[Paul Beard]

Hello.

Been awhile since I've posted. !!

Well it happened, fell off my ladder doing my normal trad round over the weekend. ! Was lucky I came away with only some bruises.
So it's really made me think.  It's time to add wfp into my round. My life is worth a little bit more than a 4 bed !
Reading lots into systems that are on the market. Difficult to see the woods through the trees. !
I'm looking for a small system 250l tank. But my budget is around 1k. But I would rather seek help from all you "professionals"   
Before buying something that could ruin by customer base.
Most of my customers didn't want wfp. I'm assuming bad application and cowboys where to blame for this type of thinking.

Thanks guys.

[Tom White]

Have you a van already?  If so what's it's payload capacity?

And I would recommend you go DIY with your budget and you should comfortably be able to get a decent system put together I should think.  Well you might need a bit more; it depends.

But the first question is your vehicle.  What is it?

[nathankaye]

Ive been window cleaning for over 15 yrs and switched just over a yr ago and had probably same reservations as you (most who switched perhaps did).
The reality is, i lost 2 customers on the switch over anf yet gain soooo many more because of using wfp.

Your absolutely right! You no doubt have picked up trad work due to poor wfp handling by yhe cleaner. This is how i explained to my customers in simple terms. They expect me to do a good job and if i didnt, they (the cust) did not blame my mop or squeegee but myself! The same applies to wfp, dont blame the equipment but the user!

Once youve sorted van. Go for a diy system and filter your water into a storage tank if your property allows. Pure freedom have good start up setups etc. HOWEVER, purchase your poles from Gardiner and dont waste your money on fibre glass nor hybrid poles but Carbon! You will not regret it!

Be prepared for hard work tho, its a painful learning curve when you come to use wfp for first couple of times. For instance, my smallest round was a days work by trad. It took me 2 days to complete on wfp for first time. To clean all frames and eradicate yrs of traditional cleaning solutions from off the glass, seals n frames. Therefore if youve not already done so, search thru the topics on here, theres loads of good advice to help you along.
All the best and you wont regret making this jump!

[Smurf]

Sounds like you had a very luck escape Paul from getting badly injured or worse.
Have you had a go at trad pole work as might be another option to consider first before going down the wfp route?

[the king]

your gunna need at least 350l tank ide go 500l my self so then u need to think van and size payload ect ur gunna need
gardner slx 22 and maby a biger pole if u have higher windows that u cant get at the minit
shurflo pump
flow controler
tds meater
ro or di depending on your tds ! anything under 100 tds then go double  di only
hose real
so ur buget of 1k could get eaten up very quick

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

500 is a min for a tank we find to do a good full days work ,

 we have 4 home made kitted out vans   that are great and never let us down , buy as much new as you can and get a real auto ele. to wire in your split charger , 1k should get it all done and leave you a good few quid to buy a slx25 new as well this will be the dearest thing of it all but well worth it

[SeanK]

Anybody that's tells you all problems/poor quality with wfp are down to the user hasn't a clue what they're talking about,
I could take you to a new build estate tomorrow with over 400 properties where you couldn't get a decent finish on any of them without spending four times as long as it will take you traditionally.
That said there are properties where it works perfectly and until you try your never going to know.
If you have an established round with a decent income you don't want to be faffing about with a diy system, find a good supplier
and get them to fit one for you with a bit of training thrown in, avoid the overpriced gimmicky suppliers and your not going to spend a lot more.
Practice on your own property plus friends/family just to get a feel for the equipment and then take it out on your round,
take it slow and check the properties again when the windows have dried for problems.
Thing is there is just too much contradicting information on this subject both on video and forums so your going to have to use
your own judgment on what works and how to problem solve, but at the end of the day its far from rocket science.

[Paul Beard]

Hello.

The van I've got is a ford transit connect 220lx
He biggest problem I've got is I'm only working on my window round every Saturday and Sunday. 600 a month can't justify spending 1000's on a new wfp system. 
I would love to jump into it full time. But the bill's don't pay themselves.
So in reality I'm looking at a 1k system to start using on my round and hopefully start to take on more work longer term.
Nothing is easy. But I do appreciate your comments.

[dazmond]

id just buy a backpack,barrels,SLX 25,fold away trolley DI vessels,etc then if your a weekend part timer and just do the tops WFP.it d cost you  less than £1000.

[Smurf]

Maybe this might be of interest to get you started?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Window-Cleaning-Trolley-PURE-FREEDOM-Complete-Set-Up-/162165712652?hash=item25c1d4670c:g:ZcoAAOSwOVpXdWxI

Personally instead of using containers & having to hump a trolley and water about I would look out for a used wydale type tank as can pick them up dirt cheap. Mod the pf trolley inlet so can draw directly from the lid of the van tank. Then just add a hose reel so now you have the best of both.

Run the ro/di static at home into water butts or a cheapy ibc tank/s and transfer the pure when needed directly into the van tank using a submersable pump.

That's how I got started into wfp work as soon found out was the easiest way using a pf trolley static in the van and still use it to this day.

Regarding the unger 24' pole again is not the best pole to have but will still earn you dosh until you are in the posistion to buy a carbon slx type pole.

[Smudger]

DIY system all the way straightforward to fit and as you've built it you will know how to fix it you will also need to know your water tds and are you going di only or will you need an ro system
Darran 

[Nick Day]

id just buy a backpack,barrels,SLX 25,fold away trolley DI vessels,etc then if your a weekend part timer and just do the tops WFP.it d cost you  less than £1000.

Totally agree with Dazmond.

