.

I paid him £10 per hour and guaranteed him 30 hours a week minimum (holidays were based on this 4 day week, no sick pay) and he worked with me in the same van. Until the last six months when he was off on his own in the second van in preparation for the "split". We agreed that if the work needed to be spread to a fifth day or even a sixth due to weather then he would help.

We had joint targets which from memory were that if we did a certain amount a month between us he would get an extra £100 that month and if we hit a quarterly target he would get AN EXTRA £300 bonus for that quarter on top.

He also had private use of the second van. I also let him do gutters and conny roofs on his own that I wasn't interested in on a 60/40 in his favour basis.

Granville, how did you legally get away with the no sick pay.  Was this all sorted in a contract?  I want to make sure i do things legit, so i have a leg to stand on if somebody i employ is ever sick.  I dont even mind paying them more of a standard wage, on the grounds that they get no sick pay, it counts as holiday days or something.

Thanks

My wife works for a legitimate company and none of their employees get paid if they take sick leave. Its either taken as holiday or a no paid day.

[jo5hm4n]

I think he had a THING for me. 
I attract that sort of attention for some reason, even when I say I'm married
You need to think of your health and earn a living
Getting the right balance is hard though
Take it easy mate

No??  You think so really, or you just joking with me   He has got a wife, mind you when i went there with you he would not stop chatting and always asks after you, yet he rarely talks to me, sometimes even if i make the effort lol!

You too, take it easy pal

[Dry Clean]

I employed Dan (my son in law) for three years until 2014 and now "take a small monthly cut" by way of invoicing him for what is now his round. I was probably more generous than I would have been with a non relative.

I paid him £10 per hour and guaranteed him 30 hours a week minimum (holidays were based on this 4 day week, no sick pay) and he worked with me in the same van. Until the last six months when he was off on his own in the second van in preparation for the "split". We agreed that if the work needed to be spread to a fifth day or even a sixth due to weather then he would help.

We had joint targets which from memory were that if we did a certain amount a month between us he would get an extra £100 that month and if we hit a quarterly target he would get AN EXTRA £300 bonus for that quarter on top.

He also had private use of the second van. I also let him do gutters and conny roofs on his own that I wasn't interested in on a 60/40 in his favour basis.

Granville, how did you legally get away with the no sick pay.  Was this all sorted in a contract?  I want to make sure i do things legit, so i have a leg to stand on if somebody i employ is ever sick.  I dont even mind paying them more of a standard wage, on the grounds that they get no sick pay, it counts as holiday days or something.

Thanks

My wife works for a legitimate company and none of their employees get paid if they take sick leave. Its either taken as holiday or a no paid day.

If they earn more than £113 a week then they are entitled to statuary sick pay from the 5th day onwards, that's the law.

[Solar Steve]

So, due to a work related accident in 2014 i have had problems with my back and neck, worse than they already were.  It's been giving me bad grief especially so for the last year or so.  I'm waiting to have a scan and see if there is anything that can be done, but either way my doctor has advised me that having a physical working job full time isn't going to help with my back problems, longterm could make it worse.  Sometimes i go through weeks of agony, to the point where every day working is an absolute grind and a real struggle.  So until such a time where my back is miraculously fixed and free from pain and stiffness, i need to work towards making some changes to my business.

So i'm looking into now employing somebody to ease my workload.  I have another business which i do part time which isn't physical and sedantry, so i can do this to subsidize my lowered income from employing somebody to clean windows for me.  My plan is to go from full time to having a full time employee and then myself work towards being part time window cleaning 2/3 days a week.  Also, if i get a few weeks where my back is worse than normal and sometimes in alot of pain, then knowing that i have somebody that can run the rounds for me is a massive relief, meaning the business can keep functioning.

I've never employed anybody part time/full time who i intend to send out in a van and to work by themselves.  I have looked into all the costs of an employee, including holiday pay/National Insurance/New Pension Scheme/ Paye/Payroll/Employers Liability insurance etc..  Plus all of the normal costs of running the business + potentially getting another van and kitting out so we have 2 on the road.  Looking at all the figures i can still see that even with 1 employee it would still be fairly profitable.

I'm just mainly looking for any advice or tips from those of you who already employ can give me.  I do have a few questions though if anybody can answer these for me.

