[Sir Squeaky]

    whats a square edged window got to do with it, I can do them twice
as fast as the sloping rubber type.

Dave

Can't see how Dave, you can't get right to the edges, and water gets stuck in the channels, so when you detail it, it splashes out everywhere.

Also as you go diagonally on a narrow window the rubber catches on the frame.

I can see it would make no difference with wfp, but I hate doing them.

[The Fox]

Squeaky

I think you have dug a big hole for your self

What and never be able to show my face on here again if I lose?

Not likely!

If you don’t do it you’re going to look an idiot, and if you do you might look an idiot.

[Sir Squeaky]

Might as well save myself the effort then.....

Won't prove anything to me anyway.
So Ian can do one house very carefully without spots or marks?

I've still seen many many windows that look awful.
You won't change my opinion, I've seen the truth.

Ask my missus.

[The Fox]

So you’re prepared to admit defeat, and you have being talking a load of rubbish when knocking WFP. 

[Moderator David@stives]

Squeeky

I will ask her when i see her   

 also come and have a look at my dads windows they are done trad and they are awful corners missed, squeegie turn marks, drips from the top.

I think the same guy must of got a wfp and is maquerading in Chepstow.

Also those square edge windows are fantastic to clean with no detailing at all its all down to how you cut your rubber.  

I use hard rubber and cut it almost flush to the end of the squeegiee also i just tighten the channel slighly at the ends.

If a window like that slows you down then you aint as fast as you think.

I think you should take up Ians challenge then win or lose you can come back here with your head held high as you were prepared to put your head on the block/

I think by taking this challenge you will gain a lot of respect off people here.

[neil100]

Tell you what If I lived in Chepstow I would take Ian on.

I would do it Trad, no problem and I would be pretty darn quick.

I would even do wfp as well just to compare with Ian if my quality of work is as good as his.

Squeeks you will go down in my estamation if you dont take him on, its not the speed issue but one of quality or lack of it as you tell us often enough of wfp.

Nel

[Morph]

This thread reminds me of how fights used to build up when I was at school.
Word got out that so and so was making the challenge, and the croud would gather calling for blood to be spilled!

However:

Do it Squeaky!  But also, increase the challenge a little, you choose a property too, one that you know is fair, but that you are quick at.
This will definitely become a newsworthy topic!!

"VINNIE GILES"  - VS - SQUEAKY "JACK RUSSELL" COLEMAN


ps.  I'm surprised the mods haven't locked this for going way off topic!
But seing as all the mods are caught up in it.....I'm going to tell on them;D

COMING TO A FORUM NEAR YOU

B-r-i-n-g   i-t   o-n!

[jeff1]

I am very sorry to all you guy's, I should have never started this thread.
I never meant for arguments to break out. I was just giving you my own personal opinion, of one wfp job that I lost out too.

The fact that I thought the job was an excellent job, had no bearings to who was better, or who was faster. Like squeaks says there may be jobs that are crap with wfp, but equally like Ian said, there are jobs that are crap traditionaly aswell. Who really give's a s***

like I said in my first thread, if I had to produce results like the one I lost, it would have taken me double the time it normally takes, I have been a wc for eight years, and have had very few complaints about my work, for this reason I class my self as a good wc, But i know there are dozens of wc out there who are better than me, and I'm not to proud too admit it. and I think we all have our own personal opinions, of what is and what isn't the best, each and every one of you guy's out there, are good at something.

My own personal reason for changing to wfp is not only for HSE, but for the money, you guy's on here tell me I can double my money, Hey who doesn't want more money, I know I do.

Is there's any chance that you guy's can drop this mops at Dawn, duel, shake hands, and go to Tesco's cafe and have a cuppa  (For me) It will make me feel better for starting this thread.
If you do drop it Thank you both in advance. and I mean Thanks

[JohnL]

yep, I second that!  and its not your fault Jeff, this has obviously been simmering for a time. Its a shame the Mods didnt shut it ages ago!


JohnL

[windows_chepstow]

yep, I second that!  and its not your fault Jeff, this has obviously been simmering for a time. Its a shame the Mods didnt shut it ages ago!


JohnL

John,

I don't think the post got out of hand or offensive in anyway - it's arguably off topic - but not really either since the original post was about a ladder user losing a job to a WFP user; due to the quality of work produced.

Squeaky may have been 'ganged-up' upon, but he did ask for it; you can't go  making biased and inexperienced statements that are incorrect and that are derogatory to other fellow window cleaners. 

I must admit I took offence to one or two of his comments.  I'm allowed to take some pride in my work too; mod or not.

If Squeaky only has 16 days worth of work a month, that equates to around four days per week, he's got the time to fit in Ian's challenge; no excuses.  It seems fair enough to me.

I think this is a good thread and educational from the point of view that it would give someone new to the trade different perspectives of different methods that are used to clean windows; albiet in a round-about-way.

I also think we ought to lay off Squeaky though. I think we've all learnt a little something here.

[Ian_Giles]

Yeah, ease up on Rog, I'm not doing this to have a pop at him directly, only to show that a standard WFP user is as quick if not quicker than a very quick trad user, and that the quality of the work produced is also of an equal standard.

And as PJ sugests, let Roger pick an account that he is also very quick at, I'm also happy to accept that challenge too.
The only proviso being that the windows and frames are in good order and not oxidized as we all know that is the achilles heel of WFP.

