[cleaning4usussex]

Hi,
I'm new to wfp and I originally was running 8mm on my reel then I was told by someone in the know to change this to 6mm I have just purchased a extream 35 pole with normal jets and when I have my controller on 99 it's still not coming out that much when I had my original 8mm it was much better!! What is everyone else running 6mm or 8mm and why? I'm thinking of going back,
Jamie

[duncan h]

6mm. Changed about 2 years ago. No problems

[p1w1]

Hi,
I'm new to wfp and I originally was running 8mm on my reel then I was told by someone in the know to change this to 6mm I have just purchased a extream 35 pole with normal jets and when I have my controller on 99 it's still not coming out that much when I had my original 8mm it was much better!! What is everyone else running 6mm or 8mm and why? I'm thinking of going back,
Jamie

dont know what controller you have but is the 99 not just the speed?..you will more then likely need to up the pressure on your controller too as its pushing the water through a smaller diameter hose

[Spruce]

Another poster on this forum couldn't understand why a difference in 2mm hose size (8mm minibore to 6mm microbore) should make a difference in flow. Doug Atkinson from Daqua posted this in reply

It does -------, makes at least 30% reduction in flow
 

Take a look at this;

http://www.flourmilling.co.uk/water.html

I realise its steel pipe but I see the flow rate difference between 6mm and 8mm bore steel pipe is considerable. At 4 bar the flow through 6mm pipe is 0.022 liters per second. The 8mm pipe its  0.056 liters per sec at the same pressure. So a 6mm tube will only allow fractionally less than 1/2 the volume of water at 4 bar. Our hose coiled up around a hose reel will probably reduce those figures a bit more.

Hot water will have a higher (or is it lower) viscosity (less dense) so will flow better through a smaller diamt hose. So most hot water users happily use microbore hose.


http://www.frca.co.uk/Documents/100308%20Physics%20of%20flowLR.pdf

Interesting read these 7 pages.

Look at the difference between Laminar flow and Turbulent flow. Once fluid in a tube reaches a certain speed it become turbulent. Once it becomes turbulent it requires 4 times the amount of pressure to double the flow rate. Fluid through hose coiled on hose reels won't be laminar in flow but turbulent.

To calculate the area of a circle the formula is

A = π r2

A 6mm id hose is fractionally more than half the size of an 8mm hose.
A 3mm jet is a little more than twice the size of a 2mm jet.
A 1mm jet is about 1/4 of the size of a 2mm jet.

[Tony dunmall]

The controller possibly will need calibrating
With smaller bore

If I'm around the farm you can catch up with me I'll have a look

Mine on grippa set at 55 with fan jets and is enough to clean with

[Spruce]

Hi,
I'm new to wfp and I originally was running 8mm on my reel then I was told by someone in the know to change this to 6mm I have just purchased a extream 35 pole with normal jets and when I have my controller on 99 it's still not coming out that much when I had my original 8mm it was much better!! What is everyone else running 6mm or 8mm and why? I'm thinking of going back,
Jamie

dont know what controller you have but is the 99 not just the speed?..you will more then likely need to up the pressure on your controller too as its pushing the water through a smaller diameter hose

He hasn't said his flow was pulsing (on & off) so we have to assume/conclude the controller is correctly/suitably calibrated.

[cleaning4usussex]

Hi Tony that would be great Oliver told me to change my 8mm which I already had on a reel before I bought my grippatank, it did pulsate a bit to start with then eventually evened out my 99 reading is controller on max by using remote (new to all this) Jamie

[Tony dunmall]

Have you still got my number

[cleaning4usussex]

I have still got your flyer in my van mate I'm not around for next couple of days as going pevensey direction I will let you have a look as your the pro on this grippatank stuff 👍

[Oliver @ GrippaTank]

Hi Cleaning4usussex,

Feel free to call us on 01223 790049 or email support@grippatank.co.uk and we can help you re-calibrate your controller.

[Ian Sheppard]

Another poster on this forum couldn't understand why a difference in 2mm hose size (8mm minibore to 6mm microbore) should make a difference in flow. Doug Atkinson from Daqua posted this in reply

It does -------, makes at least 30% reduction in flow
 

Take a look at this;

http://www.flourmilling.co.uk/water.html

I realise its steel pipe but I see the flow rate difference between 6mm and 8mm bore steel pipe is considerable. At 4 bar the flow through 6mm pipe is 0.022 liters per second. The 8mm pipe its  0.056 liters per sec at the same pressure. So a 6mm tube will only allow fractionally less than 1/2 the volume of water at 4 bar. Our hose coiled up around a hose reel will probably reduce those figures a bit more.