[Smurf]

Wfp tops, trad bottoms   

Hmmm... not many continue to do that in the real world nick especially with awkward hard to reach bottoms even working 2 days a week. I wonder how long that would last once Paul has got the hang of wfp work? Not long I'm thinking as can be a real pain in the arse to use both methods on one job.

Likewise if like most will soon get fed up using backpack/trolleys too.

Build yourself a diy van mount on the cheap and just tell em you’re not going to use ladders/steps etc anymore due to H&S reasons... Set the pump on a decent flow and away you go....Sorted well sort off   

[nathankaye]

Ive never used excuse of health n safety when i switched. But then in past i spent 6yrs in sales and so i just sell new way to them. Sell the benefits to them. If your confident in your ability and the product, then your 95% there. Depending which sex u speak to,  difference of power tools n normal tools or hand washing to a washing machine, bla bla bla etc.

I was going to go down line of trolley n blade downstairs.  I was adviced not to, as most switch to a van system as soon as they can. Im really really glad i listened. After now a yr on wfp, im filled with dread of thinking what i would be like if i didnt listen!
A friend of mine is keen for trolley system, filled with all same ideas as i had. Hes coming with me for a day to see how its done n gonna talk benefits of not lugging bucket, mops, squeegees, barrels of water, stopping to fill up, stopping to switch to traditional, dragging the trolley whilst holding pole n carrying a bucket etc if your work is all close nit.

[Smurf]

I would tell em also "I had a very narrow escape and could have been killed just for the sake of earning a few shillings  so fook that from now on. I now will be waving a stick about with a brush on the end and get water everywhere that will leave the windows wet. If you don't like it then tuff as I'm not going back to using ladders again.... Oh and ladders are now banned don't you know" well by me anyway   

[Jonny 87]

Anybody that's tells you all problems/poor quality with wfp are down to the user hasn't a clue what they're talking about,
I could take you to a new build estate tomorrow with over 400 properties where you couldn't get a decent finish on any of them without spending four times as long as it will take you traditionally.
That said there are properties where it works perfectly and until you try your never going to know.
If you have an established round with a decent income you don't want to be faffing about with a diy system, find a good supplier
and get them to fit one for you with a bit of training thrown in, avoid the overpriced gimmicky suppliers and your not going to spend a lot more.
Practice on your own property plus friends/family just to get a feel for the equipment and then take it out on your round,
take it slow and check the properties again when the windows have dried for problems.
Thing is there is just too much contradicting information on this subject both on video and forums so your going to have to use
your own judgment on what works and how to problem solve, but at the end of the day its far from rocket science.

I'm still yet to find one of these new build houses that you keep banging on about.  Got a feeling there only in your area.

One things for sure I'm Never moving to Ireland. 

[AuRavelling79]

As you have a van already I would put a tank in it.

I went from trad to wfp in 2005 (hand to mouth income, no spare dollars, kids at home blah blah) - started with a trolley out of my car (estate). Then put a small tank in the back (175L) and a reel.

Realised from this that a reel and tank are the best way to go if you possibly can but needed bigger but couldn't afford it. Finally bit the bullet and got a new doblo van on lease purchase and self built a 400L system.

What have I learned? Go for a tank and reel straight away - certainly if you have a van.

If you are working £600 a month trad you will find that you will do that in about 65% of the time once you are up and running with wfp. So you will be able to do £900/£1000 in the same time.

Stick a 400L tank in the back - I'd go flat wydale type personally.

Tank, pump, reel, pole. That's it!

What's your TDS? If it's low then start off with D.I. only and get an RO later.

Have you a drive to pull up on and room for a static tank?

[Tom White]

As you have a van already I would put a tank in it.

I went from trad to wfp in 2005 (hand to mouth income, no spare dollars, three kids at home blah blah) - started with a trolley out of my car (estate). Then put a small tank in the back (175L) and a reel.

Realised from this that a reel and tank are the best way to go if you possibly can but needed bigger but couldn't afford it. Finally bit the bullet and got a new doblo van on lease purchase and self built a 400L system.

What have I learned? Go for a tank and reel straight away - certainly if you have a van.

If you are working £600 a month trad you will find that you will do that in about 65% of the time once you are up and running with wfp. So you will be able to do £900/£1000 in the same time.

Stick a 400L tank in the back - I'd go flat wydale type personally.

Tank, pump, reel, pole. That's it!

What's your TDS? If it's low then start off with D.I. only and get an RO later.

Have you a drive to pull up on and room for a static tank?

^^^^^ Good post, Gold.

[Tom White]

Look on ebay for 2nd had RO/DI systems and tanks.

[8weekly]

Anybody that's tells you all problems/poor quality with wfp are down to the user hasn't a clue what they're talking about,
I could take you to a new build estate tomorrow with over 400 properties where you couldn't get a decent finish on any of them without spending four times as long as it will take you traditionally.
That said there are properties where it works perfectly and until you try your never going to know.
If you have an established round with a decent income you don't want to be faffing about with a diy system, find a good supplier
and get them to fit one for you with a bit of training thrown in, avoid the overpriced gimmicky suppliers and your not going to spend a lot more.
Practice on your own property plus friends/family just to get a feel for the equipment and then take it out on your round,
take it slow and check the properties again when the windows have dried for problems.
Thing is there is just too much contradicting information on this subject both on video and forums so your going to have to use
your own judgment on what works and how to problem solve, but at the end of the day its far from rocket science.

I'm still yet to find one of these new build houses that you keep banging on about.  Got a feeling there only in your area.

One things for sure I'm Never moving to Ireland. 

My experience is that I never have any problems with new windows. Easy jobs.