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Carl2009

  • Posts: 806
What would you do in my situation?
« on: October 05, 2016, 03:00:33 pm »
OK, bear with me.

I started in 2009. I'm 53. I don't employ. I work with a 500l PF system in a 2006 Trafic with sub-100k on the clock (it's pretty reliable). I turn over £43K. My margin is 82%. I start at 08:45-ish and finish at 14:00 often earlier, sometimes later. I usually have +/- 80 litres left at the end of the day. I don't work in the rain or wind. I do work in winter. I don't take holidays as such (a couple of days here and there). I don't take breaks during  the day (i.e. no 20 min bacon sarnie stops). Lunch is a 10 minute affair. I pride myself on the cleans I give and have a great reputation. I have never advertised and have never needed to canvas after the first 3 months of starting. I have no mortgage, we have good savings and my wife works full time. I have a very nice standard of living. All down to window cleaning.

I always had plans that come "retirement" to convert to a ltd company and rather than sell the business "gift" the business to someone to manage: they would have the lion's share of the profit, say 80% and I would have 20%. I'd retain 51% share of the business, they'd get 49%. They would have the motivation and reward to treat it as a proper business and I would get a nice "pension" for life. Of course you have to find someone, but it was years off and I had time. However...

Window cleaning has also given me shoulder, hand and arm problems. I wear a carpal tunnel brace when working cos of  tendonitis in my right wrist (steady boys... lol), but I am starting to really suffer with aches and pains in my shoulders and back that will just not go away. It's got to the point where I have to consider slowing right down. If I carry on it might mean I have to give up eventually; at the very least i'd have to halve my workload and yet still might have the aches and pains...

So what do I do? Do I convert to ltd or stay sole trader? Limited liability partnership? Re. employing someone - what are the costs I have to consider in addition to salary and NI (pension, employees liab. ins)? Do I get a bigger van with a bigger tank so the day can be filled with work (i'm a demon canvasser and could get loads more if I wanted) with the aim of getting to say £60k (£315 per day x 4 days a week (bad weather writes off 1 day a week on average for me) x 48 weeks per year).  I don't mind investing in new capital equipment such as a new van and I have the cash to do it; i'd perhaps keep the second van as a spare or one he could come to, ready-filled, if he was out of pure at 2pm. Should I just work out something for the new guy to get "given" a good stake in the business, say a share purchase idea?

I have a lad in mind - 25 yrs old, on Living Wage, sick of his warehouseman job, intelligent, never cleaned a pane in his life so no bad habits, good "sales" personality, hard worker, non-smoker, no visible tats, wants to buy own house yada yada.

The aim would be for me to run the business but not do any window cleaning to speak of (save if he's sick, on holiday etc.). I should say I don't want to franchise at all. I want to retain overall control and let someone else do the donkey work albeit for a better than average salary and with the ability to grow it big and earn big as it grows.

Any ideas from guys who have faced a similar dilemma or indeed anyone.

Cheers

8weekly

Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2016, 03:15:30 pm »
My advice would be to do more or less as you suggest, but get more work to get the turnover up to around £70k otherwise you can't pay a great wage for a full time employee. Get it up to £70k or so and you can pay around £23k and still have a reasonable income after expenses.

I'm 53 too and I am just about off the tools now although I've gone further than one employee. I totally sympathise re: shoulder aches and pains.

Arnold Palmer

  • Posts: 20800
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2016, 03:22:07 pm »
Almost certainly if I were you I'd franchise. Employing people will double your working week (eventually) and if you intend to stop cleaning it will most likely be for a pay cut.
#aliens

chris turner

  • Posts: 1492
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2016, 03:25:44 pm »
Blimey, apart from the health problems that was like reading my own autobiography :o

8weekly

Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2016, 03:35:55 pm »
Almost certainly if I were you I'd franchise. Employing people will double your working week (eventually) and if you intend to stop cleaning it will most likely be for a pay cut.
If he followed the Ian Lancaster model he'd only see about £8k a year of his £43k. I didn't follow that model because the turnover needed to earn enough (for me) was astronomical.

johnny bravo

  • Posts: 2699
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2016, 04:02:32 pm »
can you not get out and just do bottoms while your newbie is learning all you have offer him.     It may not be to his liking after a few months,     The wage you are offering him is a great incentitive to stay.      All work there for him, while you go canvassing.  Semi retirement

ascjim

Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2016, 04:23:54 pm »
Sell it and be free of any hassle

Carl2009

  • Posts: 806
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2016, 04:48:18 pm »
can you not get out and just do bottoms while your newbie is learning all you have offer him.     It may not be to his liking after a few months,     The wage you are offering him is a great incentitive to stay.      All work there for him, while you go canvassing.  Semi retirement

Possibly. I would probably want to stay on the glass for the first year, to make sure I have the measure of him and to make sure he's in with both feet. When he sees the possibilities he should know window cleaning is a gold mine if approached in the right way.