Hot water will have a higher (or is it lower) viscosity (less dense) so will flow better through a smaller diamt hose. So most hot water users happily use microbore hose.


http://www.frca.co.uk/Documents/100308%20Physics%20of%20flowLR.pdf

Interesting read these 7 pages.

Look at the difference between Laminar flow and Turbulent flow. Once fluid in a tube reaches a certain speed it become turbulent. Once it becomes turbulent it requires 4 times the amount of pressure to double the flow rate. Fluid through hose coiled on hose reels won't be laminar in flow but turbulent.

To calculate the area of a circle the formula is

A = π r2

A 6mm id hose is fractionally more than half the size of an 8mm hose.
A 3mm jet is a little more than twice the size of a 2mm jet.
A 1mm jet is about 1/4 of the size of a 2mm jet.

As Spruce shows switching to a smaller ID can and often will have an impact on flow. In reducing the ID of the hose by 25% the space available for water to flow is also reduced. The hose wall itself will have a maximum capacity to expand which will be less than the original 8mm hose. In effect the hose its self restricts how much water can flow through the line.

In running the controller at 99 the pump is trying to force the 4 - 5 LPM in to the hose. The fact the smaller ID hose restricts the flow increases the amount of back pressure in the system In effect the hose is working against the pump.

Part of the answer here is actually to turn the flow down so the back pressure is reduced, Increasing calibration may help because the harder the pump works the more current it draws ans the controller needs to know what this is.  My suggestion is to turn flow down to around 60 then go into the auto calibration menu of the controller. The need here is actually to reduce back pressure rather than increase it.

Calibration of the control allows the control to know the open flow current draw and base pressure of the pump. Smaller ID means the pump will have to draw more current to overcome the restriction in the hose. Hence Cal will likely need to be higher.
The combination of Cal that is to low plus high pressure may mean the pump is being cycled on/off this will also reduce flow.

The system can run well with 6mm ID hose but it has to be set up to suit. As the hose will create greater pressure flow rate can be reduced

[Ian Sheppard]

Have a look at this blog and links

http://springltd.co/blog/49/pressure-dynamics-within-water-fed-pole-systems

[mufcglen]

reading that above how it makes a difference to flow, does it matter though in our case as we all have pole hose so would it matter whether we have 6 or 8mm internal bore if it has to get through the pole hose too?
cant say i noticed anything really when i changed from minibore to microbore except massively lighter when dragging it around!

[the king]

i use 6mm as i have a power up H D and im now using less water i think 6mm is beta my self

[matthewprice]

I have moved to 6mm and I have set my controller at 79 .Using same setting on 6 & 8 mm hose .I am using a lot less water with the 6mm .I live near coast and like a good for flow of water so have tried increasing controller to 89  to see if I can get the same flow

[robbo333]

I use pole hose on my main reel, about 60m of it (Gardiners reinforced pole hose), I think it's 5mm ID, with no problems at all.
So my reel setup is 40m of microbore and then I added the 60m of Gardiners pole hose. Most of the time I only ever use the 60m so the extra 40m is there a backup (if you like). Firstly I would turn your controller down to about 25 and check you have some flow before connecting to the hose reel. Then connect it up and run it out your brush at 25 to get some flow going. Then gently increase it until you get a decent flow rate. I found that if you try and blast it through, it doesn't like it (I don't know the maths). My controller is on 50 and I can hit a cat at about 15 feet away; more than enough for me.

[Tony dunmall]

80 meters ex feed pole hose on he electric set at 45 with grippa pumps, sure flow or flow jet at 55

On other reel 30 meters mucrobore and 50 meters exceed blue pole hose

Same seeing

More than enough flow for me

Did have to adjust calibrationto 65 in cold weather can get turned down to counteract harder pole hose, although I have a grippa cabinet with 12 volt heater Now,
I turn it on for hour in cold weather now and I don't need to adjust the calibration as pumps in the cabinet

So good result

[dazmond]

Hi,
I'm new to wfp and I originally was running 8mm on my reel then I was told by someone in the know to change this to 6mm I have just purchased a extream 35 pole with normal jets and when I have my controller on 99 it's still not coming out that much when I had my original 8mm it was much better!! What is everyone else running 6mm or 8mm and why? I'm thinking of going back,
Jamie

theres something wrong somewhere.ive been using 6mm microbore for years with no problems.