Is there any way to protect yourself from an employee stealing your work and setting up themselves?  Contract through a solicitor?  I am thinking of employing only those 25+ for van insurance costs more than anything.  Also thinking that, switching nearly all customers over to online/direct debit payment is also safer, so that employee is rarely dealing with cash from customers.

I'm thinking of paying my member of staff £85 a day, with a target goal for him to hit of £250(not london prices).  Anything after that i will pay 30% commission on all work.  I may even just pay him commission only of 30% for all work he does.  This way it works as an incentive for him to work hard and fast, obviously making sure quality isn't sacrificed and losing customers.  3 Strikes and he's out!  how do you pay your staff?  I don't want to pay minimum wage, i would rather pay more and get more commitment out of a worker.  Happy to pay £10-£12 if necessary if things work out well.

I am worried about sick pay though, is there any way round this?  Such as zero hours contract work?  I do want to employ, but ofcourse if an employee was off work with a broken leg or something for 3 months, then the business wouldn't pay to keep running at all.

No i dont want to sub contract work out, or franchise.  Right now i would rather employ work towards getting my employee full time in a van on the road, then i can work 2-3 days a week on the tools in the other van, rest of the week i can take a more sedantry role in my other business just to top my income up.

If anybody can also list any of the minor/major problems that go along with employing, just so i know what to expect and make sure i have a realistic approach to this.

Literally just after anything at all that anybody on here can advise with or share your experiences with employing.

Lastly, if anybody has any documents they can share with me i would appreciate that.  Mainly looking for contract between employer and employee for window cleaning, and also interview applications, and any other documents for that matter that could be useful to me.  Ofcourse documents that are examples, to which i can edit for the finer details.

Thanks guys, appreciate the help anybody can offer on here.


 

Hi. I used to be a sole trader 4 years ago, but now employ 5 office staff and 5 on tools. Employing and the legality surrounding it is a minefield, but not one that can't be navigated.

Your question in paragraph 5 about protecting your work, you can have your employee sign an anti-competition clause as a separate document or include it in your Statement Of Main Terms. All of my staff sign one which protects my client base and prevents them setting up their own company carrying out your type of work for up to a year. It means they can't use you as a 'training ticket', then clear off and earn more doing it themselves. They do work. I invoked mine for an employee who took great delight in telling me that he was off to set up his own company now that I had trained him. I took greater delight in showing him his own signature on the Anti-Competition Agreement he signed nearly two years previously. He window cleans now, but did office and factory work for a year before he could set up his company. I agree with the rest of paragraph 5.

Paragraph 7. Sick pay needs to be taken out of your profit calculation. During interview phase, you are entitled to ask how many sick days they had off during the previous year. You can check with their previous employer if they provide them as a reference.

The main drawbacks are monitoring the activities of your employee and the quality of their work. This can be done by fitting a tracker to your vehicle. They not only tell you where they have been, but incidents of speeding and even hard acceleration or heavy braking. All of these have an impact on your fuel costs and wear and tear of your vehicle. No news from customers is usually good news regarding quality of work.

Regarding documentation, a quick Google search will give you basic documents. However, having documents is one thing, but knowing how to LEGALLY uphold them is another. If you are employing, YOU NEED TO KNOW YOUR RIGHTS AND THOSE OF YOUR EMPLOYEES. Legality changes every year and making an error means you may not be able to dismiss the employee you really need to get rid of.

I pay Peninsula Employment Law a monthly fee and they provide all documentation, legal advice, supporting letters etc. It is worth every single penny in my opinion. Whenever I need to act or gave a situation thrown up, I contact them and I know I am acting in a legal way towards my employees. They are a massive help, even at 3am when you are wide awake fretting! They provide 24/7 service to you.

That's my twopenneth worth. I hope some of it helps you and others.

And some on here say I don't contribute! 

[Marc Stock]

Good post solar Steve.

How much is the legal advice for employment law?

[k.diver]

youre going to get into bother if you employ anyone who is the sort who might go on their own. anyone with signs at interview of entrepreneurship will be a big no no .   

 you need to find  the type of person who is" good with his fists but cannot tie his shoelaces" ,if you get my drift

  they are out there ,not in big numbers -but they Are out there.   look for someone who cannot add up figures  / doesnt know his own weight or height .