[DASERVICES]

  Don't know if Andy Cheney posts on here but have just found this bit of
  info posted on another forum.

  http://www.hse.gov.uk/aboutus/hsc/meetings/2006/090506/misc09.pdf

  Looks as if the HSE will be targeting window cleaners etc.. on the working at
  heights regulations. About time they starting enforcing this issue.

  Doug

[The Fox]

I got a letter from HSE today, with a form in which HAD to be filled in.

It was directed at window cleaners, all about method used, and normal HS aspects about window cleaning.

 So expect the letter to come through your letter box soon. 

[DASERVICES]

  Kevin,

  How did they find your address, thought window cleaners in England weren't
  registered unlike Scotland.

  Can you elaborate on the HS aspects that were on the letter.

  Cheers

  Doug

[Sir Squeaky]

About time they starting enforcing this issue.

  Doug

What does it matter to you if you don't do it?

Afraid of the competition?
Don't try and ruin it for everyone else.

[Moderator David@stives]

Squeeky

Calm down it is about enforcement of innapropriate use of ladders if you read through the link it says in section  24 that ladders are not banned.

Dave

[Moderator David@stives]

Included in this letter is a form that you are required to fill in to provide information on how you achieve compliance in a number of different areas. Please complete this by the 15th June 2006 and return it in the self addressed envelope provided.
 
Once the forms have been analyzed you will receive another letter thanking you for completing the form. Where necessary you will be provided with detailed information on best practice.
 
From 19th June 2006 Inspectors from both HSE and Local Authorities will be paying particular attention to how window cleaners are carrying out their work. If you are found to be exposing yourself or others to risk of injury, enforcement action may be taken without further warning.

[DASERVICES]

About time they starting enforcing this issue.

  Doug

What does it matter to you if you don't do it?

Afraid of the competition?
Don't try and ruin it for everyone else.

  Squeeky you on the beer tonight !!!

Sorry wasn't having a go at ladders , but pointing out its about time the HSE clarified
the safe use of ladders. By doing this they should interact with the local window cleaners, looks as if they are going to do this so everyone will know where they stand.

Doug

[poleman]

Don't know if Andy Cheney posts on here

YES Iam here

This was posted on the forum by a window cleaner that had a letter thou the post

Included in this letter is a form that you are required to fill in to provide information on how you achieve compliance in a number of different areas. Please complete this by the 15th June 2006 and return it in the self addressed envelope provided.
 
Once the forms have been analyzed you will receive another letter thanking you for completing the form. Where necessary you will be provided with detailed information on best practice.
 
From 19th June 2006 Inspectors from both HSE and Local Authorities will be paying particular attention to how window cleaners are carrying out their work. If you are found to be exposing yourself or others to risk of injury, enforcement action may be taken without further warning.


Andy

[Sir Squeaky]

Sorry wasn't having a go at ladders , but pointing out its about time the HSE clarified
the safe use of ladders. By doing this they should interact with the local window cleaners, looks as if they are going to do this so everyone will know where they stand.

Doug

Sorry Doug, if it's just clarification then fair enough, I think everyone would like to know.

I just thought you were another one hoping ladders would be banned to justify the pole.

Sorry!

[windows_chepstow]

Squeeky

Calm down it is about enforcement of innapropriate use of ladders if you read through the link it says in section  24 that ladders are not banned.

Dave

Dave,  it may say ladders are not banned, but they've still got to be used in accordance with the Working at Height Directive that was effective from the 6th April 2005; which basically states that working at height (working from ladders for example) must only be used as a last resort and then only in certain parameters.

The document referred to in this post; section 24 states:

24. Formal enforcement action coming out of inspection activity will be in line with HSC
Enforcement Policy and the Enforcement Management Model. While WAHR have not
banned ladders, inappropriate use will attract a proportionate enforcement response.

Take note of the 'inappropriate use' part.  Obviously, if a task can be done from the ground it would be 'inappropriate' to use ladders, since the guiding principle behind the WAHD states that working at height must be avoided where-ever possible.

So using ladders as a routine method of accessing windows to clean at height is not in accordance with current regulations; particularly when there are other methods available; and I'm not just talking about WFP either.  Turbo Terry uses poles, but not of the WFP variety.

