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Przemek Jersz

  • Posts: 25
priceing up-help!!
« on: September 20, 2016, 03:29:53 pm »
hi i need to price a a retirement homes complex, its about 940 windows all together on ground , first and some on second floor , what is the best way to price for the job? need cleaning every 3 months

chris turner

  • Posts: 1492
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 04:52:52 pm »
A quick and easy way I price up large jobs is figure out roughly how long it will take. The best way to do this is break the building down into smaller chunks. You say its 3 floors so will be a similar size to townhouses. I clean alot of townhouses, they average 12 windows and take me 20 mins, with the most difficult windows being the tops.
Well 940 windows is the equivalent of cleaning 78 townhouses, at 20 mins a pop your looking at 26 hours of continuous labour to clean the lot.
Now you know it's roughly 26 hours (1 man) labour you have a good basis to work from. Add breaks, travel time etc and your looking at 30 plus hours work. I would charge 4 days work at the top end of your usual earnings.
Not sure what area your from but I would say 1k would be about right, maybe slightly more.
But that's just me, someone else may have a better formula.

Tosh

  • Posts: 2964
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 05:07:04 pm »
I think  that price is pretty close to the mark. I reckon you'd knocked the job out in three days though but the price would be the same.
*A HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE - THE SHORT STORY* 'Hydrogen is a light, odorless gas, which, given enough time, turns into people.'

Nick Day

Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 06:28:35 pm »
What the guys above have told you is spot on, I suspect the facts are very different.
This is how some price. Allow about 10 seconds on the glass per window and at the most 30 seconds per window in total for moving around the building.
This works out to at most a day. I suspect a quote of £200 might get it but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.
Commercial window cleaning is frightening place to be price wise.

Przemek Jersz

  • Posts: 25
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 07:42:56 pm »
thanks for all your help guys, i was going to price it at £1175, 940 windows i think i will spend on average 3min per one ( ground floot will be quicker, top floor slower plus time to move around ) thats is 47 hours at £25per hour =£1175
does it sound about right?
p.s I've only started my business on the 1st of september so not the fastest guy in town--yet ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 07:54:55 pm »
It would be interesting to hear the outcome of this one.

I think Nick is probably right in his assumption. Some employed cleaner/contractor will be put on the job earning the minium wage with an impossible to achieve target time.  He will invoice the company who he worked for and they won't pay his bill.

Tbh I wouldn't be too dissappointed if I didn't get it if I were you. Can you produce current liability insurance and also provide a RAMS assessment?

Also, have you got the water to do the job?

As you are new to window cleaning, I think you have to learn to crawl first before you run (not meant derogatorily.) I would be sticking to smaller stuff.  Cleaning that number of windows will 'kill' you. You need time to build your muscles up to do that.
.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Susan Dean (1stclean)

  • Posts: 2064
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 07:59:43 pm »
at 1175 you wont get it ! we just quoted one similer size and didn't get the job at 460+vat as we worked it out as a days work foe two men

Przemek Jersz

  • Posts: 25
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 09:17:33 pm »
at 1175 you wont get it ! we just quoted one similer size and didn't get the job at 460+vat as we worked it out as a days work foe two men
this i currently done in two days by team of 5! so i was thinking about 2weeks work for me, let see what happen;)

simonr

  • Posts: 1215
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 10:35:35 pm »
A quick and easy way I price up large jobs is figure out roughly how long it will take. The best way to do this is break the building down into smaller chunks. You say its 3 floors so will be a similar size to townhouses. I clean alot of townhouses, they average 12 windows and take me 20 mins, with the most difficult windows being the tops.
Well 940 windows is the equivalent of cleaning 78 townhouses, at 20 mins a pop your looking at 26 hours of continuous labour to clean the lot.
Now you know it's roughly 26 hours (1 man) labour you have a good basis to work from. Add breaks, travel time etc and your looking at 30 plus hours work. I would charge 4 days work at the top end of your usual earnings.
Not sure what area your from but I would say 1k would be about right, maybe slightly more.
But that's just me, someone else may have a better formula.

thats the best bit of pricing help i've ever seen,
most say work out how long etc etc  but if you could do that you wouldn't be asking would you ,
 pure quality there mate i'm copying it down & sticking it in the van , nice one

David Beecroft

  • Posts: 300
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2016, 11:02:49 pm »
a simple £1 a window comes to almost the same figure and you don't need a degree in maths to work it out.
I must be missing something?  ???

8weekly

Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2016, 06:19:39 am »
a simple £1 a window comes to almost the same figure and you don't need a degree in maths to work it out.
I must be missing something?  ???
Lots of townhouses I do have 4 Windows on the front and 5 on the back, does that make them £9?

lal

  • Posts: 1113
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2016, 07:58:50 am »

 As Spruce pointed out, how much water do you have available,  Nick was estimating time cleaning each window, but you
 have to also factor in how dirty are these 900+ windows, bird muck etc etc, all adds time on to cleaning, especially with
 that amount of windows.