And lets face it, as Tosh says, this would also provide a fascinating comparison of two methods, it is also being done with a proven WFP hater too, any faults in the standard of finish I can provide will be exposed on here for all to read.

And don't panic forum users...Squeaks and myself are not at daggers drawn here, we are good mates

Ian

[jeff1]

If You two guys are adamant, about the challenge, and as you say it will be educational to new comers to the trade.

Then why don't you make it official for everyone to see!

Take along an official Judge, and a video camera, with camera man, Put a link on this post for everyone to see the callange, then add a poll for everyone to add there vote and own opinions? (without all the toil as this thread)

If one guy starts first, on a stop watch record the time,Then the official Judge to judge the results, and record them, Then the second guy takes his turn following the same rules
This way can be  a fair and unbiased challenge. I'am sure official rule's can be made up before the callange by the guy's on this forum? My idea's are just for a guide, ask Terry Burrows on rules.

I am really chuffed to see Ian and Rog are still good buddies,
I was begining to think they were going to beat the c*** out of each other with wc weapons.

[JohnL]

If the same house is used doesnt the first guy cleaning it  make it easier for the second guy? 

       


JohnL

[jeff1]

  : : :
Half a house each, decided by Ian, Rog and the Judge.

[Ian_Giles]

No, the job isn't easier for the WFP 'er to do afterwards, these windows are cleaned every month and they stay pretty clean to begin with.

Also, as WFP will be following trad, WFP has to cope with soap residue left behind from the trad clean.
This isn't much of course, buth there IS a film left on the glass and you do have to spend a little more time on such windows.

So you don't need half a house each.

Timing the job is easy, stopwatch starts from the moment you step out of your vehicle, to the moment you step back into it after you have completed the job.

Has to be that as with WFP that is a component of the job that takes distinctly more time than trad.

But video?? ??

Well I suppose for inexperienced newbies it would be of interest to them as they could watch the technique of experienced window cleaners.
But it would be about as exciting as watching paint dry!!

We wouldn't need official scrutineers, I'd be happy for Roger to Scrutinise my work (he's a WFP hater and will find the tiniest of faults) and I'll check his results.

Tosh can oversee things merely to ensure there is a 3rd party there to do the timing and to confirm any faults pointed out by either Rog or myself.

I think it would be really interesting myself.

This wouldn't be about setting record times for cleaning a bungalow, it is to show that WFP and trad can both deliver PROVABLY good results, and that even on something as simple as a low level bungalow, WFP is as quick as Trad.

It isn't just Squeaks that says it's a waste of time using WFP on either ground floor windows or bungalows.

Ian

[jeff1]

Hi Ian
You say it is as interesting as watching paint dry? It probably is,to you? but like you said, you would be helping the inexperienced or new comer to wfp,and also the new traditional wc,
you did say in another post about it also being educational. isnt that what this forum is about, helping each other? and most of you guy's on here do a fantastic job.
Go one step further for us, and put it on video, and when people like myself say how do you do this,or how do you do that? you can refer them to yours and Ians Link, to a video.

Just my thoughts  :

[windows_chepstow]

I think the number of excuses and lack of an acceptance from Squeaky must mean he's declined the 'squeegies-at-dawn duel'.

It's a shame though, as I think it would've been interesting, regardless of who won or lost.  I don't think anyone would've lost face in the end; not with a decent gentlemanly explanation.

I was quite looking forward to sending pics and a write-up of the event to PWC Mag; shame!

Anyway, enough 'Squeaky bashing', he's a nice guy in real life; I'd prefer it if any future threads refered to the original post.

It was this:

Post by Jeff1:

I have had this customer for seven years now, and today I started to clean his windows, (but i noticed them sparkling)and out he came as usual, how are you mr Rob, just like i always say, I'm not to good was his reply, and I also have some bad news for you?

With this I climed down my ladder, and he began to explane, that his mate next door,who has just had his house done up, called in a local firm after the work was finished to clean the property, and the windows, he was so impressed with the results of the windows that he told my customer, my customer checked them out, and he to was impressed, he got them to do his, he said he had no complaints about my work,and I always did a good job,

but even I must admit, if that is the results of wfp,there is no way I could match it in the same time. I told him that I to am changing over in the next few months, and he said well when you do I'll have you back.
If I am quite honest with you guy's, I realy didn't mind loosing out to wfp,after seeing the results,and knowing that I to will be changing over to wfp.
they also did inside, and he told me they had some sort of spray thing, what would of that been? could it have been a normal spray bottle with pure water in?

This was the first work that I had seen by wfp, so are all your results the same? do they all dry to a sparkling shine, even after there first clean. your comments on this would be most welcome?
These were the dreaded leaded type windows

[Sir Squeaky]

To be honest Tosh, I'm not totally against it.

I just don't think there's a fair way of doing it, and whoever came out worst would have plenty of genuine excuses.

Whoever went second would have an obvious advantage.
Cleaning off "soap residue" will not give any chance of spots or runs like dirt and grease would, nor would a squeegee leave any lines either.

As Ian said, clean sills.
The first person cleans them, the second person has nothing much to do.

Spiders, bird muck, cobwebs.....the list goes on.
It's always going to be much harder for person A, regardless of checking these things out first.

Rog.

[Moderator David@stives]

Ok Let Ian go first i am sure he wont mind 

Dave

[Simply Clean Windows]

why doesnt one do it one month,and then the other do it the month after,at least that way there is no advantage of going first or second.