Carl2009

  • Posts: 806
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2016, 04:52:04 pm »
Sell it and be free of any hassle

James - i'm young, plenty of life left in me, if not in my joints. I have other stuff I do, but I like the money windows brings me. It's not a hassle to keep it. believe me i've been a salary slave and WC is a doddle compared to other roles i've had. I'd be mad to sell it.

Carl2009

  • Posts: 806
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2016, 04:54:02 pm »
Thanks lads. I'm going to get this lad out with me - pay him £100 for the day to lift the reel in and out lol. See what his future plans are and if I think he can add something to the business.

Any clues as to costs re. employing 1 on say £22K?

8weekly

Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2016, 04:59:27 pm »
Thanks lads. I'm going to get this lad out with me - pay him £100 for the day to lift the reel in and out lol. See what his future plans are and if I think he can add something to the business.

Any clues as to costs re. employing 1 on say £22K?
Your turnover won't leave much profit and it's only really part time. You need more work. IMHO. It's just below what I pay, but I'm in the south east.

Dave Willis

Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2016, 05:04:31 pm »
First thing I'd do is put your prices up  :o

Cookie

  • Posts: 928
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2016, 05:21:24 pm »
Sorry to hear about the aches & pains Carl. I hope it all goes to plan with this lad....

BTW - I recently gave your name to a couple of people who wanted me to clean in Llandewi Velfrey & Tegryn (both out of my area). Do you cover these areas?

Carl2009

  • Posts: 806
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2016, 05:29:54 pm »
Sorry to hear about the aches & pains Carl. I hope it all goes to plan with this lad....

BTW - I recently gave your name to a couple of people who wanted me to clean in Llandewi Velfrey & Tegryn (both out of my area). Do you cover these areas?

Thanks and yes I do.

Carl2009

  • Posts: 806
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2016, 05:31:04 pm »
First thing I'd do is put your prices up  :o

Noted

Carl2009

  • Posts: 806
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2016, 05:33:38 pm »
Thanks lads. I'm going to get this lad out with me - pay him £100 for the day to lift the reel in and out lol. See what his future plans are and if I think he can add something to the business.

Any clues as to costs re. employing 1 on say £22K?
Your turnover won't leave much profit and it's only really part time. You need more work. IMHO. It's just below what I pay, but I'm in the south east.

Quite right. At the moment it's how I like it, giving me the flexibility to manage my other, fun-based commitments. I'd increase the turnover as I said in my post.

Tom-01

  • Posts: 1348
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2016, 05:54:11 pm »
It sounds like you have a nice business there.

Personally I think you should franchise. Yes its less money straight away, but give it 2/3 years you could be earning what you're earning now without having to lift a pole. Or pay any business cost. Or have any employment headaches - they will come.

You said you're a demon canvasser - use that skill to build a franchise business. You only need 5 franchisees to get 100% earnings (based on taking 20% royalties). Plus the initial franchise fee.

Give bits of your current work to franchisees bit by bit to get them started and canvass the rest for them.

Franchising has so many long term benefits.

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2016, 05:54:24 pm »
If my joints were knackered, I'd sell the lot and start buying and selling property, especially if I'd money in the bank as well . Or buy a few properties and rent them out- easy life

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2016, 05:56:00 pm »
Or.... If you love canvassing..... I know there's plenty of work out there from windys who are looking for a decent canvasser , you could make money from that ...

Ian101

  • Posts: 7887
Re: What would you do in my situation?
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2016, 06:07:59 pm »
this is the simple short version

bigger tank
bigger van if required
employ 2 lads on say £8 an hour plus a decent bonus linked to no complaints, attendance and turnover
you drive
they clean
whilst they clean you canvass, do slips, collect etc
get van up to £7500 turnover a month or £375 per day on 20 days a month
^^^^^ depends what part of uk u from so maybe higher or lower
ban mobile phones unless break time

don't come on here telling others your doing £7500 a month as you will be attacked by the @ankers on here