 Lal

Phil J

  • Posts: 638
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2016, 08:21:50 am »
What  about access, are there any issues? Balconies, plant pots  on window ledges, flower beds, bushes  to get your hoses caught on, parked  cars?  All the little things that add time to the job. Work it out on a day rate and put your price in, if you don't get it don't worry too much and move on!

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2016, 08:25:03 am »
so i was thinking about 2weeks work for me, let see what happen;)

Are they providing hot meals and a bed for the night?
One of the Plebs

jwplasterers

Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2016, 08:26:36 am »
I would charge £470.00 for that I clean something similar to it

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2016, 08:49:35 am »
at 1175 you wont get it ! we just quoted one similer size and didn't get the job at 460+vat as we worked it out as a days work foe two men
this i currently done in two days by team of 5! so i was thinking about 2weeks work for me, let see what happen;)

This is when things start to go wrong with a quote.

Chris Turner has broken it down into bite size peices and has 78 townhouses at 20 minutes each. Going flat out with no breaks = 26 hours.  Whilst I think this is an excellent way of doing it, my question is; how much extra time do you allow for breaks (moving van etc), because this is included in the time it takes to clean the complex? Another 26 hours?

(For residential we estimate that half the day is spent actually cleaning windows and the other half is spent on the detail - drying doors, unpacking, packing up, writing out tickets, collecting money, etc. On commercial we estimate that we spend about 75 - 80% of our time on the glass and 20 -25% on the detail depending on the job. We have one commercial job where 40% of our time is cleaning windows and 60% is hose management, unlocking and relocking gates etc.)

You say it takes 5 workers 2 days to complete the job. So in effect this is a 10 day job for one person. We don't know how quickly that these workers are working. According to my feeling and Chris' formula we need 54 hours to do the job - providing you are fit and able. So that tells me the gang should be able to do it in less time.

If that's the case then the complex's management can see that the 5 guys are 'taking their time' and so would feel they are paying for this. They won't consider they need to refill the van/vans with water etc. They just see them disappearing down the road.

I would expect, as in most commercial job quotes, they are trying to get a cheaper price and using you as a lever. If your quote comes in cheaper they will approach the company involved to renegotiate their quote. If you are more expensive they will laugh at you. We've experience this many times. They also lie to get your interest hooked. (We had one recently, job to be done every 2 weeks - turned out he wanted the job to be done every 2 or 3 months or when dirty. Time waster).

In cases like this, management want a quality job but only want to pay for a slop and dash job. I would have asked them what I was up against money wise as well. You will get a ball park knowing they have purposely cut the price. In other words they will tell you £400 when in fact they charge £500.
If the management had told me £200 I would immediatley tell them to stick with the current cleaning contractors.

In your quote I would recommend you be very specific about the time schedule you are quoting on. If its once every 3 months then state that. Then state that an adjustment will add to the cost of cleans. So a 4 monthly clean will cost £x and 6 monthly will cost £xx.

.

Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2016, 08:56:01 am »
What  about access, are there any issues? Balconies, plant pots  on window ledges, flower beds, bushes  to get your hoses caught on, parked  cars?  All the little things that add time to the job. Work it out on a day rate and put your price in, if you don't get it don't worry too much and move on!

Good points to consider.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

chris turner

  • Posts: 1492
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2016, 09:33:50 am »
Water consumption is another very important factor. A 300-400 litre tank will not get you very far on a job of this scale so unless you have a bigger tank you need to consider if you can produce water on site.

JandS

  • Posts: 4271
Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2016, 09:51:35 am »
Remember that your doing it on your own....5 men doing it should be far quicker man hours wise because they won't be as tired.
Impossible done straight away, miracles can take a little longer.

SeanK

Re: priceing up-help!!
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2016, 10:58:06 am »
a simple £1 a window comes to almost the same figure and you don't need a degree in maths to work it out.
I must be missing something?  ???
Lots of townhouses I do have 4 Windows on the front and 5 on the back, does that make them £9?

No I'm sure you get £50 for them, (roll eyes ) I have nine window town houses where you would make a killing at £9 a pop
as long as you have enough of them to keep van moves and traveling to a minimum, you certainly wouldn't charge that if it
was a one off in the middle of nowhere.
Then I have others where even though they still have nine windows some of them because of the size or type might count as two or three.
The price wont be solely about the number of windows but the shape, size, type, handiness of access and so on, but there will also
be benefits to make you more competitive such as having all the work in one place, that said good luck getting the work from
a nursing home, I clean the property of a wealthy Nursing home owner and have priced all four nursing homes with no success
and believe me I'm nowhere near Lord weekly's pricing bracket.
In her own words unlike her own property she just wants a cheap acceptable job done from somebody with the right paperwork and can get it for a lot less than I want.