The document referred to seems like the 'authorities' are going to start enforcing the rules and given that we've had three window cleaners die this year so far, from falls from height; is that such a bad thing?

[macc]

Doug

Sorry Doug, if it's just clarification then fair enough, I think everyone would like to know.

I just thought you were another one hoping ladders would be banned to justify the pole.

Sorry!

Squeaky, i think you will find us wfpers dont want ladders banned to justify the pole. I can justify the pole for myself on the grounds of my own safty. If your happy to carry on working off ladders thats fine by me.

Macc

[carl stanton]

thanks for that link good to keep up to date and be aware

[windows_chepstow]

I've just re-read my last post on this thread and it makes me sound 'holier than thou'.

Just to be straight here, I still use ladders even when it may not be in accordance with the Working At Height Directive, but I do understand the regulations, recognise the risks and make my decisions based on both a knowledge of the perils and my own personal attitude to 'taking a chance'.

I only use ladders in certain circumstances, where I judge I'm safe and it's quicker or less-effort involved to use than my backpack; or on windows I can't gain access to with a WFP.



 

[The Fox]

Doug

I started on a government new deal scheme, Also I had to do a HS course. I think every tom dick and Harry are informed about people on these schemes judging by the amount of phone calls I get from people trying to sell me something.

It had nothing to do about banning ladders; it was questions about method used type of ladders, training staff, stuff like that.

I don’t think ladder users will have a problem if they working in a safe way. But anyone caught using domestic ladders will be in trouble if caught I think..

[Moderator David@stives]

It is true that ladders are not banned and should only be used where it is sensible and safe to do so and all other alternative means have been considered.

Different industry's interpret the Wahd differently and it seems there are those who say ladders should not be used at all, this is mainly the voice of wfp manufacturers.

The H&s officer in the fed interpets it differently and still allows staff to use ladders.

Myself will never go back to ladders although i still use them on occassions mainly where it is reasonably practicable to do so.

Dave

[JohnL]

Different industry's interpret the Wahd differently and it seems there are those who say ladders should not be used at all, this is mainly the voice of wfp manufacturers.

and there lies the root of the discussion.

who is asking the question? because you will get different views and answers!

JohnL

[pjulk]

Myself im glad they are going to enforce it.
Im not saying that because im WFP as i still use ladders for some jobs like a lot of WFP users.
But with 3 deaths so far the enforsment can only be a good thing.

Paul

[jinky230]

guys if we are being true to ourselves who really enjoys going up ladders

after a full day work you are knackered and as you get older you feel it .

I did between 30-40 semi 3 bed detached houses in a day up a ladder, i do have 30 years experience, were I built my speed up and everyday come 4pm I was knackered, wfp helps to reduce the fartigue never mind the safety

I cant believe anyone really enjoys working off ladders flat out everyday - dayin     dayout

jinky

[Moderator David@stives]

Wfp will get you knackered as well dont worry about that !!!!!!

The only difference the jelly legs will be swapped for aching back, arms, wrists , elbows, chest, shoulders,

But in my eyes it is a fair old swap and safer too.

Dave

[DASERVICES]

  I think that all of us on this forum would not recomend ladders being banned,
  not only our industry but others would be effected. The issue lies in the safe
  use of ladders, I don't know about you guys but new houses today are not built
  window cleaner friendly.

  When you are having to do windows from the side and often reaching out this
  is when I consider ladders to be a risk. When you buy a ladder there is always
  stickers indicating safe use of ladders, and I'm sure including myself we have
  crossed that barrier in our time.

  Hence since using WFP I have found this a safer alternative, and like most on this
  forum we were dubious about changing over. In the end I'm glad it does the
  same results as trad provided you use the tools right.

  I want to expand like most of us on here but the last thing we want on our minds
  is the death of a employee, another reason why I went WFP.

  Yes it has it down sides like trad but I feel a lot safe as well as my staff.

   I don't think there is anyone on this forum who has never had that filling your
   pants feeling as your ladder moves, now it's that wet feeling with WFP.  

   Each to their own but I was as stubborn as David-St Ives and I changed and it's
    like a weight off my shoulders.

    My advise is try WFP but go the DIY route as I feel some company's rip us off,
    I'm quite willing to give anyone some money saving tips.

     Just remember " YOUR LIFE IS IMPORTANT FOR YOUR FAMILY"

     Doug